Tokico struts - Answer from Tokico about fitment

OK, I just got off the phone with Tokico. Their "fitment test" was basically a bust, as the discovered what we have been telling them all along. The shocks don't fit properly.

 

The rep tried to tell me I could just swap in JDM tophats, and I explained to him (for the 3rd time) why that wouldn't work without swapping springs.

 

Basically their response is that they are going to do some research, and decide what they are going to do. NO ETA on a solution. They will refund on shocks that are returned, but you need to work through your vendor.

 

My opinion of this whole mess is that someone said "hey we sell Legacy shocks in Japan, let's just repackage them and sell them in the US". Nobody bothered to check and see if they would fit. I would assume these are not going to be available for much longer. I did explain to them they would work fine on a Spec B....which doesn't really need struts.

 

I don't know what I'm going to do at this point... but I can tell you I'm not pleased.

What a disappointment.

At least they didn't say that they fit fine

What a disappointment.

 

+1

 

There goes that plan...

You should mention to them that the 08 WRX will be built off of a modified Legacy platform...

 

More than likely they'll be able to use the shocks on the WRX as well

Thanks Rodan for the many phone calls to Tokico. At least you got them to recognize there is a problem and agree to take them back if people are unhappy. However, so far the shocks work well with the H&R springs and I will likely keep them on the car (unless Tokico is paying to take them off :lol:). Unfortunately, until the Konis become available there are no other reasonably priced alternatives currently on the market. If the setup was dangerous I would imagine Tokico's lawyers would be all over it. Very sloppy (or non-existing) testing on Tokico's part though.

 

Darrin at West End used a thinner washer between the top hat and spring mounting cap which allowed me to get a few more threads under the nut (see the pics below). The stock washer is on the left in the first picture. The second picture shows that the self-locking part of the bolt never grabs the threads on the shaft. With a little bit of Loctite it seems like everything should hold together over time. Still don't know why they machined a notch into the top part of the shaft. My guess is for their trick little adjuster to work. I accidentally left mine at the shop and have been using a modified 3mm allen wrench instead and it works just fine.

 

Kevin

Wow! the second pic is a little scary to me. Even with the thinner washer there is barely anything threads being engaged on the shaft. I'm sure that with some Loctite it will hold, but that is not even close to what it should be.

That's just dangerous, guys. If your top nuts comes loose & you hit a large pothole, the strut shaft can come loose & nasty things will happen.

 

To give you an idea, I reused the OEM locknuts when I fitted the Bilsteins & those nuts came loose. That was with *all* threads engaged & the nuts snug down good & proper.

 

Best of luck with a couple of threads engaged

Wow! the second pic is a little scary to me. Even with the thinner washer there is barely anything threads being engaged on the shaft. I'm sure that with some Loctite it will hold, but that is not even close to what it should be.

 

it's not under load once on the car unless you are taking it off sweet jumps!!

Actually, every time the suspension extends/rebounds, there is some load there, because the strut is working to control the extension. It won't become extreme unless the suspension is completely unloaded. I have been keeping a close eye on mine, and haven't had any issues. I have been putting off the alignment 'till this gets sorted, and I'd really like to get that done soon...

 

At this point, I'm debating whether to spend the $350 to get the JDM tophats and correct iON fronts, or to use that money and return the struts and just switch to coilovers... I really like the ride/handling combination I have now, so I'm leaning towards getting the tophats and springs.

 

It's really unfortunate that we're into the third model year in the US, and there's no aftermarket struts available that fit without screwing around. I bet you can buy 5 or 6 different kinds of shocks for an '05 Mustang...

At this point, I'm debating whether to spend the $350 to get the JDM tophats and correct iON fronts, or to use that money and return the struts and just switch to coilovers... I really like the ride/handling combination I have now, so I'm leaning towards getting the tophats and springs.

 

Let me know if you go the tophat/spring route. I would consider buying them as well and maybe we can save a few bucks on the canadian side of the order.

There are actually more threads engaged on the shaft then it looks like in the picture and I think the bolt Tokico supplied is taller than the stock one (all from memory). Still, I can't argue that it is not ideal. Mach V Dan has been driving on Tokico's for at least a year now with no issues and he has even fewer threads engaged then my setup with the thinner washer. Rodan is right that there are vertical loads on the shaft everytime the suspension moves up and down, with a bit of lateral loading as well. As long as the bolts are torqued properly and the bearing doesn't compress under load then there shoudn't be a problem. If the bolt backs out a bit or the threads stretch, then the shaft will begin to move around between the bolt and washer and could eventually fail.

 

Second the parts situation as well. You can get Konis with springs from Neuspeed for a TSX for only $600, about what I paid for the Tokicos only. It just really sucks sometimes how expensive parts for our cars can be and how economies of scale work for Honda/Acuras.

 

On the plus side our turbo motor allows for relatively inexpensive power gains compared to the TSX.

 

This whole experience does make me wonder how the KW coilovers would work out. They seem to get good reviews in terms of ride quality, which is IMHO the main problem with most coilover setups on the street. By the time you swap out top hats and buy new springs to fit them, have them installed, aligned, etc. the Tokicos don't look like such a great deal.

economies of scale work for Honda/Acuras.

The laws of economics can be a b!tch sometimes.

You replaced the hemispherical washer with a plain flat washer ?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24588&d=1158388878

 

Isn't the OEM washer hemispherical for a reason ?

I think everyone that bought to Tokicos should just buy the Spec B top hats ($100) and a set of JDM springs. There are JDM Spec B takeoffs floating around, and nearly every set of aftermarket springs except for Ions are for JDM set ups. Tein H or S techs can be had for a reasonable price.

 

Everyone jumped on the Tokico bandwagon with their eyes closed. The first question I asked was whether you had to use the Spec B top hats. Nobody had the answer until they received their shipments. This misunderstanding is probably more the fault of some overzealous performance part importers hoping to fill a niche than it is of Tokico.

Hate to sound biased here, but if you have to spend $100 on Spec B top hats and $200 for springs on top of a $700 set of struts, why not consider spending a touch LESS for a set of MR coilovers? For the more performance oriented guys, you gain tons of adjustability and the ability to rebuild the dampeners. I'm going to guess that that ride will be a bit less compliant (but still perfectly comfortable) than with the Tokicos and mild lowering springs, but the handling will be better... and most importantly THEY FIT!

 

Suspension is a critical safety component of your car. I wouldn't take chances with a part that only sort of fits, or might work. That's my $0.02. For guys wanting to stay with stock configuration shocks, I'd wait for the Konis or for Tokico to release a USDM specific model. I just do not like the looks of how the top hats fit right now.

why? most coilovers are noisy, finicky, need rebuilds and most are geared towards hardcore track users. I had a set and they didn't pass muster......speedbumps were BRUTAL and ride quality more appropriate for a track car and not a leather clad sport sedan/wagon. YMMV. there's a reason companies like Ohlins make fixed perch struts as well.

why not consider spending a touch LESS for a set of MR coilovers?

 

You know what midwest winters and salt do to coilovers?

You know what midwest winters and salt do to coilovers?

 

 

Make them better ???

Mine came to the vendor directly from Tokico USA. I personally checked the fitment with Tokico BEFORE ordering, as did several others here. The part number we received was listed by Tokico as being for '05 up US Legacy GT. They aslo carried the "HTS" label, rather than the "D-Spec" that a couple of folks (Mach V Dan and Boulderguy) obtained from the JDM sources, indicating a different part. I think we did everything we could except actually install the struts, and somebody has to be first...

 

Ultimately, Tokico said they were for the US Legacy, and they aren't. They didn't do their homework.

 

I like the ride, and after giving it some thought, I think I'm going to get the Bilstein tophats, and proper iON springs. As noted by PatGT, coilovers just aren't really what I'm after, and I don't want to take a $$ gamble on whether the ride will be acceptable. It's just aggravating to be into the third year of production, and aftermarket manufacturers are still bringing parts to market that don't fit...

Make them better ???

Not the set I saw come off a car after one winter here.

You know what midwest winters and salt do to coilovers?

 

I have no recent personal experience with harsh winters since I live in Southern California, but I was born and lived in Toronto, Canada for 15 years, so I do know about snow. fweasel, do you think that bodies of regular shocks are made of different material than the those of coilovers. Nope. Most are painted or powder coated plain steel. Both have an equal chance at rusting.

 

If you live in the snowbelt and want coilovers you will not have to worry about in the elements, get the KW's. They are built from stainless steel and will be extremely corrosion resistant.

If you live in the snowbelt and want coilovers you will not have to worry about in the elements, get the KW's. They are built from stainless steel and will be extremely corrosion resistant.

You bring up an excellent point. It depends on the materials used in construction. The problem I witnessed had nothing to do with the dampner itself, rather the exterior threads and lock rings were basically gacked and seized.

why? most coilovers are noisy, finicky, need rebuilds and most are geared towards hardcore track users. I had a set and they didn't pass muster......speedbumps were BRUTAL and ride quality more appropriate for a track car and not a leather clad sport sedan/wagon. YMMV. there's a reason companies like Ohlins make fixed perch struts as well.

 

The one set of coilovers you had might have been noisy and "finicky", but not all are that way. Are coilovers more prone to making the occasional noise. Yes. I've owned multiple sets of different coilovers and they have all made an occasional creak or groan. Nothing to get worked up over. Of the one I have personal experience with, the KW's are virtually as silent as stock.

 

I think a lot of people have a misconception as to what a coilover is. It's a shock with a threaded body. Nothing more, nothing less. Calibrate that shock the same way as a fixed perch strut and put a spring of the same stiffness on it and they two will ride and handle exactly the same. The coilover will just let you infinately adjust your ride height, and maintain compression travel as you lower the car. That is a good thing, and there is no downside.

 

Most coilovers are configured to be more stiffly sprung and firmly dampened than most replacement fixed perch struts and aftermarket lowering springs. They are going to be firmer and more well controlled than stock. For many people that is a very good thing, especially for the same price as a fixed perch option.

8k/8k springs are too much for general street use. Most coilovers are close to that range. Also...mine were SS, yet after one season used in Colorado, were difficult to adjust. Corrosion had locked the threads. There's a reason it's recommended to make sure your lockrings and adjusters are moved every six months. In the rarified air that is SoCal, this isn't a big deal. For those of us who see salted roads, coilovers are high maintenance.

 

Let's keep this on-topic - I think all those who've posted understand that we are talking about two different customers here.