How are the NA Legacy's ?

I've been searching around alot for a LGT and have come to the unfortunate conclusion that, financially, it'd be a really dumb move to buy one right now. With the way gas prices keep getting worse and worse, I question whether I want a car that I always need to put 93 octane in. Insurance cost is another factor, I'm sure the GT's are a bit more than a base model.

Ive seen some really good prices on mildy used NA Legacy's, but have completely ignored them out of my desire for a GT. I am holding out on the hope that a certain car that has a pending sale here falls through, but if it doesn't, I might just abandon the idea altogether and look for something else.

How is the power in the non-turbo models? Is it adequate, or are they complete dogs? I'm talking manual transmission only, BTW... Is the gas mileage much better on them (I realize that turbo cars aren't that bad on gas if you can keep your foot out of it).

My Buick is only drag radials away from real low 12's, so I'm questioning whether I really need another fast car, or am just aiming beyond my means . I'm afraid of buying something I really didn't want though and be stuck paying on it. Just looking for opinions on how the NA models are *sigh*

Is it possible to find an '05 and up Legacy GT with <30,000 miles for around $16,000 ? From as much as I've been looking, I sure haven't seen it

Thanks !

When I bought my LGT, I considered the spec B, LGT and N/A versions. I drove them all. The N/A ones would have been far, far cheaper to buy. The dealer where I bought my car had an 07 with 6k miles that I was offered for $10 plus my Mazda 6 (worth about $7k on the trade). Blue, manual. Looked brand new.

I found that only the spec B had noticably better handling. That makes sense as it's the only one with the upgraded shocks. The power was reasonable. If it had another....maybe 20hp, I might have more strongly considered one. Drive one. For everyday driving, it's going to be fine.

I don't know what the N/A ones get for mileage. Although many people think an LGT running on 87 octane will make the world blow up.....well, that's all I run in mine. I keep exact gallons and mileage numbers. My mileage to date (just hitting 3k miles) has varied from 27 to 30mpg for combined driving. I've had no long trips yet. I drive in I mode almost all the time.

I strongly considered buying a N/A model. If I had, I added up what I'd be buying. Exhaust, intake, leather aftermarket, chip or tuning, wheels/tires and most importantly, a rear LSD. Adding up the numbers, it didn't make sense for me, but I could afford pretty much any car. I just want the best value for what I need. If the LGT came in a downrated version with the WRX 227hp setup for $3k less, I would have jumped on that.

Test drive a regular N/A legacy. Be sure they have the tires properly inflated. Going into excessive debt for a car is silly.

jack

I've been searching around alot for a LGT and have come to the unfortunate conclusion that, financially, it'd be a really dumb move to buy one right now. With the way gas prices keep getting worse and worse, I question whether I want a car that I always need to put 93 octane in. Insurance cost is another factor, I'm sure the GT's are a bit more than a base model.

Ive seen some really good prices on mildy used NA Legacy's, but have completely ignored them out of my desire for a GT. I am holding out on the hope that a certain car that has a pending sale here falls through, but if it doesn't, I might just abandon the idea altogether and look for something else.

How is the power in the non-turbo models? Is it adequate, or are they complete dogs? I'm talking manual transmission only, BTW... Is the gas mileage much better on them (I realize that turbo cars aren't that bad on gas if you can keep your foot out of it).

My Buick is only drag radials away from real low 12's, so I'm questioning whether I really need another fast car, or am just aiming beyond my means . I'm afraid of buying something I really didn't want though and be stuck paying on it. Just looking for opinions on how the NA models are *sigh*

 

Is it possible to find an '05 and up Legacy GT with <30,000 miles for around $16,000 ? From as much as I've been looking, I sure haven't seen it

 

Thanks !

I'm sure a lot of the guys here will tell you the 2.5i is a dog because they're used to their sweet LGTs... but I just bought an '06 2.5i wagon with the 5MT. We needed a family sized car, wanted AWD and good fuel efficiency... and with this car we got all of that.

While you're not going to be wow'd by the 2.5i's acceleration, it does have decent enough pick up with the manual... and being an avid snowboarder in Colorado, we take it up into the mountains all the time and it does fine on all the mountain passes (which are some of the biggest/steepest in the country). Now, you're not blowing by other cars up the passes, but you're not dogging it either.

Right now, in the Winter, we're averaging 27 mpg. Most of that is driving on state highways (avg. 50 mph) and around town, while also having to warm the car up if it's really cold for our daughter. I'm not sure what the realistic mpg is for the LGTs.

We bought our '06 2.5i SE wagon in Boulder County (the Subbie capital of the World) with 23,000 miles on it for $17,000. So I doubt you'll be able to find an LGT of similar mileage for a similar price.

So, if high performace/burly accerelation is not a high priority, then I'd say you'll like the 2.5i - but if you want to try to blow people off the line, then I'd say you won't like the 2.5i

Hope that helps

I was in the same exact shoes as you are now about 3 months ago. I wanted the LGT Wagon MT. Couldn't find any nearby, and the rest was priced at 23k+ for cars with 50k+ mileages. Out of shear desperation I jumped on a 2006 2.5i Wagon MT. I don't regret it one bit. I'm not going to lie, it is slow. But where it lacks in acceleration, it makes up with handling. I swear this car behaves more predictable and neutral than my other cars ('00 Golf and '01 Sentra SE).

The mpg numbers vary a lot though. My regular commute to work is 3.5 miles, and I average just slightly over 19mpg. On trips, if you keep the speed below 80, then you'll see 26+ mpg.

^^3.5 miles is not enough for the CATS to warm up and the engine to reach peak efficiency, i'm not surprise by your gas mileage given that

The 2.5i is a fine car or wagon. I love mine! It handles like on rails. Its not a barn burner. When you drive a Turbo you feel that even V6's are slow, its just the nature of the Turbo in the way it brings the power. Everytime I drive my friend's Saab Turbo and then get back into the 2.5i I feel like something is missing. Solution: I've stopped driving his Turbo LOL:D

^^3.5 miles is not enough for the CATS to warm up and the engine to reach peak efficiency, i'm not surprise by your gas mileage given that

 

The 2.5i is a fine car or wagon. I love mine! It handles like on rails. Its not a barn burner. When you drive a Turbo you feel that even V6's are slow, its just the nature of the Turbo in the way it brings the power. Everytime I drive my friend's Saab Turbo and then get back into the 2.5i I feel like something is missing. Solution: I've stopped driving his Turbo LOL:D

Yup, that's why whenever I drive my wife's 1.8T Golf, I realize what I'm missing lol. It's all good though. I'm only 26. Plenty of time left for faster cars.

I have always thought my subie had nice highway power, they definitely are nothing to talk about off the line. But when it comes to being on the highway, and even going thru the passes here in Idaho, I have always been happy.

With that said, I am going to pick up a '05 LGT tomorrow.

mm go test drive one and find out, i guess

if i was spending any more than 10k on a car i would make sure it's 100% the car i want, not something i settled for because circumstances weren't right.

because yea, it's cheaper, but if it doesnt stir your soul, don't buy it.

I don't know what the N/A ones get for mileage. Although many people think an LGT running on 87 octane will make the world blow up.....well, that's all I run in mine. I keep exact gallons and mileage numbers. My mileage to date (just hitting 3k miles) has varied from 27 to 30mpg for combined driving. I've had no long trips yet. I drive in I mode almost all the time.

Everyone note to not buy jack's LGT.

I gather you stay out of boost completely given your ridculously high mpg numbers. Why did you buy turbo car? You drive it actually so slow that NA would be more than enough.

One day with IC heatsoaked, you'll hit the gas, and little kaboom... hello ringland crack, lower compression, oil consumption and other problems.

Point is I don't get why someone buys a turbocharged car that is specced for high octane fuel and then uses 87 octane. To save money? If so you should have bought something else. If not, it's just retarded.

We just bought a new N/A Legacy 2.5i special edition. Its the first Subaru we've ever owned. Didn't want to spend the money for a GT.

From a performance perspective its not fast, but its not super slow either. Its respectable in terms of other 4 cylinder sedans around 3300lbs. You're not going to be doing any burnouts, etc in the N/A models but you can still slide around during the winter pretty easily. High speed passing power is average. Handling is pretty good though.

All in all it just matters on the price range/etc. We didn't want to spend more than 22k and we wanted a brand new car. We had a list of options/likes/etc but one of the most important features was good winter driveability, so wanted awd and for that price range the 2.5i Legacy or was pretty much the only good choice.

Out here the lowest I've seen the used GT's go for is ~20k. That was just the price on dealers websites, etc. So I dunno if that was the "final" price or a negotiating point.

^^3.5 miles is not enough for the CATS to warm up and the engine to reach peak efficiency, i'm not surprise by your gas mileage given that

 

The 2.5i is a fine car or wagon. I love mine! It handles like on rails. Its not a barn burner. When you drive a Turbo you feel that even V6's are slow, its just the nature of the Turbo in the way it brings the power. Everytime I drive my friend's Saab Turbo and then get back into the 2.5i I feel like something is missing. Solution: I've stopped driving his Turbo LOL:D

Saab Turbo's have very low RPM boost, so you will definitiely feel it; but they are not AWD and do not have the handling.

I have a 2.5i also and while it is certainly no racecar, it is not bad at all. The power is plenty for daily use. I have no problem with it's acceleration, but it really shines around the curves. If you were coming from a GT, you would be disappointed in the power. However, as I was coming from a 1994 Ford Taurus (and then a '05 Accord 4cyl after that) the 2.5i has plenty of power.

The only way to know if the 2.5i is good enough for your uses is to go test drive one. If it's a fit, then get it. If not, then look for a GT.

Does anybody know the 0-60 times for a NA Legacy?

I haven't driven one, but I've tried the GT and the 3.0R two days ago. I'm really close to buying an 08 GT, but I was curious to see how the 3.0 compared. I like the GT better.

 

Everyone note to not buy jack's LGT.

 

I gather you stay out of boost completely given your ridculously high mpg numbers. Why did you buy turbo car? You drive it actually so slow that NA would be more than enough.

 

One day with IC heatsoaked, you'll hit the gas, and little kaboom... hello ringland crack, lower compression, oil consumption and other problems.

 

Point is I don't get why someone buys a turbocharged car that is specced for high octane fuel and then uses 87 octane. To save money? If so you should have bought something else. If not, it's just retarded.

+1 Seriously... I thought I read that wrong for a second.... That's retarded..

It's only ~$5 more per tank for premium? It's not much more expensive as people play it out to be... Plus the problems down the road will outweigh paying extra for premium gas...

i think for 4EAT 2.5i Legacy is close to 10 seconds for 0-60

Not the sedan. 9 seconds and around 8 seconds for the 5MT.

I just bought an '08 2.5i limited as a daily driver and it's fine, especially in sport mode. My wife's getting around 24-25mpg with her '08 Outback and I'm at around 20-21 with only a few hundred miles on the car, a heckuva lot better than the 15+ I was getting with the SUV I traded. I bought mine because I think it won't be too long before gas is $6 a gallon. I also wanted AWD and regular gas. The Mercury Mariner hybrid, which would have been an alternative, was about $10K more but it's overall range wasn't much better than the Legacy because it has a smaller tank.

The limited isn't your car if you want to smoke pimply-faced high school kids at the stoplight. In regular drive mode, you do notice a drop in power around third gear. But it's a fair performer and handles pretty well for a car of this price. I could see the possibility of doing suspension mods or adding aftermarket wheels at some point.

My warm weather driver is a 2005 Boxster S, so I know something about acceleration and handling. The limited's no Porsche, but for a new car that can be bought in the low $20s, you do get leather and a bunch of other stuff that people would have to pay through the nose for on the Porsche. I think the Legacy N/A is a great value. I've also come to the conclusion that 0-60 isn't that important to me. There are too few places to use it. Here on crowded Long Island, I'm averaging 32 mph with the Porsche after 9,000 miles. To my mind, that's a waste of horsepower. Handling, however, is another matter and I think the already-decent handling on the Legacy can be enhanced with some relatively inexpensive mods, from what I've read on this board.

Do a test drive and see what you think. Good luck.

Well, I'm currently driving a Mustang GT (2nd one I've had) so I don't know if I could handle something with a lot less power, even though I am not the racing type.

I've just been on this forum for a while and everybody says the NA Legacy is really slow, but I've never seen the numbers.

I had to take my car in for service a couple of times and they gave me a Ford Focus and Escort as loaners. Those have what, 120 hp? While driving to work it was fine enough but as a regular driver I don't think I could handle it. We took my father-in-law's Scion xB to Las Vegas a couple of years ago and while it got terrific mileage, it had no power (I believe 103 hp). I found that annoying.

Aside from acceleration, fuel economy is somewhat important. I went to fueleconomy.org and used their calculator and the Legacy GT will actually be cheaper on gas even though it uses premium because it gets better mileage and that makes up for the difference in price. The cost of fuel was a concern for me because I assumed that the Legacy would cost me a lot more in gas, but that's not the case. If it was, I might consider a 2.5i Legacy. I do drive 18,000 miles per year and spend a lot of it in traffic. With the Mustang I get between 18-21 MPG. I did add up my gas receipts for the year and I am at about $3000/year for gas. It sucks, but I'm used to it and it isn't hurting me financially.

+1

It's only ~$5 more per tank for premium? It's not much more expensive as people play it out to be... Plus the problems down the road will outweigh paying extra for premium gas...

In a modern engine there is no difference between regular and premium fuel. At least not in general use from the point of wear and tear. All modern engines are equipped with knock sensors which will take care of any problems arising.

The real difference is when you need high power output, like when racing or towing. In these cases the engine is working closer to the knock limit and a higher octane will allow the engine to provide more power.

Using an octane number that's below the optimum for the engine can increase the consumption, but you wouldn't notice this during the low load that commuting to work normally is because most of the time the engine will have a relatively low load.

In a modern engine there is no difference between regular and premium fuel. At least not in general use from the point of wear and tear. All modern engines are equipped with knock sensors which will take care of any problems arising.

Bingo

I ran 86 in my 90 M3. For 2 tanks before track days, I'd switch to premium. The world didn't blow up back then either.

As to why did I buy the LGT? The rear LSD, and better power capabilities in a manual AWD car limited my choices. I'm seldom on boost. my commute is low speed limit side streets, stop and go and then highway on the cruise at 65.

jack

In a modern engine there is no difference between regular and premium fuel. At least not in general use from the point of wear and tear. All modern engines are equipped with knock sensors which will take care of any problems arising.

 

The real difference is when you need high power output, like when racing or towing. In these cases the engine is working closer to the knock limit and a higher octane will allow the engine to provide more power.

 

Using an octane number that's below the optimum for the engine can increase the consumption, but you wouldn't notice this during the low load that commuting to work normally is because most of the time the engine will have a relatively low load.

I'd argue that turbo cars are a different breed and really should have higher octane. The goal is to keep the car off of the knock sensor, not use it as a metering device. Any knock is bad knock, and if the engine has to adjust itself because of knock, that's not a good thing. I will say that my wife had an '03 Jetta 1.8T and while premium was recommended, the manual stated that 87 could be used. She always ran the mid-grade 89 in it with no problems at all. I'm sure it would have made more power with 93, but the car ran fine without it. But then again, she didn't press the car hard.

I think if you leave a car bone stock and drive mildly you could probably get away with the lower octanes, but when you modify a car where the timing and boost levels are raised, you're flirting with disaster. If you were to accidentally put 87 in a LGT, there's no need to panic and drain the tank, but I'd suggest driving tamely until you can get some more boost friendly gas in the tank.

Newer cars are surely more able to deal with it, but if I were to try to run 87 in my Buick, even at the stock 15'ish lb. boost level, I would think bad things could happen. Right now I'm running 24lb's of boost on 93 octane and alcohol injection with no knock at all, but if I were to try it on 93 alone, I'd be looking at new head gaskets at minimum

See my signature, we have 1 turbo, 1 NA Subie.

The NA is, as everybody says, not fast, but it is not slow either.

0-60 times are not a real-world measure of passenger car performance for many reasons. The 2.5NA engine is very flexible and torquey--max torque starts at 1700rpm and stays flat till the redline. This makes the car pleasantly driveable. Merging and accelerating into traffic is fine. You don't have to shift any more than you want to, hills are climbed effortlessly.

On Shell or Sunoco regular I get 27mpg (real, not off the optimistic computer), mixed mostly hwy.

Pure highway may see 30+ for a tankful.

Nice car, not a speedster, but pleasant to drive. I do sneak the WRX out for a blast now and then, but my life is fine without the turbo.

P.

08 2.5i SE MT, and the car only feels slow when taking off from a dead stop. The rest of the time the car is pleasantly powerful. Third feels especially strong...or is it just me? I test drove an 08 WRX before purchasing the 2.5i and both seemed a slow from a dead stop when driving as I would normally, until the the Turbo kicked in on the WRX. The feel of the turbo reminded me of feeling like you were slipping on the ice and falling backwards. It was like out of nowhere, the car was going fly out from under you and you better hang on.

I ended up deciding to get the 2.5i. First was the great deal I got on it. Secondly, everytime I've ever owned a fast car (relative...I know), I rarely used the power and it always seemed like waste. In the rural area I live, you can't go faster than that car in front of you. Third was my refusal to pay for premium. And finally, I love the looks of the legacy, and my NA has everything I want. Okay, one more, with the turbo, there's more parts to break and more potential repairs to make. And better insurance prices. And, no fear that the previous owner abused car, and I didn't want leather. There, I think thats it. Much love to turbo Legacies though.