2.5XT 5MT vs. 3.0R LL Bean 5EAT

Since my dad and I have matching cars (almost) I get to compare the two quite frequently. Even though the numbers on the two engines are close, it's just not the same. The 2.5T has so much more usable power than the 3R. To get the power out of the 3R, you need to stay above 4.5k rpms, which means second and third gear, only. I'd find myself upshifting into 4th, only to drop it back down to 2nd to get some juice flowing. The one thing the 3R has over the 2.5T is it's much much smoother. The power flow is very smooth from idle all the way to 7k.

 

On the highway, the 2.5 wins hands down. At 75mph, in top gear, the 2.5 is able to pull pretty hard. The 3R has to drop 2 gears to get going. But the 3R can cruise at 75mph all day while the 2.5 gulps fuel.

 

The 3R is still plenty powerful. On a 3 lane road, with a light at the top of a hill (You stop facing uphill, then crest the hill as you go through the light and are going downhill after the light) The 3R smoked a celica and some chick in a honda something or other. Not a hard thing to do, but they weren't expecting it. The XT woulda left them in tears, but the 3R still pooped on their egos.

 

Handling is virtually identical. The 3R is a bit heavier, but barely noticable.

 

Interior:

 

My XT is cloth. The seats heat up faster.

The LL Beanie stuff is pretty much a sticker on the back, LL Bean patchs on the floor mats, and some wood trim here and there. Other wise it's the same as the Lmited package on the XT. The one thing I really don't like is the wood on the steering wheel. From about 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock, it's wood. Very slippery wood. Whenever I palm the wheel, my hand usually slips off and I have to grab the wheel with both hands. My dad likes it though, so whatev.

 

The dash is actually alot different. I don't like the 3R dash at all. THe XT one is much easier to read. Also, the XT speedo goes up to 160, the 3R goes to 140. Which is weird cause the 3R has a higher theoretical top speed. Also, the 3R dash isn't as bright as the XT's. Even at night at ILL.6, the 3R seems dim, whereas the XT is blinding at ILL.6.

 

 

Drivetrain:

 

The 5EAT center diff is much more forgiving than the 5MT one. In a fast tight turn, the 5MT's front wheels really pull hard and whip the car around. The 5EAT turns much more like a 2wd car. One's not better or worse than the other, just different.

 

I think I hit most of the major points but if anyone has anything they wanna know about either model, shoot.

Since my dad and I have matching cars (almost) I get to compare the two quite frequently. Even though the numbers on the two engines are close, it's just not the same. The 2.5T has so much more usable power than the 3R. To get the power out of the 3R, you need to stay above 4.5k rpms, which means second and third gear, only. I'd find myself upshifting into 4th, only to drop it back down to 2nd to get some juice flowing. The one thing the 3R has over the 2.5T is it's much much smoother. The power flow is very smooth from idle all the way to 7k.

...

I think I hit most of the major points but if anyone has anything they wanna know about either model, shoot.

 

Nice post! Although I don't have an Outback, I'm sure this will help people who are waffling between the two.

 

Can anyone else confirm that the cloth seats heat up faster than the leather?

I have cloth in my car now. By way of comparison with another car. I also had heated seats in my old Jetta with leather and a friend of mine had heated seats in his Jetta but with cloth. Cloth heats up faster and you could feel the difference in the full range of settings. With my leather, 1-3 were usless, 4 was warm and 5 could start a fire. Not sure if the heated seats with leather in the subarus are quite as extreme but I'm sure happy with the heaters in my cloth seats.

The 3.0 R and LL Bean are different models. I assume you meant the USDM 3.0 H-6 LL Bean? My brother has that car and I have an LGT-L - we bought them a day apart. We have traded a few times and IMHO, his car is boring (even he says so after driving mine). Feels like a typical Japanese 6 cylinder with automatic transmission. Competent, yes. Fun, no. The 3.0 H-6 is anemic down low.....no torque after mating it with the 5eat. I wince when I think about that driveline in the new Tribeca with it's 1K lbs of additional heft. I am sure they have reworked the gear ratios.

as far as the handling on the 3.0r, all you need is a perrin rear swaybar and avo endlinks. add in some better tires and surprise, suprise you get a car that handles 100 times better.

 

I’m waiting for rims and tires.

 

as far as the engine, all you 2.5 turbos out there are going to cry when the single or twin turbo six comes out.

 

And the engine doesn’t lack power it’s more “relaxed”

as far as the engine, all you 2.5 turbos out there are going to cry when the single or twin turbo six comes out.

I hope we have that problem

 

And the engine doesn’t lack power it’s more “relaxed”

Nothing a 6sp couldn't fix. BRING US THE LEGACY 3.0R!!!

 

Nothing a 6sp couldn't fix. BRING US THE LEGACY 3.0R!!!

 

Obviously you mean the 3.0R Spec B - because with the "3.0R" you'll get the 5EAT as standard (in Europe at least).

 

I own the Legacy 3.0R (with the 5EAT) and I am very satisfied. Never drove the 3.0R Spec B with the 6MT - I was afraid that I could fall in love with it and would have to shell out a bunch of cash again. Besides that the mileage interestingly is worse (concering to specifications, don't know about real life) with the Spec B. Maybe it is due to the short gear ratios. On the other hand the 0-100 km/h time is 1.8 sec better.

as far as the handling on the 3.0r, all you need is a perrin rear swaybar and avo endlinks. add in some better tires and surprise, suprise you get a car that handles 100 times better.

 

I’m waiting for rims and tires.

 

as far as the engine, all you 2.5 turbos out there are going to cry when the single or twin turbo six comes out.

 

And the engine doesn’t lack power it’s more “relaxed”

You H6 non turbos will be crying too

You H6 non turbos will be crying too

 

we'll upgrade our cars

 

bye, bye, jedi varoommmm....... =jedi

If then, hopefully I can resist the urge to upgrade the 3.0R. Because I don't want to fire more money (=gas) through the exhaust!

The 3.0 R and LL Bean are different models. I assume you meant the USDM 3.0 H-6 LL Bean?

 

They are not different models. All of the outbacks with the H6 in them are a 3.0R. The 3 models with their offical names are: 3.0R LL Bean, 3.0R VDC Limited, and the 3.0R Sedan.

They are not different models. All of the outbacks with the H6 in them are a 3.0R. The 3 models with their offical names are: 3.0R LL Bean, 3.0R VDC Limited, and the 3.0R Sedan.

 

Well, yes. You must be the only person on the planet who calls the LL Bean the 3.0R.....

is there any "real" info or product announcements from Subaru about actually producing a turbo-charged H6? the imagination runs wild on the thought of a twin-turboed H6 pumping out maybe 320+ factory hp/tq. start putting stage 1, 2 goodies on and it's easy to imagine 400+ hp/tq without the overwhelming turbo lag to get there with a monster turboed 2.5L H4

Since my dad and I have matching cars (almost) I get to compare the two quite frequently. Even though the numbers on the two engines are close, it's just not the same. The 2.5T has so much more usable power than the 3R. To get the power out of the 3R, you need to stay above 4.5k rpms, which means second and third gear, only. I'd find myself upshifting into 4th, only to drop it back down to 2nd to get some juice flowing. The one thing the 3R has over the 2.5T is it's much much smoother. The power flow is very smooth from idle all the way to 7k.

 

On the highway, the 2.5 wins hands down. At 75mph, in top gear, the 2.5 is able to pull pretty hard. The 3R has to drop 2 gears to get going. But the 3R can cruise at 75mph all day while the 2.5 gulps fuel.

 

The 3R is still plenty powerful. On a 3 lane road, with a light at the top of a hill (You stop facing uphill, then crest the hill as you go through the light and are going downhill after the light) The 3R smoked a celica and some chick in a honda something or other. Not a hard thing to do, but they weren't expecting it. The XT woulda left them in tears, but the 3R still pooped on their egos.

 

Handling is virtually identical. The 3R is a bit heavier, but barely noticable.

 

Interior:

 

My XT is cloth. The seats heat up faster.

The LL Beanie stuff is pretty much a sticker on the back, LL Bean patchs on the floor mats, and some wood trim here and there. Other wise it's the same as the Lmited package on the XT. The one thing I really don't like is the wood on the steering wheel. From about 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock, it's wood. Very slippery wood. Whenever I palm the wheel, my hand usually slips off and I have to grab the wheel with both hands. My dad likes it though, so whatev.

 

The dash is actually alot different. I don't like the 3R dash at all. THe XT one is much easier to read. Also, the XT speedo goes up to 160, the 3R goes to 140. Which is weird cause the 3R has a higher theoretical top speed. Also, the 3R dash isn't as bright as the XT's. Even at night at ILL.6, the 3R seems dim, whereas the XT is blinding at ILL.6.

 

 

Drivetrain:

 

The 5EAT center diff is much more forgiving than the 5MT one. In a fast tight turn, the 5MT's front wheels really pull hard and whip the car around. The 5EAT turns much more like a 2wd car. One's not better or worse than the other, just different.

 

I think I hit most of the major points but if anyone has anything they wanna know about either model, shoot.

 

Hmmm...here's my take, based solely on 30 minute test drives in the Outback XT and the 3.0R L.L. Bean I ended up buying.

 

I thought the XT was noisier and peaky, compared to the smooth power delivery of the H6. The XT does have 31 lb ft more torque, so if you've got to have maximum grunt, you'll want the XT. But if you're not 2F2F, but prefer a smoother ride, check out the H6 powered models.

 

The best bet for many may be the VDC model, especially if you live in a snowy climate. I probably should have considered one of those, but I got a good deal on my L.L. Bean, which tipped the scale in its favor.

 

The XT dash definitely has a higher tech look, with its electroluminescent gauges. The L.L. Bean has two-tone perforated leather. I like the look, but some may not.

 

My leather seats heat up plenty quickly, though, and I live in Alaska...

 

Both are very nice cars...I just wish the VDC's traction and stability control was available in all models.

good luck finding a VDC model. They're pretty rare

good luck finding a VDC model. They're pretty rare

 

I wonder why that is. If it's because of lack of demand, then I'd say the company needs to market this technology better. Lots of customers would benefit from stability and traction control, but may not like being forced into one particular model to get it.

 

I think it's particularly strange that the highest performance Outback model, the XT, can't be ordered with VDC.

I test drove a VDC and an XTMT before buying the XT. In Reno, we're at 4500 feet, several friends live at 7000 feet, and I regularly go over passes at 10,000 feet. The VDC would probably have been adequate, but it was obvious to me that the XT would perform better at altitude. (I also rented a 2.5i with 5sp auto as a test. That could get over the mountains, but was always hunting its gear.)

 

I was interested in the VDC's traction control...but the turbo and the manual made the difference for me. Not at 1000 mi yet, but I find the car very comfortable -- like on rails at speed.

I test drove a VDC and an XTMT before buying the XT. In Reno, we're at 4500 feet, several friends live at 7000 feet, and I regularly go over passes at 10,000 feet. The VDC would probably have been adequate, but it was obvious to me that the XT would perform better at altitude. (I also rented a 2.5i with 5sp auto as a test. That could get over the mountains, but was always hunting its gear.)

 

I was interested in the VDC's traction control...but the turbo and the manual made the difference for me. Not at 1000 mi yet, but I find the car very comfortable -- like on rails at speed.

 

Excellent point--at higher altitudes, turbocharged engines are great.

 

Subaru of America, please take note: some customers might like the option of having both the 2.5 turbo AND VDC. What's stopping you from offering this combo?