07 spec.B Headed to The Dealership for "The Dip" - Advice?

Hey folks, I've been lurking for a little while now, and from what I've read, it seems this "stutter, hesitation, power dip, etc." is a crappy and dealer-unresolvable problem until a reflash is made available (which may or may not fix things), and I've been notified by phone that there's no dealer-available reflash at the moment for the '07.

 

I've read the theories about the whole ULEV thing, and that they WON'T fix it, but I figure it's kind of my responsibility to get my problem on the record so that they can't say that they "have no record of the hesitation problem", which they did state by email. So, I'm taking my 07 spec.B in for diagnostics and inspection on Tuesday.

 

Is there anyone out there who's gotten through to a dealership tech about the issue? What did you say or do to make sure that they acknowledged that this wasn't just turbo lag, or intended operation of the vehicle?

 

I actually contacted SOA first, and got a case number from them, and notified them of my appointment on Tuesday so that they can get in touch with the tech, and refer them to the technical helpline if necessary. Anything else I should do to make sure that everything is covered and done by the book?

Keep us posted on the outcome.

Sure will. I can't say I'm expecting much but "it's turbo lag" or "normal operation", but I figure it'll benefit folks in the future if SOA says "We haven't encountered this issue for the 2007 spec.B".

 

You can call 'em on it right there, and cite case #989441, as an instance where they received the same exact complaint as you've got.

 

In fact, here's the email I sent 'em:

I've been the owner of an '07 spec.B for about 3000 miles now, and I've been noticing a pretty pronounced hesitation/jerkiness under power at around 3-4000 RPM. This is happening most noticeably in S# mode, but it's definitely there in S and I mode as well.

 

In addition, it seems to be present at both partial and full throttle. I spoke to a Subaru Tech at the Cherry Hill Dealership, and he mentioned that some '07 STi owners were noticing the same problem.

 

This isn't a turbo lag thing. I owned an '03 WRX for two years, and I know what lag feels like. The turbo spools up, with the characteristic kick in the pants, then this 'shudder'.

 

I'm fairly certain that this isn't the intended operation of the car. While there are some quirks in the the feel of power delivery on a turbo powerplant, this just feels wrong.

 

The folks at my dealership say that there isn't an ECU reflash or a TSB out for another fix for this issue. I'm hoping that you folks at SOA have a little more information about this performance problem on a big-name car.

 

And here's the email they sent back:

 

Thank you for contacting the Customer/Dealer Services Department of Subaru of America, Inc. We regret the circumstances that prompted you to contact us.

 

Currently we have not heard of a concern with a hesitation concern with a 2007 Legacy GT Spec B vehicle. I am unsure as to whether or not the Subaru dealer has had a chance to diagnose it or just simply discussed this concern with you, but if they have not inspected the vehicle then please take the vehicle to them.

 

If you would like for us to follow up with the dealer during the next inspection, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-782-2783, refer to Case #989441 and provide us with the appointment date and time.

 

So they told me they'd never heard of it, but now they can't say it to you. Even if I don't get a fix before I have to buy an AccessPort in Summer, at least I've done my part for you fine people

Hey Shortbus, thanks for the leg work.

 

I have not noticed the hesitation you are experiencing. I do, however, have some kind of misfire or pop that occurs when the engine is warm and at idle. like it skips a fire every 30 seconds or so. I thought it was something turbo related initially, but now i'm not so sure.

 

I intend to go to the my local dealer and have been looking for other owners that are experiencing engine probs.

 

Hope you get good service and a satisfactory resolution!

I just bought an 07 legacy gt and i believe i have the same exact problem. It pisses me off. When i switch from first to second it like it hesitates badly and jumps back into throttle and its not my shifting because i have had at least 6 other people drive my car 3 of witch are sti owners with alot more power than stock that track their car. So its not the driving and its not normal turbo lag. The legacy is laggy when you floor it but there is a big difference between lag and falling out of power hesitating abruptly then getting back into the power band. Keep us updated....

Subscribed, 5eat

I just bought an 07 legacy gt and i believe i have the same exact problem. It pisses me off. When i switch from first to second it like it hesitates badly and jumps back into throttle and its not my shifting because i have had at least 6 other people drive my car 3 of witch are sti owners with alot more power than stock that track their car. So its not the driving and its not normal turbo lag. The legacy is laggy when you floor it but there is a big difference between lag and falling out of power hesitating abruptly then getting back into the power band. Keep us updated....

 

You don't have to convince us....we know we aren't crazy. I came from a WRX, then an STI. I've never had an automatic transmission in any of my 8 cars, so I know it isn't driver error. This is an engine management or throttle problem that is neck poppingly noticeable. Very irritating problem after paying 35k for a car.

There are so many threads on this. LoL

I rarely notice hesitation anymore after going with a TDC Stage 1 base map. I've had this map for 8 months.

 

 

(maybe also because after 2 years, my driving style has evolved into one that knows how to stay way from the studder...? I don't know...)

There are so many threads on this. LoL

 

Yeah, I know, and I'm sorry. I thought it would be good to have a single case number to reference, and a documented process of contact with dealer techs and SoA from beginning to what is hopefully a satisfactory end, as sort of a walkthrough for owners in the future. I'm trying to give you guys as much ammo as possible to put pressure on SoA for a real fix. I shouldn't have to go aftermarket for this.

 

With that in mind, here's my update, and my invoice, line for line:

 

Client states vehicle bucks/loses power/recovers -- not tubo lag

Techline case no.990-541

Subaru tech asst stated that different modes of intellishift

change the fuel curve and that if changing setting corrects

concern operation is normal

no updates or reflash available

concern corrected with intellishift adjustment

 

So yeah, the tech at the dealership essentially was told to flip from S to I mode, and try again, and the guy didn't experience the problem. They fed me (through him) a line about adaptive software that learns my driving style and smooths out over time. I'm more than a little skeptical. He lectured me (poorly) on the nature of SI-Drive, and I left, only to get an inconclusive call from SoA. They say they'll call me back tomorrow with more information.

 

I'm expecting a call from SoA tomorrow morning so I can talk to the folks who walked the dealer tech through things, and hopefully get something in writing that says either "your erratically performing vehicle is acting normally" so I can start documenting and pestering, or "we're aware of the issue, and are working to resolve" so I can start documenting and pestering

 

So that's where we are now, more as news develops.

Short Bus

 

I appricate you doing this for all of us. I own currently own a 98 bg subaru legacy which is a whole story in tis self. The main reason I want to talk to you about this problem as im looking to buy a 2007 limted or spec b. im not gonna spend 30k plus on a car that dosnt run right. Im going to contact a tuner frined of mione and see what he has heard. Also the guy who runs the service dept at the subaru dealership by my office. Please keep us posted on the call that SOA is sapose to do. I would rather know what im walking into then joining everyone who seems to have this problem. If this keeps up seems like it might make a hell of a law suit.

 

Please contact me persoanlly of you would liek to discuss more

mjljets@aol.com

 

-Matt

I wasn't knocking you ShortBus, I was just stating basically "A ton of people have these problems, so there are a ton of threads" Thanks for documenting everything you've done, I've already taken mine to the dealership and had them log that I noticed problems with a stutter not related to boost. They said they aren't authorized to do a flash until the stutter is 4-5 seconds, mine is only like 2, which is still extremely lame, but whatever, I just don't expect it to not stutter until they either release a fix or AP releases a version for 07'. Heard people that have done aftermarket flashes it has completely removed the stutter.

 

It just gets frustrating after talking to dealership/soa after awhile because you can tell they are talking out of their ass, especially when you take a take for a spin with a tech and the car falls on it's face and he tries to explain how that's normal. LOL

^ 4-5 sec?

 

Jeez, you could in a serious accident if it hiccuped that long!

^ 4-5 sec?

 

Jeez, you could in a serious accident if it hiccuped that long!

 

Tell me about it...their reasoning obviously has no thought behind it.

*sigh*

 

Spoke to Someone at SoA on Wednesday, and they said "We're aware of the problem, but there's no fix right now. We're taking it seriously, and we're sending it to Fuji in Japan for them to take a look at it."

 

I asked them to send me an email stating that, and to forward me anything they send off to Fuji, but I've got no email yet. The office doesn't open up til 10:30, so I'm gonna call up and gripe at 'em then.

 

In other news, my cd player is on the fritz. Sounds like the changer magazine is getting hung up, and I keep getting a "press eject" message. This is awesome.

In other news, my cd player is on the fritz. Sounds like the changer magazine is getting hung up, and I keep getting a "press eject" message. This is awesome.

 

Completely unacceptable. I hope you have brighter days.

Yeah, me too. Just spoke to SoA again. The guy who was supposed to send me an email yesterday was in the office, and in my file yesterday but didn't send me anything. He's apparently got a senior rep involved too.

 

I've got a service appointment tomorrow for the CD player. SoA says they're not aware of this issue, either. Looks like I'm a Subaru gremlin pioneer

That sucks! any new info?

Not really. My rep is dragging his backside. He's apparently in contact with a senior rep, and that senior rep is working on a writeup for Fuji over in Japan. He told me on Wednesday or Thursday that he'd send me an email, but he never did.

 

I called him up just now. He talked real fast and told me he'd be sending me an email, but I don't expect any groundbreaking revelations. I just want it in writing.

 

The CD player thing *seems* to have cleared up, so I canceled my service appointment for that. I'll just keep an eye on it. I'll let everyone know what's in the fabled email when it shows up.

Looks like SoA is getting involved directly. They're going to have a Field Service Manager take a look at it next week. Here's the email I just received:

 

The current concern with your 2007 Legacy Spec B, hesitation, has been

thoroughly reviewed by Delaware Subaru and Subaru of America, Inc. At

this time, there is no documentation showing that there has been a

common hesitation concern with the 2007 Spec B vehicles. We would like

to coordinate an inspection of your vehicle with our Field Service

Manager. We would like to inspect the vehicle Thursday May 3, 2007 at

Cherry Hill Subaru. Please email us or contact us at 1-800-782-2783 to

confirm whether or not you will be available at that time.

 

I'm guessing I won't hear anything until then, except perhaps a confirmation. Tune in next week, I suppose.

Shot Bus that is awesome. Maybe i will end up getting the legacy now over the Sti. I just dont want headachs.

 

-Matt

Shot Bus that is awesome. Maybe i will end up getting the legacy now over the Sti. I just dont want headachs.

 

-Matt

 

Don't be afraid. Get the Legacy!! Better insurance rates and stealth with police officers had me sold.

Hey guys, I just wanted to throw this out there. As ShortBus said, Subaru "Never heard of such a problem.".

 

Well, my sales manager and service manager both said the same. Never had a customer complaint of this stutter. When I took the car in, they had me take a tech for a ride to show him the problem. We had a little convo that went like this:

 

Me - "So, ever experience this before?"

Him - "Oh yea, we had two vehicles in the shop for this same problem..."

Me - "Oh really? And how did you fix it?"

Him - "We couldn't, Subaru had to buy one of the cars back..."

 

According to this guy, SOA had to buy one of these cars back for this reason, right here in my backyard, yet they are making claims this is ground breaking news?

these were the reasons i ditched my 06 gti with dsg...

Alrighty, I just got off the phone with my Regional Field Service Tech. First thing he said was "Did you notice that I didn't call you out here today to drive the car?"

 

Yeah, the dude's on my side, and acknowledges that the Speccy ain't behaving like she should. He described the issue in his own words, shot straight, and talked to me like I was a car guy instead of a stupid customer.

 

He datalogged a couple of runs where he noticed the issue, and the info is already in Japan for the Fuji engineers to analyze. They're in the middle of a biggole national holiday, so nobody's gonna be looking at it til Monday, But hey, they've acknowledged the problem, and it's gone straight to the source.

 

He said that this is the first 07 spec.B that they've got on record for this problem, but they definitely know about it now. If you get flak from your service departement or SoA, tell them that John Dale, a Regional (Northeast, I guess? Jersey?) Field Service Tech, knows about and has logged the issue for an '07 spec.B on 5/3/07.

 

More as news develops. Might be a couple weeks though. Stay tuned.