OBXT w/LGT Struts and OB Springs?

Howdy. Long time stalker, infrequent poster.

 

Currently have 05 OBXT down for TB maintenance and radiator replacement and I'm going to do suspension while it's 'off duty'. As a little background, its a 5EAT Limited Silver on Black. Current upgrades are EVO 16G, Cobb AP, Perrin Catless UP, Perrin Turbo Inlet, 06 center console.

 

Wanting to lower the wagon about 1-1/2". BC coils are an option, but I'm 41 and I'm past the point in life where I kidney damage is second to handling. If anyone had comments/experience that they're a) not that bad and b) of reasonable quality then I may still consider. Looking to achieve BMW firmness as compared to stock which I'd classify as Lexus floaty.

 

That said, looking at perhaps LGT KYB's for struts. As I understand it, the LGT's have a mounting point that's about 1-1/2" lower. Would coupling the LGT struts with OBXT springs get me to my goal? I've searched and not seen anyone attempt this nor have I seen anything that indicates it can't be done. I'm assuming I'd need to keep OB top hats and get LGT bumps. I'll be doing f/r bushings as well.

No offense but there are TONS of posts asked/answered on this exact question including this section.

I did find a lot of LGT suspension swap posts. But all of them were full spring/strut swaps. My question was regarding the mix of LGT struts with OEM OB springs. I did also find this post showing the spring length comparison which has me maybe a little concerned about the rear coil fitment. But then this post for a 2G OB shows that it can be done on the previous generation, but without much detail about ride height, alignment, tophats, etc, nor any specific issues with the 3G OB.

 

Conversely, would there be the option of going with 2G OB Eibach Springs on 3G OB struts? This would probably be the best scenario as it would preserve tire clearance. Not sure of the ride quality, however, on the Eibachs...

 

The trouble I'm having is that I find a lot of folks who have researched options and then gone to either a 100% LGT setup or coilovers.

So I guess you'd be on your own. Something tells me you'd be "cramming" the springs onto those struts. But I have to admit, that "spring length" thread had me wondering about the fronts.

 

I say we figure out where KTM lives and steal his Bilstein BTS's, and see what he does to recoup. It ain't that easy. But a member named Easton seems to have hit a pretty good "2nd best" option: from memory, he has Legacy GT wagon springs and Spec B shocks. Bilstein HD's and those springs might work too. In both cases, spacers between struts and body (upper mount) are probably needed. In effect, between the shorter (Bilstein) strut and the spacer, its basically just moving the spring further down the strut assemby, but same effect as the original longer OB strut. So they are using a SHORTER SPRING with the effectively LONG STRUT.

 

after reading the thread about Baja springs on Gen 2 Outbacks, I believe the Gen 2 springs are softer and therefore sit lower than our Gen 3 springs.

 

I have a little experience with Bilsteins on the rear, and hope to get them on the front soon, but I am NOT a fan of KYB twin-tube shocks (OEM or aftermarket) as spec'd for Outbacks. I would be skeptical of the Legacy KYB's being any better.

 

actually, you should also read this: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/koni-adjustable-yellows-installed-2007-outback-3-0r-193232.html?t=193232&highlight=koni+3.0r

I just got done shelling out a good amount of money on a custom-fabricated coilover developed by a suspension guru (understatement). When he lifted my Koni/Swift combo on his lift, we found that the rear's were resting on the bumpstops, and the front springs were almost entirely compressed. All of these parts were LGT wagon specific (sedan and wagon use same fronts). In short, it looked awesome lowered, but it was essentially rendered suspensionless.

Fenominal, thanks for the input!

 

Just to clarify, you had lowered LGT springs on LGT struts on an OB, correct? So the lowered spring perch would bring you down about 1.5" and the springs probably another 1.2". That seems like a double-lowering and doesn't surprise me that it would put her on the stops. Out of curiosity were you using LGT bumps or OB stock bumps?

So I'm now leaning toward trying these 02-04 OB lowering springs on my 05 with 05 struts. This should drop me down a nice 1.2". Is there anything that I'm missing in my understanding as to why this wouldn't work? I understand that the spring rate my be slightly different between 2G and 3G OB... I can shim slightly to level, and add/change F/R sways to tune handling. If this works, it would be half the price of BC coils, will be cheap/easy to replace the OB struts later, and retain close to stock ride quality, will provide proper tire clearance, and will look aggressive without being slammed.

Fenominal, thanks for the input!

 

Just to clarify, you had lowered LGT springs on LGT struts on an OB, correct? So the lowered spring perch would bring you down about 1.5" and the springs probably another 1.2". That seems like a double-lowering and doesn't surprise me that it would put her on the stops. Out of curiosity were you using LGT bumps or OB stock bumps?

 

Nope, I incorrectly used OB strut bodies to house the Koni LGT strut inserts and LGT Swift lowering springs. None of the bumpstop's were changed or altered. I do believe that Mueller shaved my bumpstops.

Now we might be in a vicious circle. Better call JDMhub to check availability before you get too excited. i think this was covered elsewhere (see spring length comparison thread), I'm surprised they didn't remove them from their site. OTOH, let us know if they do have them.

So I guess you'd be on your own. Something tells me you'd be "cramming" the springs onto those struts. But I have to admit, that "spring length" thread had me wondering about the fronts.

 

I say we figure out where KTM lives and steal his Bilstein BTS's, and see what he does to recoup. It ain't that easy. But a member named Easton seems to have hit a pretty good "2nd best" option: from memory, he has Legacy GT wagon springs and Spec B shocks. Bilstein HD's and those springs might work too. In both cases, spacers between struts and body (upper mount) are probably needed. In effect, between the shorter (Bilstein) strut and the spacer, its basically just moving the spring further down the strut assemby, but same effect as the original longer OB strut. So they are using a SHORTER SPRING with the effectively LONG STRUT.[/QUOTE]

LOL it ain't me you gotta pry the BTS bit from it's my wife. I do still have the Megan CO's and recently got replacement hardware to use with the new inserts.

 

Check this thread from OB.com, lots of great info on spring/strut/hybrid topics: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/81-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension/28368-2005-2009-outback-suspension-faq.html

 

After trying a number of options including Baja stuff on the OBXT if you wanna lower it use LGT bits with spacers to dial in height. Or luck into some BTS stuff and some extra $$$ like I did.

 

Or as I have come to decide buy a LGT wagon. Lowering an OB seems counter-intuitive unless it's for the manual tranny options after 2005 MY.

Thanks KTM.

 

Starting with you last point, I don't disagree with you on 'just getting a LGT' statement. If one didn't own an OBXT a clean sheet LGT would be the way to start. In my case I already have an OBXT and have put $ into it due to a bad turbo. So rather than sell / re-buy I figure I'll just stick with a known quantity and build on what I have. I'm not looking to make it a trackable vehicle, just mod a little from what I have. I have seen some nice, tastefully modded OBXT's here and the uniqueness does add to the look IMO.

 

I have also read and posted on the subaruoutback.org forum. Good stuff there too, but no solution for what I'm looking to do. The only solid solutions that are well documented are coilovers or LGT transplants. The coils are spending and impact the ride quality, and a true LGT transplant lowers the OBXT more than I desire.

 

That said, I'm most likely going to try and source the 04 Eibach springs and pair them with OB KYB struts and see where that gets me. Hopefully the 04 springs will mate with the 05 perches and give me the slight lowering that I'm looking for.

Well, the Eiback Pro Kit for the 02-04 OB has been discontinued. I have contacted every/all vendors that list the parts on their websites when doing a google search and can confirm that nobody has them. Now I'm regretting having already purchase the KYB struts... should've just bought the BC Coilovers and been done with it. Bummer.

 

from: http://legacygt.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3812869

 

he tried to order from JDMHub

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/official-lowered-outback-thread-180375p6.html

 

focus on posts 77 & 80

 

I have some Legacy wagon (OEM) struts & springs that soon may be up for sale

 

that BAC2 has some spacers to make all this more interesting for an Outback

 

or: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...ight=koni+3.0r

Well... I guess we're going to do a little experimenting here. Got the 02-04 OB Eibach springs (7712.140) ordered this morning. I found them at a number of online retailers (including JDM Hub and eBay). I ended up ordering from Stillen based upon free shipping and reputation.

 

Hopefully this will achieve the roughly 1-1/2" drop (catalog says 1.2") that I'm looking for.

 

My plan is to get the springs in hand first so that I can validate fitment prior to getting the other bits ordered. Stay tuned...

I confirmed over the weekend that the springs for the LGT and OBXT are different lengths and you could theoretically lower the OB by about an inch by swapping the LGTs in. Wouldn't recommended it though.

 

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Well, congratulations Oregon if you get those Eibachs and they work for you. I guess Bengineer & I just had bad timing.

Well, congratulations Oregon if you get those Eibachs and they work for you. I guess Bengineer & I just had bad timing.

 

Ugh. Well, I guess I have bad timing too... Stillen showed stock, but got an email the next day that they weren't available after all. Then tied Jegs and same thing. Then tried the pair on eBay and again, not available. That last one really surprised me as I couldn't believe that a vendor would list a part that wasn't available.

 

Anyway, back to the original topic I guess...

The OB spring will fit and the LGT but it's going to take some WORK to get the spring compressed enough to get the tophat on. We tried to do it and it's a PITA. You'd get about 1"-1.5" of drop this way, but you'd have one hell of a bouncy ride.

 

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Seriously, I wish we had more options for the Outback. I would suggest Pachilla & Easton as trailblazers. Get better dampers than the P.O.S. KYB's. Nothing against KYB in general, but for Outbacks, they s*ck. They refuse to bring out a monotube option for us, though they make a reasonable monotube (gas-a-just). Not that monotube is the only way to go, but IMHO, the Excel / GR2 s*cks for the Outback. Which leaves you with these options:

 

1) Bilsteins: rethink going to HD's

2) Koni: not monotube, but probably quality....and adjustable

3) Sachs

4) coilovers

5) Monroe or KYB Excel /GR2's (KYB for 05+ too soft in rear, KYB for 04- too harsh in rear)

 

Over the last 2 weeks, I have replaced the popular "chevrolet" approach: KYB aftermarket (05 front, 04 rear) with some oddball Bilsteins. I've had my Bilsteins dyno'ed, and will admit they are not perfect. But after this experience, I would suggest (I can't "recommend," but I will suggest) either the Bistein HD's, some spec B Bilstein's, or the Koni's.

 

If your roads are super smooth, the KYB's might be OK. But my Bisteins are better smoothing out bad roads; might not be as go-cart crisp, but definitely more liveable. So far, I really like the fronts but the rears are a mixed bag (though still better than the KYB's).

 

On smooth roads, the 05 front/04 rear KYB approach is fun; if the roads deteriorate, the consequences are brutal (not as much an exageration as you would hope).

 

My JDM Bilsteins are improvements. Based on dyno, I THINK HD's might be more harsh up front, but significantly better in the rear. Since I have accummulated various LGT, Spec B, Legacy and Outback springs as part of this experiment, I might try some softer springs in the rear. But I HOPE I never have to put the Excel/GR2's back on.

 

My overall mesaige is: Don't settle for KYB's unless your roads are smooth, or you're constantly loaded down in back. And in front, don't rush to replace the OEM unless with a different brand.

I am looking to do the exact same thing. I want to lower about 1.5" but don't want a stiff ride on Michigan's crappy roads. I was thinking I would improve handling with a lowered CG and improved suspension geometry (hopefully reduce the Ghostwalking effect). My original thought was using OEM Outback springs with OEM LGT struts, but maybe I am going in the wrong direction. Let me knowwhat you come up with.

Sways on the OBXT go a long way.

 

Also, you can try the LGT springs on the OBXT bits. It should give you the drop you're looking for, but you're going to need to pair the swap with new dampers.

 

I forgot I took pictures for comparison. LGTs on the left.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r268/No_Show/Subie/IMG_20121118_153213.jpg

 

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@two-tone: Thanks for the info...saved me some heartache trying to put OBXT springs on LGT struts!As far as the LGT springs on OBXT bits... you mentioned new dampeners. I'm assuming you mean the bump stops?

 

Thinking that LGT springs might be the better option right now. If anyone has some sitting around shoot me a message and/or post here.

 

@impatient: I'd love to get Bilstiens, but $$$$. I was hoping to get it done on a budget. If I approach the $1k mark I figure I might as well go with BC coils. Solves the ride height problem and from what I've read they are rider-friendly if you dial out the dampening. And they're rebuildable.

Very interested in this thread. I've also been looking for a solution for better handling but going at the lowest to stock legacy height. From my readings, I was about to go with stock legacy springs on the koni' inserts with spacers in both front and back to add height.

 

My main base of information started here, in the lowered outback thread and from there, it would expand as I saw pictures of outbacks with the heights I was looking for.

 

Lowered outback thread

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/official-lowered-outback-thread-180375.html

 

Here are some more threads I was interested in

OB2.5XT using bilsteins with jdm spec b front springs and regulary legacygt rear springs + spacers

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/obxt-bilstein-xt-167299p2.html

@two-tone: Thanks for the info...saved me some heartache trying to put OBXT springs on LGT struts!As far as the LGT springs on OBXT bits... you mentioned new dampeners. I'm assuming you mean the bump stops?

 

Thinking that LGT springs might be the better option right now. If anyone has some sitting around shoot me a message and/or post here.

 

@impatient: I'd love to get Bilstiens, but $$$$. I was hoping to get it done on a budget. If I approach the $1k mark I figure I might as well go with BC coils. Solves the ride height problem and from what I've read they are rider-friendly if you dial out the dampening. And they're rebuildable.

 

NP. I meant struts but, yes, you're going to want shorter bumpstops or going to need to trim the OB ones as a quick-fix.

 

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