Initial Review - Koni's + Whiteline LCA Bushings + Cobb Sways

Alright there's alot of caveats on this review. My 08 LGT has 82.5k miles on it's original suspension, except the cobb sways were on there. Koni's were swapped in and set on FULL SOFT. Whiteline LCA bushings were put in.

 

An alignment was NOT done yet - I was advised to put a few hundred miles on the suspension to get it settle in and then align it. I can't wait as I think the toe is out on one side. I'll do a totally comprehensive review in about 1-2 weeks with details on bump steer, stability, etc.

 

Lastly, i am riding on High performance all seasons: Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S in 225/45/17 - these have some softness to them and they do roll a bit. Overall though they are very nice performers. They have 27k miles on them and have plenty of tread left.

 

...

 

Initial ride quality on full soft: When I pulled out of the shop, ride quality was a bit firmer/harsher than stock. I put 100 miles on the car on the drive home and by the end I would say ride quality is EQUAL or very slightly better than stock. Again, this is on full soft. It absorbs certain bumps better while others seem to transmit more harshness.

 

Handling/Steering: OMGWTF do not leave home without this setup.....DAMN!

Fellow forum members, I am not shitting you when i say that this setup makes an LGT handle and steer better than a 3-series w/ sport package.

 

I swear the car was transformed into rally car hotness on the way home. I was taking turns at obscene speeds. When large openings allowed, I was doing fast transitions across 2-3 lanes at 80-90mph just to marvel over the fact that it was being done in complete confidence. There was never any feeling of weight transfer - the car felt athletic and balanced.

 

The car turns in instantly. Understeer in pretty much gone. This car is f'ing neutral. The steering is instantaneous with no dead zone and feel has gone up a few notches. It's TOO twitchy right now, but I'm going to try to dial that down with the alignment, some very slight toe-in, and maybe a slight reduction in caster.

 

....

 

I am still hoping the struts are breaking in - I'd like a bit more softness as this is my wife's DD. And I need to get it aligned.

 

But without hesitation if you are looking for outstanding handling & steering: Koni's + Whiteline LCA bushings + Sway Bars = gold.

 

If you are doing the work yourself, you are looking at maybe a $800 investment too.

Nice review Joe. I would suggest that some of the harshness you are feeling may be a result of the Koni's damping being set too low. Remember, you are only adjusting rebound damping, so the firmness associated with suspension compression will be constant. It is just as important to control the rebound of the suspension adequately, so that the corners don't slam down into road surface imperfections.

 

With my Koni/EE setup I found that the middle of the range (1 turn) to slightly over (1.25 turns) was optimal for comfort. I would imagine that since you are using the stock springs you might need slightly less damping, but I would still recommend starting at 1 turn and adjusting from there.

Thanks UD. You know I value your experience in suspension (as opposed to, say, which checking account is best for me)

 

I vaguely remembered some members finding more comfort adjusting firmer the struts. Couldn't remember why or how much.

 

Since it's soooo easy to do, I'll start with 1/2 turn at each corner first (which I believe is about 25% of the range of adjustment) and then go to 1 full turn to feel the difference.

Yeah, I couldn't tell you jack about checking accounts, since I can't hold on to my money long enough to even think about putting it in the bank.

 

As far as suspension stuff goes, it's all just trial & error plus a little critical reasoning. Besides, how much stock would you put in someone who has owned a car going on six years () and is still changing his suspension?

 

See my (rather long-winded) post here from almost three years ago where I attempted to illustrate the "jacking down" phenomenon.

 

When you bought the Konis you bought - in my opinion - the nicest adjustable, fixed-perch shock available for the Legacy. Making adjustments is simple (maybe less so for the rears) so it would behoove you to take advantage of what you paid for. I think you should make a more drastic change, go straight for one turn, so you can more clearly assess the difference.

Thanks. Your comments on the dartiness and the alignment I think are spot on too - I'm going to get an alignment by a subaru dealership (Suby Bucks baby!) and I'm going to request very slight toe-in (like .02) upfront, zero toe rear, stock camber settings, and like a half degree of extra caster in the front from the stock setting (now that the LCA bushings are caster adjustable).

 

Thoughts?

I haven't experimented with toe-in up front, so I can't comment on that.

 

Keeping the stock camber settings is fine. Additional caster will reduce the amount of dynamic camber gain, slightly, and will improve the on-center feel of the steering. Personally I think leaving camber on the table up front is pointless... you can't get too much negative camber with the stock setup, especially at stock height. However, if you are never pushing it to the point of understeer, then you really don't need to improve front-end grip.

 

I would go for as much additional caster as possible while keeping it within reason between the two sides. Again, I don't think you can get too much caster with the bushing kit alone and more is definitely better unless you want super light (read: vague) steering.

FYI, caster INCREASES dynamic camber gain, not decreases. Due to that, it allows you to run less static camber since camber increases faster as you turn the wheel.

Sorry, I confused everything by saying "reduces camber gain" to mean reduces the amount of POSITIVE camber gain as a net effect of steering and suspension compression.

 

Since the phrase "dynamic camber gain" means the increase in NEGATIVE camber as an effect of the wheel pivoting on it's steering axis, my sentence is wrong.

 

Otherwise, would you say my assessment is more or less correct, Josh?

Looks like AZP treated you as well as they treated me. I want/need to convince myself to get on this soon. She's been feeling a little boaty lately.

 

Edit: Joe, on factory springs still or did you jump to something like Epics?

Sorry, I confused everything by saying "reduces camber gain" to mean reduces the amount of POSITIVE camber gain as a net effect of steering and suspension compression.

 

Since the phrase "dynamic camber gain" means the increase in NEGATIVE camber as an effect of the wheel pivoting on it's steering axis, my sentence is wrong.

 

Otherwise, would you say my assessment is more or less correct, Josh?

 

 

yes. i would say that you can never get too much front grip as that is always lacking in our cars due to its weight and weight distribution. as for caster, some say that too much positive cast decreases quick transitional response since, though dynamic camber increases, dynamic toe decreases per amount of turned wheel. this is only theory though. i haven't personally experienced it

While I'm at it, did you wait and get everything done or was this a 2 day ordeal? If I can convince myself at some point, I would need it all done in a day between springs, struts, and alignment.

Bolksey - AZP treated me well. One of the very few surprises was that they don't do the alignment in the same day unless told to by the customer (against their recommendation).

 

They asked me if i could come back for the alignment and I was surprised because this was a 100 mile/2 hour drive for me, but they said it will make a difference in letting the new LCA bushing settle in.

 

So right now my car is un-aligned and let me tell you - the steering wheel is slightly off center and it's pulling to the right a bit, and I can't get into a shop again for a week. Sad thing is that i'm going to wind up putting ~1000 miles on the car before i get it aligned, so hopefully I'm not creating a high wear spot on one or more tires.

 

I showed up at 9:30 and left at 4:30 and they easily knocked out the Koni install, LCA bushing install, and replacing my front sway bar clamps & bushings.

 

Bolksey - I forget where in PA you are but I'll be happy to give you a ride once I get it aligned and sort out the setting on the Koni's. Also, I'm on stock springs.

One additional observation for general consideration: I'm fairly certain that the whiteline bushings are notably increasing interior sound levels from road noise and "harshness" associated with the tire slap of hitting a bump. I'm realizing that the ride quality is definitely a tad bit better than the OEM struts after 82.5k miles, but that I'm hearing a good amount more road noise and noises associated with hitting imperfections. And when I do hit a jarring bump, it SOUNDS worse than it feels.

 

While they are wonderful, I am asking myself right now if I would do them again vs. putting in the crappy OEM bushing, which would tear again in 60-80k miles. This is my wife's DD, so I want a controlled ride with good handling but I don't want any increase in NVH.

Just adjusted my Koni's one full turn from full soft. Amazing how easy it is in this car to adjust front and rear. Putting 200 miles on the car tomorrow - hopefully I like the setting. Bringing a knob with me in case I can't stand it

Great write up Joe!

 

I've been on my Koni/Eibach combo for a couple years now and I think I must be getting used to it as I've been thinking about a change to some coilovers or at least adding a sway set. I've got the JDM rear bar and OEM front on there currently.

 

Oh yeah, I've also got the AVO offset bushings (increases caster I believe).

 

Anyway, thanks for your impressions!

 

Cheers!

Dialed in one full turn this morning on all struts and then drove ~250 miles. Ride comfort and compliance definitely increased compared to full soft. Not an amazing transformation, but definitely there. Interestingly, I wouldn't say any real change in handling characteristics was felt - slight increase in controlled weight transfer.

 

It's almost humorous how quickly I comfortably get to overwhelming the tires now. The car's suspension and chassis finally feels like it WANTS to get to a point well beyond the tire's capabilities. Now, truly, the tires feel like the limiting factor - whereas before it felt like the suspension.

That sounds about right. Remember that body roll - a side effect of weight transfer - is a relatively low speed event as far as the shock piston velocity is concerned. Hitting a pothole or dip in the road at (vehicle) speed is typically a much higher (piston) speed event. Rebound adjustments usually do not shift the entire curve equally, and therefore it is totally within reason that you might feel a difference in "comfort and compliance", but not as much during quick transitions.

 

Glad you are enjoying the setup thus far. Once you have the Konis dialed in I suspect you will start looking for bracing to take the slop, but not the comfort/compliance, out of the suspension.

 

Oh, and if you haven't yet, it's time to invest in dedicated summer & winter rubber.

I was always told to adjust the Konis from full stiff and back out incrementally to it is where

you want it. I started mine 1-1/4 from full stiff in the front and 1-1/2 in the rear. I ended

up closer to two full turns from full stiff on the front and left the rear alone, partially cause

they are a bitch to adjust. I use it as a daily setup and it handles amazing with the rest

of my suspension setup. Living in NY, they are have themselves over the underkept

road system.

 

Will be going to AZP this Saturday and doing AVO front and rear bushings for the control

arms. Hopefully they will be able to do the alignment as well without having me come

back.

I'm running the Koni's/AVO bushings/Hotchkiss swaybars. Night and day difference. I'm currently running 1 and 1/2 turns from full soft and I love it!

Thanks for the kind words guys. Whenever installing springs/struts, we like to let it settle for 200 miles before an alignment. We rather see someone go local for the alignment than have us do it and it not be 100%.

 

-mike

 

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I'm doing Koni's/LGT tophats with my stock SpecB springs within the next week or two (all the parts are sitting here, just waiting on the motivation ), but good to see there are other function over form drivers out there. A more controlled ride is so much better than a low, hard one. These will be the first suspension mods to my car, and I've been pondering sways to go with them, and they sound like a good investment.

 

I'm staying away from control arm bushing upgrades because of the noise transfer you mentioned.

I've got Koni's and I would recommend if you are looking for compliance to start at the low end and adjust by one notch on the knob. They are valved in such a way as those notches line up with valving inside there. In my experience a single notch is noticeable. I am running on Rallitek springs though.

 

Mike or anyone really... . I am considering putting the stock springs back on for one main issue that I can't seem to solve, so please advise if you can. The ride bounces a bit, like it is under dampened. If I run the shocks up it goes a way but the ride gets much stiffer over small bumps and it is unpleasant. I liked how the springs took out height, increased the resistance to squat and dive, and took out some roll. I'd like a nice ride like stock, without all the bouncing, no dive and squat (little is okay), and less roll. I figured I needed springs to solve the dive and squat so I went with Rallitek because there numbers seem to indicate they should provide the best ride (least stiff spring). Can't say over long term I have super happy with them.

 

Now I must admit that this is partially to blame because I own two Legacy's. My wifes 05 4EAT with no leather(weight) handles much better in terms of compliance, squat isn't that much but she is missing 100hp, and could just use sways and it would be much nicer to drive then mine.

 

So anyone offer some words of advice? Thanks!

I've got Koni's and I would recommend if you are looking for compliance to start at the low end and adjust by one notch on the knob. They are valved in such a way as those notches line up with valving inside there. In my experience a single notch is noticeable. I am running on Rallitek springs though.

 

Mike or anyone really... . I am considering putting the stock springs back on for one main issue that I can't seem to solve, so please advise if you can. The ride bounces a bit, like it is under dampened. If I run the shocks up it goes a way but the ride gets much stiffer over small bumps and it is unpleasant. I liked how the springs took out height, increased the resistance to squat and dive, and took out some roll. I'd like a nice ride like stock, without all the bouncing, no dive and squat (little is okay), and less roll. I figured I needed springs to solve the dive and squat so I went with Rallitek because there numbers seem to indicate they should provide the best ride (least stiff spring). Can't say over long term I have super happy with them.

 

Now I must admit that this is partially to blame because I own two Legacy's. My wifes 05 4EAT with no leather(weight) handles much better in terms of compliance, squat isn't that much but she is missing 100hp, and could just use sways and it would be much nicer to drive then mine.

 

So anyone offer some words of advice? Thanks!

 

You could give stock springs a try. I'm not 100% sure it will solve the issue but it might. Worth a shot.

 

-mike

 

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11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

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I have to agree with apex, I'm not at all impressed with my setup after a few days. I have epic/Konis, whiteline control arm bushings, rallitek sways. I've owned a few lowered cars and have drive some oem cars with great suspensions and is setup seems really bouncy or too stiff. I'm gonna google the epic spring rates to judge them against stock.

Hotchef - You are cobblin together a suspension. Your springs aren't matched to your struts and it's really hard to accurately dial-in rebound damping appropriate to your car, yourself. Remember you put struts on that have a fixed compression rate that may not well match the springs.

 

You can get rid of the bouncy/stiff ride quality by getting rid of the springs, too.