The infamous head gasket

Hi, just taught i'd share what just happened to me. Just bought a 05 legacy GT LTD wagon, mint condition from a honda dealer. 5300$ 170000km. The car runs smooth, not overheating, great turbo boost. I ask for a copy of the dealer's inspection results. Fluid checked, oil an oil filter changed. few electric problems in the tail gate fixed. Seems real good. I've got a 30 days/1700km warranty from the dealer on it and I refuse the 1500$ 12month warranty they offer me. 1500km later, I open the hood to check if all the fluids are fine (never checked them before). Surprise, the coolant overflow is empty, not a drop in it and is really dirty. So I open the radiator cap and the level of coolant is really low on the upper cap and there is a brown black gew on the caps. I added around 2.5L of coolant to the system and overflow tank. The motor never overheated but I'm pretty sure it was a close call. Anyway I get home with the car running at the same temp it usually does, right in the middle of the temp gauge. The next morning, I check the coolant level again and notice tiny bubbles coming out of the overflow tank. I get closer to see them and surprise, the coolant smells like exhaust. This is my first car but I know its not right. I'm still in the 1700km warranty (200km left), so Honda agreed that i bring the car to a local subaru dealer for inspection and then approve the repair. I feel lucky I found out that problem before the end of my warranty. Also, since I refilled the cooling, I'm making big spots on the street. I'm bringing the car tomorrow morning to my local subaru dealer. I hope they swap both head gasket so I don't have to pay for this in a near future... I also feel like honda tried to avoid the repairs...

 

Anyway, found that article to be real nice for explanations about this problem:

 

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f190/t40373-everything-you-ever-needed-know-about-cooling-systems.html

The article was written several years ago and doesn't mention that the newer Subarus use a blue OEM coolant. Make sure you get the proper jug because the two don't mix. I've heard that head gasket problems were solved before 2005 but I still put that bottle of secret sauce in the radiator when I change coolant.

And don't get upset if the overflow bottle goes down a couple times after replacing the coolant. I found that "burping" the system takes some time.

Brought 3 legacy GT for inspections before and all of them had the boost returning into the rad. The headgasket for the 05-09 legacy is still a major issue. I guess subaru will flush the contaminated coolant and put the right one in. The conditionner is still needed but its only retarding the problem, not fixing it. Thanks for the info, i used "universal" prestone to refill the coolant.

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/allwheeldriveauto1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fallwheeldriveauto.com%2Fwhich-coolant-is-right-for-my-subaru%2F&dm_redirected=true#2650

 

Subaru blue long life coolant wasn't standard fill until 2009 MY, though according to this some 2008s also used it.

These cars use standard green coolant (I like a good ol 50/50 prestone myself) and a dealer will add subaru conditioner. My guess is you bled the system incorrectly. The car is to be bled from the turbo reserve tank.

 

The 4th gen legacy can get head gasket failure but it is not near (not even close) the rate of the 04 and older models. These cars are more prone to turbo failure.

 

Plus $5300 for a manual wagon with warranty and only 105k miles. That's a ******* steal.

Most likely honda tech dident even know they were bad. Person who traded it in proble topped it off and drove to dealer for trade in.

 

Sounds like Honda is taking care of it. Subaru will more than likely do both.

Yeah I got a real good price, and the warranty is because the law in quebec protects the buyers against any hidden defects for 30 days when buying from a automotive professionnal. Found a few details about the car calling a few subaru dealer with the NIV number. At 75000km, new turbo, new injector in cylinder 4. It has been a week only since I bought the car from the honda dealer, so I didn't bled the coolant at all, only added 2.5L of coolant in the turbo tank making sure to remove as much air as possible and starting the heater inside the car to remove air... The bubbles in the overflow tank are regular when the engine is hot and the coolant in it has a really strong gasoline smell. I'll know for sure tomorrow morning when the subaru dealer will check the car. Thanks for your inputs guys. Keep ya posted.

 

J-F

I swapped the readiator and did not bleed the air on 2005 LGT. is there a way and a must to do this?

I swapped the readiator and did not bleed the air on 2005 LGT. is there a way and a must to do this?

 

Yes,

1. jack up the front passenger side of the car.

2. remove cap from turbo coolant bottle.

3. turn on the motor and idle with heater on high until the radiator fans come on.

4. drop car, refill, repeat until it no longer drops in level.

 

I'm sure Max will chime in if I missed anything.

Yep that's pretty much it. I top off the tank while it's jacked up too.

 

 

I do carry some coolant with me for a couple day's...just in case.

The 4th gen legacy can get head gasket failure but it is not near (not even close) the rate of the 04 and older models. These cars are more prone to turbo failure.

 

I was under the impression that HG's were only a problem on older models. Don't 05 LGT's basically have the same set up as STi's just with smaller turbo, IC, & different ECU? My mechanic said HG's basically never really fail on these car's (along with the STi's) and that there is almost always another problem. He said he's had countless guys come in (with legacy's and STi's) for HG issues and has only had to do HG's on them once or twice.

 

They are finicky though. My car has new rad caps, no leaks, no oil in coolant, no coolant in oil, no HC's in coolant, but something is still causing vac issues and coolant doesn't always circulate back into the engine during cool down. Other times, it recirculates just like it should:spin:

When I first joined the board Headgasket issues were non existent. Now after a few years I have seen a few pop up. More so recently.

 

Your issue sounds like a thermostat. Is it not opening completely?

Yes,

1. jack up the front passenger side of the car.

2. remove cap from turbo coolant bottle.

3. turn on the motor and idle with heater on high until the radiator fans come on.

4. drop car, refill, repeat until it no longer drops in level.

 

I'm sure Max will chime in if I missed anything.

 

Should I ever hear water trickling (sounds like behind the dash) shortly after start-up or is that a sign of air in the cooling system?

That's a sign of air in the sytem. Burp the system.

15) Install the collector cover.

And if I have to lug my floor jack downstairs, would you mind chiming in here if you have an idea? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lubing-poly-bushings-228455.html

 

Thanks!

When I replaced the timing belt, the trubo and the short block I burped the system the way we say.

I used my buddy's vacuum system to fill my coolant system after a timing belt/componant swap. Slickest thing ever created. Alternatively we use a raised funnel secured to the filler neck and keep topping off until it is full and free of bubbles.

When I first joined the board Headgasket issues were non existent. Now after a few years I have seen a few pop up. More so recently.

 

Your issue sounds like a thermostat. Is it not opening completely?

 

Im not sure. Car hasnt actually overheated. It is rather new (t-stat), 20k old i think. I didnt know a tstat could cause coolant not to recirculate during cool down

 

That's a sign of air in the sytem. Burp the system.

I hear this too, sounds like liquid running down a rock face, not sure when it started

I never have overheating issues and I've had the trickling thing for ages.

 

Do you add coolant to the overflow tank or the upper reservoir tank?

A couple of times a year I add a little to the plastic over flow tank, making sure its up to the bottom line. Yea, I know its hard to see.

Partial update, subaru made a complete coolant flush using a special product because the coolant was full of oil and black gew. Then they can start investigating they told me... I'll have more info soon.

 

J-F

I hope they save that coolant when they end up having to fix the problem. What did they charge for that coolant ? What was the special product, a cleaner ? or sealer ?

I don t know how much the coolant was but the seller, Honda is paying for all the repairs under warranty. It was a cleaner.

 

Jf

would this still be an issue on a N/A 2008 Outback? I've had to top up the coolant a time or two ... that reminds me I've got to check it again