Creaking/Popping during turns

Alright... another issue on my seemingly endless list of suspension issues, which, so far, i've slowly taken care of one-by-one. This one, however, has been stumping me for a while. So, here's the issue: During slow speed, angled turns (must be turning the car at least 45 degrees or so) I get a creaking and popping sound coming from the front suspension. It literally sounds like a creaking door initially, then will pop loudly. Again, this only happens during slow speed turns, the more the wheels turned, the more the popping happens. During something like a U-turn or 90 degree turn, it'll pop quite a bit.

So this has been going on for 4-5 weeks maybe, without fail. During the course of modifying my car, since this started i've changed out severl components. Imo these components can be ruled out as the cause, as the noise was there before they were replaced, and all were replaced with new parts. The parts which have been replaced after the noise began include:

Springs/Struts

Brake lines replaced with SS lines

Pads/Rotors

In addition to this, my front sway bar (aftermarket Rallitek bar) had been making noise in the past. It was a similar noise, but NOT the same noise. I replaced the endlinks when it had been making noise before, and the noise stopped. Again, the popping i'm hearing now is not the same it was before when the endlinks went, and happens under different circumstances. The swaybars got about 3k miles on it, the endlinks (Rallitek HDs) about 1k.

So in replacing all of the above with aftermarket parts, I'd always kind of thought (hoped) that when finished the noise would be gone, but it's still there. So I turned here, to the forums. I searched for popping, creaking, etc. and found almost nothing. In going to Google for a search, I found someone with the exact same symptoms as mine over on a G35 forum. The problem in his case was "the control arm bolts (bolts which attach to the frame of the car) were loose."

Anyone experience anything like this? Should I be looking at the control arm bolts, like the G35 guy? Any advice appreciated.

lots of documented info on this site... here's one from last week that comes to mind.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/front-end-clunks-and-rattles-145275.html

I think my creaking / popping seems to be coming from aftermarket front spring twisting in the perch. Same exact symptoms as yours. I also replaced stock springs, sway bars, bushings, and endlinks. My problem will disapear for weeks at a time and then come back.

This is why I think it's spring twist.

Ok, got under the car today and took a look at things. Everything seems tight, there's no problem with the control arm bolts like the G35 guy had. With both wheels off the ground, turning the steering wheel lock to lock produces NO noise whatsoever. The noise is only made when the suspension is loaded. It may be the spring twist, but this pop is really loud. Is this common for the spring twisting?

Also, another possibility i'm thinking is that it might be one or both spring perchs. This is the only part which has been used on both the stock struts and Bilsteins, as I swapped it over onto the Spec B tophats. Anyone ever had a spring perch damaged and/or worn out?

seems like im the only one getting the same problem as you. weeks after my bilstein hd install with my h&r springs, that same noise you described started appearing more frequent when accelerating. dealer told me its my aftermarket springs that are making the noise. Is there really a specific perch required to mount the springs in order not to make the noise? Spec b perches maybe iono? from all the reading ive done i can only conclude that the factory perches must not be 100 percent compatible with bilstein shocks.

They fit so damn well you would assume they would be compatible, but with there being 2 different part numbers you can only assume so much.

seems like im the only one getting the same problem as you. weeks after my bilstein hd install with my h&r springs, that same noise you described started appearing more frequent when accelerating. dealer told me its my aftermarket springs that are making the noise. Is there really a specific perch required to mount the springs in order not to make the noise? Spec b perches maybe iono? from all the reading ive done i can only conclude that the factory perches must not be 100 percent compatible with bilstein shocks.

 

They fit so damn well you would assume they would be compatible, but with there being 2 different part numbers you can only assume so much.

 

Yeah that's what I figured as well, but seeing as they're two different part numbers I assume there's some type of difference. In my case, I noticed when installing the perches (drivers side in particular) that the rubber part on the bottom of the perch, the part that actually contacts the spring, was loose and easy came off of the perch. Seeing as the majority of my noise is coming from the drivers side, I think this might be the issue.

Yeah that's what I figured as well, but seeing as they're two different part numbers I assume there's some type of difference. In my case, I noticed when installing the perches (drivers side in particular) that the rubber part on the bottom of the perch, the part that actually contacts the spring, was loose and easy came off of the perch. Seeing as the majority of my noise is coming from the drivers side, I think this might be the issue.

most of my noise is coming from the same area as well

Have you checked the conical washers? This is very common where it is either inverted or it is left out in the re-assembly of the struts. That is 90% of the time the twisting and then popping noise.

That would be the first thing to check. Then the strut tops themselves. Easiest way to evaluate this is to remove the struts and spin the tops. They should spin freely w/o any resistance.

Another thing it could be is the LCA Bushings but far less likely.

-mike

cv joints?

ill check my cv joints with my local mechanic soon

Glad to see a. at least one other person is having this problem, and b. there are some educated people in here throwing around some possible answers, lol. So anyways, here's the facts of what's going on in my situation...

About 3 weeks ago, the cars on Bilstein HDs with RS-R springs. No noise. I didn't like the RS-Rs, so I decided to go Rallitek. While waiting for the Ralliteks to arrive, I switched back to stock struts/springs and the noise started shortly after. When installing the stock springs, I noticed the rubber on the bottom of the stock spring perch was a bit loose, but didn't really think anything of it.

1. So my setup went from this:

Spec B Tophat

Conical Washer

GT Spring Perch

RS-R Spring

Bilstein HD

2. To this:

Spec B Tophat

Conical Washer

GT Spring Perch

GT Spring

GT Strut

3. Once the Ralliteks arrived, I swapped them out, and went to this setup:

Spec B Tophat

Conical Washer

GT Spring Perch

Rallitek Springs

Bilstein HD

Notice, the only constant between #2 and #3 (the setups with the noise) are the conical washer and the GT spring perch. Everything else is different, so logic tells me it has to be one of these things, or something completely unrelated that's causing my noise. So, let's start with these two options:

Conical Washer

First off, do I even need this with a Spec B Tophat? I've heard the obvious, which is to install it, but some people say you don't need the conical washer with the Spec B Tophat, and that they have no conican washer installed at all, and have no noise. So do I need it at all with the Spec B tophat? Any ill effects from not installing it?

Second, just to be sure, the conical washer should look like this /\ and sit on top of the spring perch, beneath the tophat, correct?

Spring Perch

On to the spring perch itself. Does anyone know if there is an actual difference between the two spring perches? Why else would they have a different part number from each other?

Also, anyone have experience with the rubber on the bottom of the perch being loose? Mine is most definitely loose on the drivers side, but does this even matter?

Something Else

The final, and hopefully least likely, scenario is that its something else completely. How would I go about checking the LCA bushings? How would I know that they'd gone out? Any other symptoms?

I realize i've written a lot here, but I really hate having spent some serious dinero on these upgrades, only to have them cause me a headache. Really'd like to figure out this issue so I can enjoy my car, which i'm sure you all understand.

I had exactly the same symptoms.....and it turned out to be the front differential.

Put the car on a hoist and check the play on the front drive shafts, they should be tight, if not, start saving $$$$$

When I installed my Bilsteins, I found that most people recommended not installing the washer, so I left it out. Can't say for sure that this is causing the noise issue though.

If you don't install the conical washer you will wear down the bearing in the strut tops.

-mike

If you don't install the conical washer you will wear down the bearing in the strut tops.

 

-mike

Alright, so leaving the conical washer out is out of the question... thanks for making that decision easy, lol. So once the new perches get here, we'll see if its that. If it's not, it has to be unrelated to the struts/springs IMO.

AZP,

What you are saying about the need for the conical washer goes against the sticky in this forum that says:

I want to install Bilsteins, what parts do I need?

 

For the front you need JDM top hats, corresponding dust caps (seals) and front spring upper perch/seats. Some people used stock USDM GT front perch/seat, but since they look bit different and have different part number I recommend using the Bilstein specific one. Also, the dust boots are different in front. For the rear you can use the stock top hat and spring seat.

 

Of course you also need some sort of JDM GT/SpecB specific springs like STI Pinks, Swifts, R-SR, Wangans, Teins or Provas, etc.

 

Part numbers (available from US dealers):

 

20320AG000 - front top hat (strut mount), 2 needed -

20326AG000 - front top hat dust cap (dust seal), 2 needed

20323AG000 - front spring seat/perch, 2 needed.

20322AG010 - front dust boots, 2 needed.

I was under the impression these parts are all you need to go with a Bilstein HD + Rallitek conversion on a GT. Please let me know if I am wrong...

On a side not I get a clunking/popping sound on big bumps (turned and straight as well) from my drivers side suspension. I thought it was the top-hat (there was a bit of play in the bearing) and replacing that has certainly reduced it but not eliminated it.

As far as I know you need that conical washer. We've done 100s and 100s of installs over the years on cars and always use the conical washers.

The bottom line is that while the strut is out and assembled, you need to be able to freely spin the strut top and not have any binding ie: tap it and it should spin.

-mike

If you don't install the conical washer you will wear down the bearing in the strut tops.

 

-mike

Could you explain how the omission of the washer will wear down the bearings in the "strut tops"? I did a search for "washer" on this forum and most people mention that the washer is only for the LGT style top hats, not the Spec-B top hats.

I'm definitely not one to take information from random people on this forum as gospel, so if you have something a little more definitive I'd be more than willing to hear it.

I could be wrong on the spec B tops, because I personally haven't seen them up front, however all Subaru strut tops we've dealt with use the conical washers, perhaps the way the bilstien rods are made do not require the washer, but I'd be surprised if it didn't need the washer. I'll check the documentation tomorrow and let you know.

-mike