New guy with pricing question...

I am asking for those in the know. I'm interested in a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited Wagon all original with all the trimmings. It is an Auto (wife won't let me buy a manual lol) but it has 63K original. KBB has it ranging from 12-15K and Nada has it from 7-11K. What would be a reasonable price for this vehicle. It is in good condition overall from what I can tell.

 

Any previous recent sales or just those who know what these are worth would help in making a fair offer.

 

Thanks,

 

Omar M

 

It is a toss between this and a 2011 Legacy 3.6R fully loaded with 23K original miles.

With price being a factor of your purchase, have you looked at maintenance costs or each one?

 

I'm not familiar with the maintenance needs of the 3.6r or costs related to it's maintenance. Check out the threads below to get some insight into the maintenance needs of the LGT.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/my05-09-legacy-gt-common-issues-230230.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238.html

Price isn't really a factor in my decision. I do feel that the Wagon being the inexpensive option of the two would allow me to upgrade certain areas. By upgrade, I mean suspension (coils, struts, sway bars, bushings, etc.) brakes (rotors, pads, s/s brake lines) performance (intake, all upgraded piping, exhaust, tuning). Which would've been done to the 3.6R but at a much slower rate. Both finished off with wheels, HID's, front lip. So if you were in the market for a super clean OEM Legacy GT Wagon Limited with under 75K miles what would you be willing to pay, knowing it had excellent maintenance, since its from an area where it muss pass Inspection.

Both cars would have an extended warranty that covers engine, drivetrain, etc.

With price being a factor of your purchase, have you looked at maintenance costs or each one?

 

I'm not familiar with the maintenance needs of the 3.6r or costs related to it's maintenance. Check out the threads below to get some insight into the maintenance needs of the LGT.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/my05-09-legacy-gt-common-issues-230230.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238.html

 

And thanks for the links they are very informative as to what to expect from the Wagon. Looks like most of the problems can be resolved with the upgrades I listed above.

KBB is probably a little high. If it's in good shape, it's definitely worth more than $7000 though. What's the asking? Take that number and discount it 20-30% and hope he's willing to take between 10-20% off. Then decide if you're willing to pay that.

 

That said, take a little time in the next few days to familiarize yourself with some of the peccadilloes of a 2005 LGT. You would be well served to understand the risks before you do it. See the turbo failure wiki sticky in the turbo forums. Search the site for catted uppipe and banjo bolt filter problems.

 

How many miles are on the LGT wagon you are looking at? Note that timing belt replacement is due at 105,000 miles and this is about a $1000 job if it hasn't already been performed. This is a must do maintenance item. It is not safe (in terms of engine failure) to skip this maintenance. These are interference engines and they do not do well at all if run out of time.

 

Also be wary of a brand new turbo already installed. This may seem counter-intuitive, but a brand new turbo could actually be a sign that the previous turbo failed and sent metal pieces into the engine. Turbo failures are actually pretty bad in these cars. I'm not saying that it can't be fixed properly, but even dealerships struggle to get this fix right because it's just not as simple as slapping on a new turbo and away you go. That approach can (will) lead to blowing the new turbo again in short order and can even lead to a blown engine. The best solution to this problem is really to replace the turbo before it blows up. Of course it's impossible to determine when the turbo is going to blow and there are plenty of people on here with high miles and still on the original turbo, but I just want you to understand to potential problems you could have.

 

I don't mean to panic you about 2005-2006 LGTs. They are truly awesome cars. And any current LGT wagon owner (me included) will tell you that they are absolutely worth the risk because they are so much fun to drive while still remaining supremely practical vehicles. But, this is now a 10 year old car and old turbo Subarus do have a somewhat higher risk of failure than your typical used car. And such failure has the potential to become fairly catastrophic to the tune of about $5-6000 for a new/rebuilt engine done right.

 

I'm not saying that's absolutely gonna be the case with this particular wagon you are looking at and it's absolutely possible to get a great used one with no real mechanical problems, but there's lots of stories on this site that have gone through the situation I've described. This is not a used Honda Accord you are buying. The extra performance (which is amazing) comes with associated risks. If you want a reliable daily driver that's not likely to leave you stranded anywhere and you can't tolerate the possibility that you might have to replace the engine and be without the car for a month or more, then you should absolutely get that naturally aspirated 2011 3.6R or a nice used Honda Accord/Toyota Camry. If you want great performance with incredible upgrade potential at a very affordable price and are willing to spend some time on this site learning about how to properly care for your turbo Subaru, then LGT wagon is your car. Good luck! Welcome to LGT.com!

 

Edit: gah ... ninjad.

Price isn't really a factor in my decision. I do feel that the Wagon being the inexpensive option of the two would allow me to upgrade certain areas. By upgrade, I mean suspension (coils, struts, sway bars, bushings, etc.) brakes (rotors, pads, s/s brake lines) performance (intake, all upgraded piping, exhaust, tuning). Which would've been done to the 3.6R but at a much slower rate. Both finished off with wheels, HID's, front lip. So if you were in the market for a super clean OEM Legacy GT Wagon Limited with under 75K miles what would you be willing to pay, knowing it had excellent maintenance, since its from an area where it muss pass Inspection.

 

You want the wagon. Do it.

 

$10,000 as described. Also, look through the old used car sales listings on this site. They will often tell you what somebody paid for what car when. Good indicator of the current/past market.

 

Just add upgraded turbo to that list some time in the next 20,000 - 40,000 miles and you'll probably be fine. And get it off the stock tune sooner rather than later. There is a known flaw in the oem tune that has some small potential to burn valves. Check your oil level often. These cars DO burn oil.

 

If you really want to be safe, take it to your local turbo Subaru specialist for a prepurchase inspection with at least dropping the downpipe and checking the turbo for shaft play. Also a compression test is never a bad idea. A couple hundred up front is good piece of mind against unwanted thousands later on. Where do you live? We can probably recommend a good shop to handle this.

I'm located in the Central Florida area, so a recommended turbo Subaru specialist in this area would be excellent. Also I have no problem getting a new stock turbo or a slight upgrade. I figure then getting a Cobb Accessport would probably be the first mod I do to get it off the stock tune. Then star with eliminating the catted piping. I figure with the right upfront modifications I can keep this running proper for the next 4-5 years assuming I put less than 20k a year on the wagon, realisitically 15-16k a year. Thanks for all the info.

Florida might be tough. Subarus are not nearly as common around there as they are up here in the snowy states. You might have better luck on that front if you check in to your local regional forum here on LGT.com. I'm sure there are a few folks around you on here. If it had been New England, Jersey, or California, I could have hooked you up personally, but I don't know any FL places. Sorry.

 

Fyi ... Accessport is not strictly necessary. There are cheaper options such as open source, but I will admit that nothing beats the Accessport for ease and convenience. They are a great tool, which is why they are so popular, but they aren't the only option that exists. Fyi ... I believe you can swap out the catted uppipe without retuning. This is one of the very few airflow changes you can make without requiring a retune. Also, there's not a huge benefit to going completely catless. You absolutely want to remove/swap out the uppipe cat because it's a threat to the turbo, but the downstream cat in the downpipe won't really threaten anything expensive if it fails (other than itself). Catted vs. catless downpipe is an age old debate on turbo Subaru forums. The general consensus is that the difference between a single high-flow cat in the downpipe and completely catless downpipe is in the neighborhood of about 5 hp. It usually leads to smellier fumes inside the car as well with no cat at all. Some sort of catalytic converter is obviously the more environmentally responsible choice and it may or may not be helpful in passing inspection, depending on your state laws in that regard. I will admit the one real downside is that a catted downpipe is generally a fair bit more expensive because the cat contains some small amount of precious metals like platinum and palladium. To each his own though. Feel free to make your own choices about your own car on that front. And fyi ... the stock intake is actually already a cold air intake and it's generally considered to be plenty of airflow up to about 350 awhp. So really, it's good enough for anything the stock VF40 turbo can push. You don't need an intake until at least you upgrade the turbo at stage 3. And even there, it's not unless you really want to make big power. Check in to a VF52 for a nice solid mild turbo upgrade. Plenty of other aftermarket turbo options from there for bigger power.

 

You're going about it the right way though. Take care of the known weak points/flaws in the stock design and then mod from there. Enjoy!

In Central FL check out Titan Motorsports

 

http://www.titanmotorsports.com/subaru8.html

 

Some fast cars come out of that shop.

Completely didn't even think about Titan Motorsports lol. Nero actually started that business off of Subarus and it wasn't until my good friend Angel Robles purchased a Greddy T66 Single Turbo Kit in 1996 that they got into Supras, and well the rest is history. Their dyno tuner is stated to be well versed in Open Source tuning. How would I go about setting the vehicle with Open Source tuning ability? Any recommendation on catless up-pipe?

 

All the help has been fantastic.

Sti up from nasioc, about $80

 

Tactrix cable direct from tactrix so you get the support, under 200

Oh and casey at boxer motors has built lots of engines for forum members, not sure where in Florida he is though.