my blown turbo dillema

First time owner, long time lurker.

 

bought a 05 legacy gt in garnet red with a blown turbo for 3500 from a good friend of mine. shrapnel tinging around in the intercooler end tanks and alot in the cat itself.

 

which brings me to my quandary... My best friend from childhood has an o8 legacy, I think he's a pretty well known guy here, his sn is aarronn and this is his car:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/3031644048_e5e23c2ea0_z.jpg

 

he has a superzilla 18g for me. Plans are to swap this bad boy in. what supporting mods am I going to need? I build s chassis's so sr20det is the name of the game for me. I did as much searching as i could but the only thing substantial i could gather is "ur gonna need tune, injectors, pump, and tmic". I'm assuming i would need a full turbo back as well? i'm assuming protune would be the way to go? walbro 255? what type of injectors would keep me safe... 850cc? could i just go straight to front mount instead of this top mount nonsense? which tune tends to be on the safer side of things if there is even a decent tune? i go full standalone of all my sr20's so i'm not familiar with opensource as much.

 

I would appreciate any help at all. the 240 gameplan is pretty straight forward, and finding setups for the millions of different combinations of turbos for the sr20/2jz's are limitless. it's like suby guys use almost a different family of turbo's excluding the gt28/35's

Contact Infamous1 for tunes. If you are running pump probably just 740cc injectors and wb255 fp. A DP obviously. 1000cc injector if running e85

Sounds like the turbo grenaded, so you've likely got "bits" in the intake (beyond the intercooler), and therefore internal to the engine. There've been several members who have lost entire engines post blown turbo, so before you go the whole route of upgrading to a bigger turbo and "supporting mods" it would be worth your while to make sure that the engine is still "good-to-go".

 

It would be a horrible waste to put everything in, and have it all go "poof" a few hundred miles (or less) into the upgrade. And since you don't know how long the turbo was going, and don't mention how many miles are on the car now, it's possible that this is just a bad candidate for an upgrade. YMMV, and I do wish you success, so keep us posted.

I used a stethiscope to listen for noises and the noise is predominantly in the cat, with i can imagine a couple of bits at either the endtake of the intercooler closest to the turbo of simply the turbo itself. when a turbo grenades, does both compressor and exhaust side disintegrate? i would imagine only the exhaust side would from cat debris... and if that's the case where would the bits settle before the turbo on the cat side... the uppipe?

 

the engine seems to be strong when i start the car. no smoking from what i can tell. I called up another good member here named roman(turbotrix, nj built legacy specb) and was told if the engine runs, it runs. so I guess the next step would be:

take out all plumbing in and out of the engine and check for debris? I'm a service advisor for nissan and we have this notorious cat problem where if the engine starts running rich it dumps fuel into the cat, grenading it and instantly taking out slews of slow little family cars all over the nation... but the damage is almost instantanous. so I believe... i just don't want to yet until i've done all i can to determine my engine's fate

If you've got bits in your intercooler, then the compressor side has blown- but if you can't hear any noise coming from it (the turbo), dunno. Is this the car's first turbo? Could have been replaced, post-grenade of the previous owner's turbo before you got it and you now have a replacement turbo in it???

 

Something doesn't make sense.

first turbo, I'm definite on that. i can't exactly pinpoint the noise because the intercooler noise is just simply louder. it quite literally just happened so i'm hoping that turbo bits didn't get to far

Intercooler noise? Is it leaking? Not sure what this means...

the intercooler end tank near the turbo sounds like a loose bolt in a tin cup. im assuming it's bits of turbo... but the noise doesn't migrate anywhere else in the intercooler... just the end of the intercooler near the turbo.

Okay - that sounds like the turbo compressor-side wheel is gone and is throwing bits of itself into the intercooler. Not a good situation to be running the car with as some of those pieces will ultimately end up in the engine itself. Don't recommend running it until your replace the intercooler and the turbo as a minimum.

An 18G with a proper tune and supporting mods will eat your stock clutch for breakfast. So add that to the list of "supporting mods"

^Yup. True enuf. I expect my vf39 on e85 to liquidate my Exedy Stage1 clutch.

An 18G with a proper tune and supporting mods will eat your stock clutch for breakfast. So add that to the list of "supporting mods"

You think? I ran a 20g with stock clutch for 50k no issues

^Yup. True enuf. I expect my vf39 on e85 to liquidate my Exedy Stage1 clutch.

you call that stage 3? and you beat a corvette?

You think? I ran a 20g with stock clutch for 50k no issues

Thats amazing... I tore up mine after 5k on a stg 2 map putting out 280ft-lbs at the wheels. Are you sure you don't mean 50 miles?

lol ohh clutches should be easy peasy on these cars. I love the way subaru engineers designed the car/drivetrain.

To Quote SBT "make sure that the engine is still good-to-go". I just had a catastrophic failure. Turbo went kablam and took the motor out with it. So now im in a dillemma. Rebuild or donor motor?

 

For the price of it make sure the engine is still fine. I believe if you take the oil pan off and you can see a gold powder, flakey substance, " Your Done Son". Thats the best advice i can give.

can you recount the exact way you came to that conclusion? when did it happen, how did it happen? sounds it made? did you drive the car after the turbo went? did the motor feel any different immediatly or did it take a while for the symptoms of a blown motor to surface? sorry for the amount of questions but it would help me greatly.

isn't it also fairly difficult for turbo bits to actually back into the engine from the turbo in through the intake side... the intercooler is a fairly tight space for anything else but air to really pass through...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/bmybmobile/fins.png?1293763085

 

i'm worried about the exhaust side bits. there are a decent amount of stuff in the cat itself(judging by the amount of noise it makes... sounds like maracas lol) so i'm praying that most of it went to the cat and is just stuck there untill someone takes it out. but if by chance it might have gone the other way... what piping does it go through to go back into the exhaust side of the block? would it have to go towards the ground from the turbo, along the bottom of the motors and back up away from gravity towards the exhaust valves and into the cylinders? my first foray into boxer motors so excuse the lack of knowledge... still learning

Compressor wheel fragments can range in size from a few micros to a few mm, most is the previous and flows right on through the intercooler, straight into the intake, through the valve system, into the combustion chamber and back out the exhaust side where it whacks the turbine wheel if it hasn't already scored the cylinder wall or slipped past the piston rings and into the bearing surfaces, or been picked up by the oil and blocked lubrication flow to one or more critical surfaces.

 

Even if it doesn't flow out of the compressor side, an unbalanced turbo shaft can compromise the oil and water cooling boundary in the CHRA section and pass debris into both of those systems. Remember, that turbine is spinning ferociously at something approaching (and in some cases, exceeding) 100,000 RPM so things can go very wrong in a nano-second and sheared/broken parts are the usual opening casualties to what will (usually) be a much larger destruction campaign.

 

The exhaust side bits are the least of your worries at this point if your compression side is already gone.

This happened a week ago. I was on the way to a mates place and felt the car skip. After that i noticed a loss of power and the engine making a noise almost as if it had an exhaust leak.

 

I pulled over straight away and when i came to a stop smoke came pouring out of the hood. I shut it down and waited to have it towed. I checked underneath and saw oil leaking so i knew something went wrong.

 

I had it towed to the dealer where they assessed the situation. The oil feed pipe which goes into the turbo blew out, apparently its a low pressure pipe and the only thing to cause this would be heat..... It has never leaked oil. The dealer told me that you wouldnt know it leaked oil unless the engine was running, even so i never smelt anything being burnt off or the car eating it. I checked the dip-stick everytime i fill up.

 

From the pipe blowing out it starved the turbo of oil and it blowing apart taking the motor with it. So this point we drained the oil to see if the oil was a milky grey substance which there wasnt and the sump still had plenty of oil in it, which means the engine wasnt starved of oil.

 

Now the next option was to pull the oil pan off and see if there were any pieces in there. No pieces but the dealer said if there was a gold flake/dust substance in the pan, there would be damage to the engine, possibly bearings. The only true way to find out would be to pull the engine apart and find out whats damaged. Cost wise, ive got now idea. Im in Ontario, Canada, so if anyone knows an engine builder or could help me out.

 

Hope this helps....sorry for a story book.

ok... so being as paranoid as i am, I'm going to pull out all the stops to check to see if the engine is still good. I'm thinking:

1. drain old oil. check for gold flakes and metal bits, let car run for a second and change oil again.

2. take uppipe, turbo, intercooler, dp and exhaust, and as much intake plumbing as I can(maybe headers too?). take out the bits of metal rattling around in intercooler, downpipe cat, and possibly turbo.

3. reinstall parts devoid of turbo/catalytic converter bits, install new 18g just to have a working turbo in there, and start car and see if there is a hard start problem, black smoke out the tailpipe, any new tapping/clunking/gridning noises from engine and turbo.

 

short of doing a compression test, what other precautionary measures can I take to make sure my baby's ok?

been reading the major threads/poll on the board for blown turbos and blown engines... and i'm learning alot. more than i think i ever wanted to know but imma get to work and see what i can find.

 

would I need a new tune if I wanted to go with a catless uppipe, catless dp and possibly an exhaust? I've been thinking of what parts I actually want to put back on the car and have been toying with putting a used vf40 back into the car just to make sure things are all gravy under the hood. but if I'm gonna need a new tune for just no cats and some pipes with a stock turbo then i might as well just save up for the supporting mods for a 18g and just... go for it.

 

thoughts? ideas? open to suggestions.

You want a tune if you put in a DP. Find a thread that shows the OEM vs Aftermarket DP bell housing and you'll see why... lol.

 

However, if you just do the DP, etc. you can get away with an OTS map. If you do the turbo, you need a custom tune.

to everyone in this thread that has contributed, thanks very much... especially sbt and gtscoobie. lets cross our fingers but no matter what i'm just glad to finally be in the subaru family, specifically the legacy variant. just ask aarronn, i've been a certified subaru nut since about the 5th grade and I still have pictures of me back then with subaru polos, jackets etc.

 

just happy to be here. i'll update this thread this week when i start tearin stuff off. wish me luck

UPDATE:

pulled the turbo, intercooler, downpipe and uppipe out of the car. there were shards of metal in the downpipe cat, some of which would actually fit right into the breaks in the turbo fins. the exhaust side fins were messed up beyond all recognition. half the fins were gone and the shaft was as loose as a wizard's sleeve. intake side was still intact, fins bent slightly with about 2-3mm of shaft play either side. Definitly loose but not as bad as the exhaust side.

 

No indications of metal present in intake side all the way up to the engine. Uppipe and downpipe cats look good but I plan on chucking all of the stuff that came out anyway. catless uppipe, full catless turbo back, fmic, and walbro 255 are the things I'm going to need and the stuff I already have are the 650cc sidefeed injectors and superzilla 18g. I guess I gotta start thinking about doing a clutch soon too then...