Super Suby gets an ej22t?

Hello all!

 

I don't post here much, but I do lurk some and since I've decided to keep my 98 wagon and slowly upgrade it to where, in the long run, I'm putting 220+hp to the ground as well as braking, aesthetic, and suspension mods, I wanted to start a thread so my updates and questions could all be in one place.

 

Here's what I have got now:

 

-'98 Legacy L wagon. Phase II ej22, 237,000 miles on the odo. Great little motor with a bad tick on the front drivers side cylinder. Bad lifter?

-5MT that is getting replaced with another one this coming week because it is shot.

 

Parts that I have picked up for the build:

 

-ej22t of unknown condition other than that it turns. $160 bucks.

-Spoiler off of an outback, $40

-scooped hood off of the same outback, $80

-2000 RS bumper and beam-$140

 

I am very comfortable wrenching on my own stuff. I am doing a slow restomod on my '75 Toyota LandCruiser currently, as well having a boat and an '01 Dodge TD that I am always seeking more horsepower out of.

 

Where I really am going to need help is with the electrical and engine management side of this subaru build. I know almost nothing about these subjects- although I am learning as fast as I can!

 

Here are my questions-

 

-What's the best way to manage the electronics on the ej22t if I put it n my car? From what I have read, you are not technically supposed to put an OBD I engine into an OBD II car. At least in some states.

-Can I get around this with an AEM 4 ems?

-Should I look for 2.5d heads and a wrx ecu? If I put these together could I tie it into my legacy's harness as an OBD II? I know the heads flow better than the 2.2t's.

 

I daily drive this car (although I do have the others I can drive) so for now I am planning on fixing the trans and lifter while doing aesthetic, suspension, and braking mods, and build the motor and gather other necessary parts (Heads, ecu, etc) until I have everything I need to put the turbo motor in my car. (Including the knowledge)

 

Btw- I have been searching, but haven't found just a ton on exactly this situation. And what I have found, I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand the electrical end of it.

 

All suggestions and input are greatly appreciated! And also a shout out to granny and 98 leg wagon for their great builds! Very inspirational!

My car:http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/14/e3unyda2.jpg

-you'll have to run obd2 heads with a matching intake mani,

-you'll need to either grab a subframe from the 1st gen turbo legacys/wrx or notch yours to clear the different exhaust stuff

-engine management

-upgraded or at least new internals

-bigger fuel pump, 255lph

-ditch the vf11 turbo, it's 90° inlet is fragile as **** and once that goes, theyre getting hard to track down... td04/ stock wrx will be very similar, hold a bit more psi

 

but really, the best thing to do for an ej22t build is go here:

 

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/ or http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/

 

those guys have every single facet of the motor covered a million different ways

 

 

but your 2000 RS bumper isnt going to fit, and if you mold it on there and get it working, it looks like shit on a legacy so please, please save yourself all the trouble, ha

 

check out the stickies at the top of the 2nd gen forum for swap info and parts compatibility

Hey- thanks for the reply! I am spending some time on the other forums you mentioned for sure. Probably better join I guess!

 

What do you recommend for engine management? This is particularly where I am clueless.

 

I was planning to notch my cross member probably, and weld in a half piece of pipe for strengthening.

 

And you are thinking upgraded internals just because of the engines age?

 

As far as the bumper goes, I may not spend a ton of time on it, but this what I'm thinking:http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/15/3yzave3u.jpg don't know... I like the look!

I just can't see spending $400 on a jdm bumper- if you hear of a good deal I'm all ears!

well if you start building up the motor, you'll want some forged internals to handle the power, stock stuff will probably be good up to... maybe 8-10psi if you push it but with the extra stress on older stuff it may be a better idea so you dont have to pull out the motor later..

 

imo, you can make a much better looking bumper with much less work..for example an outback bumper bolts right on, a few guys have stuck lights in the opening by the plates and it looks pretty good, its your car so go for it, but if it fails or you end up not liking it at least you have a backup plan

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/second-gen-aftermarket-parts-and-upgrade-guide-superceded-147261.html

I thought that the ej22t had forged internals? I know it's a closed block... I Better double check!

 

And you know- I have seen a couple with OB bumpers. That I'd definitely a good option. Especially when they are painted the same color!

i meant upgraded stuff, wiseco pistons and rods, etc.

Got ya! Yeah- I may do just that given time and money! I'd like to!

I have a set of wiseco pistons for sale

I have a set of wiseco pistons for sale

 

Pm'ed ya...

So if I get the 2.5 heads, and an aem, this will work in my car so I still can have the CEL and OBD II? I understand I would have to tap the head for oil and coolant.

 

Does the aem tie into the cars ecu? Sorry if these are noob questions, I just am so unfamiliar with this kind of tuning/engine management that I'm having to learn the basics from the ground up.

what are your overall goals?

Here is a link that tells a novice a little more about what exactly an aem 4 and what the options are for connections, etc.: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2125400

 

My goals, as mentioned above, are to reliably put 200+hp to the ground. I want something that drives nice off of boost but can pull like crazy as the throttle goes down. It seems like a P&P might help with the overall package.

i guess i forgot to mention that, yeah, By using the 25d/20g heads, matching intake mani, and ECU.. you retain OBD2 status

 

then you'd merge the new harness into your existing one (or have iWire do it) so you can plug and play

 

that damn aem thing is spennnnnndyy. damn. are you dead set on using that?, alternatives like the Rallitek PP6 (these are getting scarce) or Greddy Emanage, both of which have been run as an engine management system for this same build so theres lots of documentation

 

and so long as you have the motor apart (which im assuming and hoping you'll be doing), definitely send the Camshafts to Delta Cams up here near Seattle, they have different stages that result beneficially to different things.. like a more torque-based grind as opposed to a more high-speed one.

No, I'm not set on the aem. unit at all. That is just the one that I've heard more about. I actually would love a cheaper option. I will look around for the ones that you mentioned.

 

Thank you for the info about the intake manifold as well as the heads. That helps clear a lot up.

 

And yes, I imagine that I will at least pull the heads off of this motor to see what it looks like inside. Probably the oil pan too.

The 22T rods are forged. The pistons are the weak point. The oil squirters can fall out so at least remove the pistons and inspect them. 205 heads are a good way to go. The you can use a stock wrx ecu for em. The 25d heads will require a standalone iirc. 20g heads can be run with a 22t ecu no problem and need the 20g intake mani as well as hard coolant lines and some other bits. All you need to know is over on bbslegacycentral.

The 22T rods are forged. The pistons are the weak point. The oil squirters can fall out so at least remove the pistons and inspect them. 205 heads are a good way to go. The you can use a stock wrx ecu for em. The 25d heads will require a standalone iirc. 20g heads can be run with a 22t ecu no problem and need the 20g intake mani as well as hard coolant lines and some other bits. All you need to know is over on bbslegacycentral.

 

 

I joined legacycentralbbs today. I'll start seeing what I can find.

 

I don't have the 22t ecu...

A 20g ecu will work as well. A 20g ecu has the advantage of being modified with a chip which is known as a 'robtune' since the guy that does it is Rob.

 

Do you have the complete engine? How about the first gen harness? The good news is that if you want to run a stock 22t or a 22t/20g hybrid you can find 22t and 20g ecus somewhat easily. You can use any stock non turbo first gen wiring harness as well to run it with a couple simple mods. I thought about doing this but I decided to go with the 205/22t combo for more power and the ability to tune.

A 20g ecu will work as well. A 20g ecu has the advantage of being modified with a chip which is known as a 'robtune' since the guy that does it is Rob.

 

Do you have the complete engine? How about the first gen harness? The good news is that if you want to run a stock 22t or a 22t/20g hybrid you can find 22t and 20g ecus somewhat easily. You can use any stock non turbo first gen wiring harness as well to run it with a couple simple mods. I thought about doing this but I decided to go with the 205/22t combo for more power and the ability to tune.

 

I do have the complete engine. All of the wiring on the engine is there I believe, but it was cut off at the engine, so no ecu.

 

A 22 T ECU wouldn't work anyway due to mission laws right? (OBD I too OBD II) I am not as familiar with the 20g. Is it OBD I Or OBD II?

 

Since I'm going to the work of doing this, being able to tune sounds good. But, money is a factor also.

 

I possibly found a Greddy Blue for sale. Would that work well with a 22T/25D set up? If I understand correctly, with the right harness, this could be plug and play , or soldered in. Is that correct?

I don't know enough about Greddy Blue to say. Someone will probably chime in.

 

As far as the emission law, you are likely correct. I forgot about that. However, state regulations vary. In my case it would be legal. Although my wagon is an OBDII vehicle, 95 was a transition year for OBDI or OBDII so either is acceptable in the state of Utah. If it was a 96 then I would have to have OBDII, or 'know a guy' that would pass me. The 20G is OBDI.

 

I understand money is a factor. I have also found out that these swaps are generally way more expensive than most of us would like to admit. Especially when you factor in all of the brake, trans, and suspension upgrades that will make the swap enjoyable and safe.

I never know where I'm going to wind up, so I would like to keep this legal. Since my car is the 98 I don't have the option of it being a crossover year! That would be a good reason to buy a 95 though!

 

And holy cow! You were right about Legacy Central! There is all kinds of information there!

 

Anyone know anything about the GReddy blue?

I don't know enough about Greddy Blue to say. Someone will probably chime in.

 

As far as the emission law, you are likely correct. I forgot about that. However, state regulations vary. In my case it would be legal. Although my wagon is an OBDII vehicle, 95 was a transition year for OBDI or OBDII so either is acceptable in the state of Utah. If it was a 96 then I would have to have OBDII, or 'know a guy' that would pass me. The 20G is OBDI.

 

I understand money is a factor. I have also found out that these swaps are generally way more expensive than most of us would like to admit. Especially when you factor in all of the brake, trans, and suspension upgrades that will make the swap enjoyable and safe.

 

 

Amen to that!!!

you stay OBD2 with OBD2 heads and IM...

 

forget using the 22t ECU

Like Justin said, heads/intake manifold/wiring/ECU all must match and that will determine OBD I or OBD II. This applies for all stock subaru engine swaps (EJ22T, EJ205, EJ20G, EJ255, EJ257, etc). Standalone you can do what ever you want pretty much lol

What about the legality of standalones? In my case I could use a Speak & Spell and as long as it passed the sniff test I'd be good, lol. I've heard of ecu emulators? Do they have an OBDII access port?

 

For simplicity and my lack of knowledge I chose a WRX ecu. I found a complete wiring harness and ecu for $250 (not bad). An STi ecu would work as well as long as you got the harness, proper heads and intake mani. Megasquirt is pretty powerful and inexpensive but you'd know your stuff if you got it to work.

 

25D heads would be sweet. Pretty easy to find and fairly cheap. It took me a while to find a nice set of 205 heads for a decent price.