Mass Loaded Vinyl for soundproofing - very satisfied!

So, I've been wanting to make my car quieter inside for a while. We use the car regularly for roadtrips and while I only have an axleback right now, I'll be installing a CBE shortly and that, combined with louder tires (Nitto Neo Gens) at higher tire pressures with a stiff suspension setup, leads to a fair bit of noise. Definitely not bad but our cars could stand to be a bit quieter - not quite luxury rides from a sound perspective. I did a lot of research and it all pointed towards using mass loaded vinyl as a barrier material to really cut down on the noise.

Mass loaded vinyl is a limp heavy material that is a modern day substitute for lead. Lead is what they used to use for a sound barrier but due to the toxicity, you don't see it used much anymore. The density of the product is the key and standard 1/8" MLV is usually about 1 lb/sq ft. It's not light. If you are a weight weenie and trying to keep your car light, it's not for you. On the other hand, if you want to cut the road noise, this is the stuff. You can get 1/4" MLV as well at 2lb/sq ft but it's apparently a lot harder to work with and you're probably looking at diminishing returns in any case.

Note that the MLV is only part of a soundproofing solution. The other components are the sound deadeners, (Dynamat, Raamat, eDead, B-Quiet etc), which reduce the resonance in the sheet metal and an isolation layer (normally foam) to decouple the panel from the barrier material, the MLV. I wanted to do the job myself and keep it as cheap as possible - cost was a primary factor.

There are lots of options for deadeners, some more costly than others, but general consensus is that you want to stay away from asphalt based products, like 'peel and seal' as found at home depot etc, and stay with a butyl based product. Contrary to popular belief, you DO NOT need to cover everything with this stuff. There's a great post on diymobileaudio.com where the OP was sorely disappointed in how little a difference in noise reduction resulted after covering everything with deadener: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/dumb-question-forum/68418-killing-road-noise.html

I chose to use B-Quiet Ultimate as I found a decent deal on it (50 sq ft on ebay) and applied as much as I could as simply as possible (plus they're a canadian company to boot).

The next layer is the decoupler - to isolate the barrier from the sheet metal. Lots of options here with closed cell foam generally regarded as the best. As well, if cost isn't as much of a factor, there are composite products available that have the foam and the MLV bonded together already... one of the most popular is second skin's Luxury Liner and LL Pro. One has open cell foam, the other closed cell (pro). This is probably a great solution for many but as I was working with a tight budget and as well having concerns about the greater ~3/8" thickness, I chose to source my own decoupler. I ended up going with a 3/32" closed cell foam underlay used for flooring from one of the local home improvement big box stores. It may not be the best, but this was the one area I figured I could cut costs. I got a big roll for about $20, more than enough for the car. One of the important considerations about this layer is that it doesn't retain water so jute and other cheaper open celled alternatives may not be the best if there's any chance of exposure to moisture.

The MLV I purchased in bulk as well, splitting a 130 sq ft roll with a buddy to save money. I was able to find a roll on ebay from seller auburndarter for US$120. The catch is the shipping - this stuff is HEAVY - the ship weight on the roll was 142 lbs. If you're shopping around for it, make sure to include shipping costs. Those that can pick up the product in person stand to save the most. My roll cost $88.50 to ship, so total cost was US$208.50 for 130 sq feet. I ended up with ~67.5 sq feet which is more than enough for the car.

So, on to the installation

I pulled the door panel and the vapor barrier off and applied as much deadener to the door as I could easily and simply. There are a number of folks out there that say judicious application of this layer is more important than covering everything. I think this is the smart call. Just rap the metal with your knuckles and if it sounds tinny, add deadener. Make sure you do the outer door skin as well. I applied more material to the outer door skin than the inner. I also applied deadener to the inside of the door liner as well.

I used the vapor barrier as a stencil and cut the foam and MLV using it. I wasn't sure whether or not to retain the vapor barrier initially but decided in the end that I was basically replacing it with what I was about to install. As you can see from my pics, I don't think it's needed at all. Not only that, but it's messy and a bit of a hassle to work with. That said, I did leave the adhesive goop that was left on the door as I felt it would assist in holding the foam and MLV on to a degree.

So, I then applied the foam, taping it down at the edges and then layered the MLV on top as well. Again taping it down well. I made sure to really rub down the tape to make sure it was adhered properly. One of the MLV suppliers recommended the red Tuck tape as it's what they use to seal the stuff in construction soundproofing applications, the primary usage of MLV as far as I can tell. (Other folks have glued down the MLV or used industrial strength velcro to hang it, but you need to be very careful as most adhesives won't bond well to the vinyl.) The key with the barrier material is to keep any holes/gaps to a minimum as the sound will make it's way through any holes. Basically, by using a single piece, in the shape of the factory vapor barrier, I think I've been able to realize that goal to a large degree. Of course, you have to have the access holes for the latch cables, the handle and the wiring etc but for the most part its a continuous barrier.

I have to say I'm very pleased with the results. There is a significant reduction in road noise through the doors and my stereo sounds way better. (On a side note, I reinstalled my factory tweeters that I had originally removed when installing my JL coaxes. I think that may have been a mistake and I'll likely remove them next time I have the door skins off.)

This was the first step in a two part project. I'll be doing the floor pan next but not for a few weeks. I'll take a full weekend to do that, likely in early May, as I plan to pull most of the interior out and lay down as complete a layer of the MLV on the floor as I can. That should really complete the soundproofing as I can tell now that the road noise is now coming through the floor with the bulk of it coming from the rear of the wagon.

Here's the pics.

This one's a bit dark, but shows the deadener on both the outer and inner sheet metal. I put rope caulking around the lower plastic cover as well deadener on the backside of the plastic panel as well.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2855.jpg

Here's the 3/32" closed cell foam underlay on the entire door.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2858.jpg

There's the finished product - the MLV taped on over the foam.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2859.jpg

Here's the door panel (took photo upside down) with the deadener applied to help reduce any resonance in the door panel itself.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2862.jpg

Passenger side front door complete.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2864.jpg

Driver's side rear door complete.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG2854.jpg

Looks great, very nice write up! Do you have any suggestions where someone should look for individual quantities of the MLV? Or are there any store locations that would carry it?

spartan, I searched around quite a bit for the best deal. The bulk roll on ebay was the best I found but it really depends on your location and how much you need.

I found a canadian acoustical insulation distributor but they're still about 5 hours away and their cost for a couple of 27 sq ft sheets delivered was about the same for my half roll imported from the US.

Best to find someone to split a roll with - I think that's your cheapest bet unless you can find a firm in your locale that you can pick it up from yourself.

Alternatively, you can try suppliers like sounddeadenershowdown.com or secondskinaudio.com but you'll find the product is much more expensive in the smaller quantities.

Great write up, thanks. I have my component Polk DB speakers to go in this summer and am going to add some B-Quiet Ultimate too. Quick question: what did you use for spacers for your coax speakers and if purchased, where from?

I used Scosche brand universal spacers however I will not use them again and don't recommend them.

You should use something that screws into the factory mounting points. I ended up having to use self-tapping screws with a bit of trial and error to get them to catch all the way around and that resulted in a couple of extra holes. The drilling into the sheet metal has caused a bit of corrosion unfortunately.

I plan on finding some subaru specific spacers - phenryiv1 sells some here on the board and they may be your best bet. I've just asked if they come predrilled for the factory mounting points.

I'll replace the spacers I have now with some new ones and take the time to rustproof the exposed spots.

Any opions on this product? Appears to be much cheaper than the MLV.

http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/mass-loaded-vinyl-barrier-mass-loaded-vinyl-to-soundproof-hardwood-floor-noise-barrier-roll-insulation-two-story.aspx

Yah, I looked at it while sourcing my MLV.

It's not as effective. Check the specs and test results - they often use two layers of the stuff to get a similar reduction in noise.

I thought it would be good as its recycled product etc but bottom line, you'll need to double it up for it to be equally as effective.

Just did the doors of my legacy too. Put damplifier pro, luxury liner pro and overkill pro in them.

For the drivers door I did what you did and put a mat of LLP between the trim and door, but that was such a pain in the ass, trying to get the damn trim to click back on. I ended up putting the LLP inside the other doors after the damplifier and the the overkill in the general area of the speakers.

It didn't really help noticeably with road noise and the sound quality wasn't so much improved as much as changed. But the doors do close with much more authority now. I can just hope it's doing it's part when I build up the cash to do the cabin.

That will be interesting because from the footwell to up behind the dash there is a funky pad probably intended to block noise so that will make fitting extra things in there interesting. Found some moisture in the footwell too so that eneavor will also involve figuring out if a sunroof hose is leaking or the door.

One of the reasons I used the materials I did was to avoid the exact issue you encountered juggernaut1... the MLV was only 1/8" thick and the foam underlay material I used was even thinner I think. My door panels went back with minimal grief - I simply had to make sure the holes for the door pins/popits were clear so the panel could pop back on correctly.

I just finished the balance of the interior. I had a bit of difficulty getting the rear floor panels (wagon) to pop back in but they're very tight to begin with so it was to be expected. I will post pics when I get a chance. I didn't go up behind the dash and just ended behind the pedals on the driver's side, a bit higher on the passenger side - ended just below the top of the metal panel on passenger side.

I can still hear my exhaust but I did a comparison and I've dropped 5db with the floorpan work. It was 85db when cruising on the highway at 120km/h (75mph) and now its dropped to 80db.

Unfortunately, I didn't do a comparison before and after the work on the doors... that would have been nice to have.

So, here's pics of the floorpan work. The bulk of them are off my phone, so please excuse the quality.

It was a fair bit of work pulling the interior. I used the 'vacation pix' for help.

The pics should show a progression basically. From the gutted interior through the addition of the B-Quiet Ultimate dampener, the foam underlay, and the MLV on top.

Here's the spare tire well before dampener:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05082010002.jpg

After:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010010.jpg

The two rear quarters before:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05082010003.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05082010004.jpg

After

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010009.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010012.jpg

Foam decoupler:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010013.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010015.jpg

MLV in:

I used one continuous piece straight across the mufflers and spare tire well to help maximize the sound blocking ability.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010016.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010020.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05092010021.jpg

The front of the car, gutted:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05142010025.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05142010023.jpg

(before I vacuumed all the winter salt out - its the white flakes you see)

With B-Quiet, including quite a bit on the front of the rear bench:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05142010027.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05142010029.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05142010028.jpg

Then, with the foam and MLV in, driver's side:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG3761.jpg

Rear bench:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG3760.jpg

Bottom line? It was quite a bit of work but has yielded some very satisfying results. I think the concept of doing it right or properly the first time is valid here. I went pretty much full out in the hopes of only having to do this once.

That said, I've still got a bit of finishing work to do in the rear though as one of the rear floor panels isn't sitting quite flush still. You can't see it beneath my cargo floor tray but I know it's there. I had to do some trimming for the wiring when I first installed my stereo and I may have to do some adjustments for it again as the wires aren't sitting in the exact same position anymore.

Don't know anything about that product, but that's a dam good install. Very nice. Are those spec.B pedals?

WRX pedals

Nice easy upgrade.

Really nice work! But how did you remove the panels at the rear quaters?

I´ve tried, to remove the whole but could only do it "half way trought" so to speak. I could detach the panels from the rear seats.

Please take a minute to write down how you did it.

My litte pearl is a Legacy 08.

Have a nice day!

 

The two rear quarters before:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05082010003.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/05082010004.jpg

Really nice work! But how did you remove the panels at the rear quaters?

I´ve tried, to remove the whole but could only do it "half way trought" so to speak. I could detach the panels from the rear seats.

Please take a minute to write down how you did it.

My litte pearl is a Legacy 08.

 

Have a nice day!

Check the vacation pix. These are from 2005...

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/trim.jpg

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/trim2.jpg

Check the vacation pix. These are from 2005...

 

 

Thank you very much!

But, in my Legacy 08 I have AirBag in the C-Pillar. Will it go off when I´m there and removing the cover?

What can I do prevent this?

Search for the 2008 vacation pics. I'm sure it will detail what is required.

Thanks for the answer, belive me I´ve searched here on the forum. Where do I search the Forum or the web?

Thanks for the answer, belive me I´ve searched here on the forum. Where do I search the Forum or the web?

There's a text box at the top right corner of this screeen. There's also a search drop down menu located at the far right of the blue bar at the top of this screen. Try searching for vacation pictures 2008 and you can find something similar to what CDN posted for 05.

There's a text box at the top right corner of this screeen. There's also a search drop down menu located at the far right of the blue bar at the top of this screen. Try searching for vacation pictures 2008 and you can find something similar to what CDN posted for 05.

As dr_sharp points out, they're easily found on the forum.

I searched 'vacation pix 2008':

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/