Cooling Fan Relay Issue now a recall campaign

^^ i brought mine in with my fpgreen/mods, and all they did was stare under the hood like a few guys drinking beers talking about cars, lol. You shouldnt have a problem, only thing you will prob get is a few nice comments. Just remember to flash back to your stock ecu settings before you go incase they have to change your ecu. They changed mine, so I would of been left with a dead accessport if I didnt unmarry it before I got there.

So did this fan relay problem ever make noise when the engine was running?

So did this fan relay problem ever make noise when the engine was running?

Yes, but harder to diagnose.

 

It's a recall, no warranty period to worry about.

Last July, I had the ECU and Relay replaced. Just last month when the car is fully warmed up, the fan will turn on and stay on. So then I bought a new relay in hopes of fixing it. Nope, it contiune to do the same thing, which leads me to believe the ECU needs replacing again. I'm hoping SOA will correct this since I've already had this done last year.

 

I also had the ECU & relay replaced about a year ago, but when I brought it in recently for a serpentine belt job, they found the fan running all the time. I told them I had the recall done already, but they said I should bring it in and have it done again. The service manager said "I know you've flashed your ECU but I won't tell Subaru but that's why it failed again". I unmarried my AP and brought it in for service, they replaced ECU & fan relay once again.

 

Observations/questions:

1. Gas mileage has improved noticeably, approx 15%

2. No way could it be the AP, but now they have me concerned...thoughts?

 

It's winter so I won't remarry the AP for now...no need for extra HP in snow.

If anyone local wants a v1 AP, make me an offer...

 

Hardly on this forum in the past few months, new job, spare time dropped drastically:icon_sad:

UPDATE #10 (3/16/2010): Made it through the winter without any issues. Fuel economy went back up in the summer and then down over the winter due to winter blend. Wobble/stutter/skip is still there, but I live with it.

 

UPDATE #9 (7/7/2009): With the warmer weather, the cooling fans have not come on, that I can tell. When I reach my destination, the fans are off, which is different than 3 months ago when the fans would come on after 15 minutes of driving (consistently, and I timed it). Fuel economy is way up (25 vs 20 back in February). But, the wobble/stutter/skip is back with a vengeance. It is most severe in 3rd and 4th gear. I have to take it in to get it checked out against the recall.

 

UPDATE #8 (3/21/2009): Real-time fuel economy is increasing again, but the fan is on every time I reach my destination. Plus, now the car is chugging when it goes up its first hill, or when it goes into 4th gear for the first time - whichever comes first. I know my car well, so I know this is abnormal. Especially since I have driven it over 46,000 miles for just under 5 years. I am heading to the dealership on 03 Apr to see if they will repair the fan relay again.

 

UPDATE #7 (2/15/2009): Real-time fuel economy is increasing (currently at 1/2 tank), but every time I reach my destination the fan is on. Every time. No matter the distance. Regardless of whether or not I use the heat/air. Time for another call to the local dealership.

 

UPDATE #6 (2/9/2009): Whenever I shut the car off, the fan is on. This is even when I drive home from work (9 miles, 20 minutes) without turning on the fan/heater/AC. Also, when I filled up at the end of January I had an all-time low of 19.4 MPG for the tank of fuel. I have had the car since June 2004 and the lowest MPG I ever had was 19.7 - the first tank of gas from the dealer. The average is 23.7 MPG over the life of the car.

 

UPDATE #5 (1/31/2009): Car has been acting fine, except for fuel economy being 19% lower than average ever since this all happened.

 

UPDATE #4 (1/19/2009): Dealership held car all day to try and duplicate problem. They ran diagnostics and even called SOA technical assistnace to open up a case file. SOA had no history of this happening on other Legacy's. The dealership said that all diagnostics came back clean, and there was no indication, from a vehicle diagnostic standpoint, that the event(s) even took place. Invoice issue was cleared up by service dept explaining that the wrong labor code was entered, and the ECM was not replaced on 1/3/2009. So, no fix was made. I was a little irked that the tone was that they did not believe me, and they even asked if something got stuck on the pedal - I reiterated that I was NOT stepping on the accel when this happened. I am pleased with the curteousness of the folks at the dealership, but am not impressed with their techincal or troubleshooting abilities.

 

 

UPDATE #3 (1/16/2009): Started vehicle, let it warm up for ~1 min, drove down the cul-de-sac and without stepping on accelerator car decided it wanted to run all the way to 6500 RPM. I pulled over and shut the car off. Tried 3 more times, each with same result. Let car sit ~5 minutes and tried again - started fine. Called dealer to ask if they could make an appointment to re-fix what they fixed the first time. Made appointment for Jan 19. Person on phone had my file open and said "we did not replace the ECM - that is expensive". Invoice CLEARLY states that ECM and fan relay were replaced. Both need to be re-replaced on Jan 19 or a call to SOA is in order. Currently not happy, especially since the TSB states: "Note: ECM replacement is only necessary when it has been confirmed that the radiator cooling fan circuit is damaged".

 

UPDATE #2 (1/9/2009): Service manager supplied one "pop cap", aka clip.

 

UPDATE #1 (1/3/2009): Smell has pretty much gone away. So has the stutter that I was experiencing in low 3rd gear! Also, the Service Manager has agreed to provide several "pop caps" to replace the one that the service tech broke.

 

 

Just returned from the dealership (Matt Slap in Newark, DE) where they replaced the "cooling fan relay and ECM". The folks there were nice, and I was in and out in 1 hour. Hopefully this will fix the issue with my fan coming on and staying on until I turn off the car.

 

As for the dealership, my experience was good. The issues that I have are:

 

1) I made an appointment online 2 weeks prior to going in and they did not have a record of it.

 

2) They would not let me into the garage to witness the work being done.

 

3) When I returned home and parked the car, I noticed something similar to the scent of melting/burning plastic - not present in the first 45,000 miles of driving the car. I opened the hood and the smell was coming from beneath the plastic cover on the IC, but I could not pinpoint from where . Also, one of the pop-caps on the plastic IC cover was broken. I know that this was done this morning during the relay replacement, because I have never taken the cover off. You think they would/should have told me they broke the cap.

 

 

I will monitor the smell - is this something to be expected with a relay replacement?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Dactylonian
update

The car is at the dealership today for the 2nd time having the ECM and relay replaced. The first time it worked for about 10 months and then it started acting up again. Now it's on all the time.

 

Dealership is good though, I have no problems with them.

I got home a little while ago, pulled in the garage, and shut the car off. Low and behold the driver side fan did not shut off at all with the car off. I pulled the battery to stop it. I did not have this issue earlier today when I was driving around, only this last 40 mile trip has seemed to cause an issue. I did have to unhook the battery earlier in the day today to do some work, could that have caused an issue with the Relay or ECU?

 

I bought my car 2nd hand from the original owner and It looks like the recall has been done (relay is the one with the gray dot). Will they replace it all again? (Relay and ECU if need be?

 

I know the car also has an AP v2 married to it with a stage 1 map (I'm assuming I should remove this and revert to stock). I've never dealt with APs before, so no clue how to do this.

Edited February 9, 2009 by maddoc

I got home a little while ago, pulled in the garage, and shut the car off. Low and behold the driver side fan did not shut off at all with the car off. I pulled the battery to stop it. I did not have this issue earlier today when I was driving around, only this last 40 mile trip has seemed to cause an issue. I did have to unhook the battery earlier in the day today to do some work, could that have caused an issue with the Relay or ECU?

 

I bought my car 2nd hand from the original owner and It looks like the recall has been done (relay is the one with the gray dot). Will they replace it all again? (Relay and ECU if need be?

 

I know the car also has an AP v2 married to it with a stage 1 map (I'm assuming I should remove this and revert to stock). I've never dealt with APs before, so no clue how to do this.

 

Whoa, with the car off the fan remained on? Not sure about that one. You should check out the WVB-12 bulletin - if the fan comes on immediately after starting the car, then you need both the fan relay and ECU replaced (directly from the bulletin). I would say that if they did the work once and the car failed, then they need to do it again. If they diagnose the problem as the relay and ECU, then they need to replace it/them. The guys at the dealership here said they would have no problem replacing the fan relay on my car again if I took it in and it came up bad.

 

Sorry, no experience here with an AP, but I have read on this thread that you have to "unmarry" the AP before the recall work is done.

 

Good luck.

I'm about to post another thread, but I went to unmarry the AP v2 tonight, and magically the radiator fan stopped running.

 

The run down; I connected the green plugs under dash, attached the AP to OBDII port and then proceeded to turn the ignition to the "ON" position. The car begins to go through cycles, clicking noises, then suddenly the radiator fan goes off. Then a few seconds later it goes on again... and continues this cycle for a little bit.

 

I immediately shut the car off. The radiator fan remains off. I unplug the AP and start the car...fans do not turn on again. I never unmarried the AP or anything, all I did was connect the test connectors and turn the car on, and the problem vanished...

 

Now... I'm confused

Edited February 10, 2009 by maddoc

Not sure what exactly is going on but hopefully you folks will have some input.

 

I was driving home one day in stop and go traffic and noticed the car sounded alot louder than normal. I got home and realized that the fans were running full out, and remembering this thread figured that it was time to get the recall done (I tried before a couple of times and the dealership kept putting it off)

 

The next morning I started the car and lo and behold the fans weren't running. Thinking that it was just the relay I carried on my way to work. When I got to where I was going I got out only to hear the fans running full speed again.

 

So basically if I start the car cold the fans are good but when it warms up they start going full speed and don't stop. I had the relay swapped and it didn't work, but from what I am reading the ECU should be okay as long as the fans aren't always on.

 

Thoughts?

just bougth an 05 leggy wagon gt with 5 spd.

fan is running at all times. so cooling fan relay is shot.

sure warranty has expired and if this a recall the dealer should

fix the problem, correct ?

if not what happens if fan relay is not changed, any long term issues.

 

thanks

They changed out my PCM and relay without a fight and my 05 had 85k miles

Went in yesterday for the problem, they are going to fix the problem, the only thing is that they didnt have the parts to change it!

 

They are going to replace the ECU and relay, grand total of 1225$ CAD (1050$ USD)

 

All under warranty!! Now i'd also like to know if its bad to drive on it till they get the parts in?

 

JP

did some searching and still cannot come to a conclusion.

does daily driving with cooling running at all times

be bad in the long run ?

 

thanks

did some searching and still cannot come to a conclusion.

does daily driving with cooling running at all times

be bad in the long run ?

 

thanks

 

It can't be good for the fans if they are running all the time. Obviously they have a life span and are not intended to run constantly.

 

Also, I believe you are actually getting less cooling effect at higher speeds with the fans running than you would with just normal air flow.

 

That being said, mine have been running for six months or more and I've been too lazy to get the issue fixed, it's not a huge deal for me.

thanks vet,

i will take it in at some point, just finding time to do it.

hopefully the dealer will come through.

OK, I have been reading about this recall. I have seen the question asked a couple of times, but no definite answer. On a cold start with the HVAC off the drivers side fan kicks on and runs continuously, but the passenger side only comes on with the A/C. Taking it in next Wed., just wondering if the computer is fried, or if that is normal, so I know what I can expect the dealer to say.

shocker,

from what i understand from past post.

i think the computer is fried.

changing the relay will make the problem comeback.

post up on what happens with the dealer.

any mods like AP ?

 

thanks

OK, I have been reading about this recall. I have seen the question asked a couple of times, but no definite answer. On a cold start with the HVAC off the drivers side fan kicks on and runs continuously, but the passenger side only comes on with the A/C. Taking it in next Wed., just wondering if the computer is fried, or if that is normal, so I know what I can expect the dealer to say.

 

Its a hit or miss, the computer might be fried, and the relay, or simply the relay, i brought mine in last week to get it all changed under warranty, relay and ECU, i had to bring in all my keys and remotes to get them reprogrammed!

 

To really know if the computer is fried you can always buy the relay, which is less than 20$ and replace it, if the fans are still one the ECU is fried! That's waht happened to me!

 

JP

jproy,

great idea.

will now research where relay is.

 

thanks

I'm getting a new ECU because of this problem. I also have the "stutter" problem. Will this new ECU fix that?

 

Thanks!

OK, update on my situation. Took it in and the service writer changed the relay, then had me restart the car, and agreed that the computer was bad. The new computer was put in about a week ago and the car runs quiet now. In reply to the stuttering issue, it did not fix my stutter issue as I still notice it from time to time.

I don't believe I have ever received the letter from SOA. However a couple of days ago the fan started running non stop and I remember reading about this issue.

 

My question is, has anybody taken their car in for repair under this service bulletin who did not recieve a letter and was out of warranty? I am just wondering what kind of static I am going to get.

 

Just FYI, mine is a late build '05 model.

 

-Rob

Rob,

I probably should have actually checked the relay itself before bringing my car in for the campaign just now, but my.subaru.com shows that mine is eligible for the recall and that it's still open. Since I bought my car used, I never received a letter. Most likely if you're eligible, they shouldn't give you any trouble given that this is now a recall.

I'm having the cold start, FANS on HIGH issue, but the car is an auto, not manual trans.

Have not been able to verify fans running at all times yet. Seems to slow fans down when removed from park. My.subaru.com shows no available recalls on the car.

 

Does this affect auto cars as well?