Is it worth upgrading only the speakers?

I don't think I've been able to find any opinions on whether it's worth only upgrading the stock speakers in the Legacy/Outback to aftermarket speakers.

 

In particular, I am considering upgrading to Polk DB650 coaxials all around and dynamatting the doors, without adding an amp or upgrading the HU. Is this upgrade alone worth it? Will it improve the sound quality of the system over stock (or will it just sound "different" due to the HU's deficiencies, but not necessarily better)?

 

Anyone have any opinions about this?

I don't think I've been able to find any opinions on whether it's worth only upgrading the stock speakers in the Legacy/Outback to aftermarket speakers.

 

In particular, I am considering upgrading to Polk DB650 coaxials all around and dynamatting the doors, without adding an amp or upgrading the HU. Is this upgrade alone worth it? Will it improve the sound quality of the system over stock (or will it just sound "different" due to the HU's deficiencies, but not necessarily better)?

 

Anyone have any opinions about this?

 

Theres been plenty of threads on this, and the basic concensus is that because the stock stereo has a funky EQ matched to the funky stock speakers that changing the speakers may sound worse if anything.

If you have the speakers try it if you don't then try at your own risk. I personally think that it will sound better but not up to what the new speakers can do.

I think it will sound noticably more focused & detailed, the midbass response will increase (maybe overshadowing the sub?) and vocals will sound much more real. The highs will be much better, they're hardly there with the stock tweets. It will still sound like the "loudness" button has been pressed, but I do believe it will sound significantly better than stock. Probably wouldn't bother with the dynamat at this point.

Theres been plenty of threads on this, and the basic concensus is that because the stock stereo has a funky EQ matched to the funky stock speakers that changing the speakers may sound worse if anything.

 

 

I looked up an old favorite thread to refresh my memory on this as I too will be swapping speakers very soon, while not adding a LOC or amp and leaving the deck stock.

 

The is a strong argument that a good set of speakers will improve the sound in the car- even with the stock deck, and there is a strong argument that removing the stock tweeter in it's stock location and just going with a great set of coax speakers down in the doors will enhance imaging better than going with a set of separates and putting your new tweeter in the OEM tweeter location. I agree with this argument.

 

Putting a new tweeter in the stock location and coupling it with a new woofer down in the door will increase sound quality all around (of course) but the car will still have poor imaging due to the large distance between the woofer in the door and the tweeter up top.

 

I come from a background where we made kick pods whenever we could and if that wasn't in the budget, we used a deck that either had an auto-EQ function or a pro mode where you could enter in the speaker distances from the front passengers and the deck would calibrate the optimum sound levels for best imaging.

 

The best example I found back in the day was the Pioneer DEXP1, one of my favorite decks ever. The fact that I have to keep my car essentially stock this time around, I will go the upgraded coax route in the doors and see how they perform.

In the past when I've done this the results have been either negative or barely noticeable. It all really depends on how powerful our stock deck is. Stock speakers typically have a very high sensitivity allowing them to reach reasonably high volumes with minimal power. Once you install aftermarket speakers you may notice that you have to increase the volume to achieve the same output.

 

By running at an increased volume level you are susceptible to increased distortion and/or correction from the headunit. My guess would be that you'll see increased clarity up until you start pushing the headunit toward it's higher threshold, which you will need to do more often to achieve higher volumes due to to the decreased sensitivity.

 

Does that make sense? In summary, you won't really know until you try it. Most of the time it isn't worth it, but if you can get a speaker with high sensitivity and you don't play at the higher volume range then you may notice better sound quality. If you're like me and like to drive on the freeway with the windows open and the music louder than the wind noise then don't bother unless you can amplify the speakers.

As for imaging for the best sound you want the tweeter around dash level pref on the dash, and the midrange in the kick panel. This is sworn by audiophiles everywhere, so, using the components using the stock tweeter location (which is very good) would have the best quality and imaging. Especially over coaxials.

We'll starting another 10 page debate over what is ideal sound imaging.

We'll starting another 10 page debate over what is ideal sound imaging.

 

Yep....

 

As for imaging for the best sound you want the tweeter around dash level pref on the dash, and the midrange in the kick panel. This is sworn by audiophiles everywhere, so, using the components using the stock tweeter location (which is very good) would have the best quality and imaging. Especially over coaxials.

 

Debatable... There are so many factors in a car that work against the creation of an ideal stage and image. Everyone has different solutions, and everyone can debate till the sun burns out.

 

Personally, it takes a combination of techniques to create a great stage in a car. Kick panels, a pillar tweeters, time delays, multiple speakers, etc.

 

I use to compete in car audio competitions, don't anymore. It got to the point that to get 1 or 2 more points on the scoresheet, I either had to spend $1000 or more or get a different vehicle. That when I said, well it was fun, but I stop now. Now, I judge car audio competitions and have fun doing it. From my experience, tweeters in the A pillar is a good choice, it gives you a very good image height and stage width. But depending on the shape of the interior and placement of the mid/midbass driver, your stage maybe split. Like I said, the perfect listening enviroment is a room with a stool and the speaker placed in front of you at a distance. You can't do that in a car, it's a compact enviroment, which makes it extremely difficult to create an ideal audio enviroment. I have seen Expert class cars (People that work for car audio manufacturers) that have completely redesigned interiors in the search for the perfect image and stageing.

 

Just my 2 cents..

Exactly.

 

My plan this weekend is to get a great set of convertible fronts and wire them up and have a listen, along with my 2 installer buddies who are also ex-co-workers at my old audio wholesale company. I think the three of us will come to an honest consensus of what'll sound best in this particular car.

 

If they sound better with the new tweeter taped to the stock tweeter location over the tweeter mounted into the woofer down low, then I permantly mount them up high.

 

But, as of today, I think they will sound best mounted in the middle of the woofer down in the door where all the sound will be coming out of one source.

 

Unless the OE deck has some secret time delay function that I can get at...

upgrading the factory speakers to aftermarket ones will def not bring about more volume, infact, they may sound worse, because aftermarket speakers need a better signal and power to have them sounding great... also becarful what type of speakers you pick because the depth of the aftermarket speakers may not fit perfectly, causing them to slap against the door panels.. .. .. i would stick with ur stock speakers for now, until you decide to install an amplifier...

when I installed components up front (Quart 6.5's), I played with tweeter locations, specifically on top of the midbass (as coax), in stock tweeter locations & on dash. I played with numerous angles in each location and found that for my ears, the best spot was the factory tweet location but angled about 10 degrees forward past parallel with the door. This actually puts them maybe 35 degrees or so off-axis with the sotck tweeter door perforations. Obviously this toned down the response being so far off-axis, but the reflections created a cohesive soundstage that didn't sound isolated from the mids. I set the x-over levels at -3db.

 

I'm aware of the point-source arguments, but in the absence of dedicated kick panels, this simple outperformed the other locations, at least for my ears. For the record, I'm very much a SQ listener foremost.

Thanks for the great post.

 

I too will be fiddling around with the tweeter locations upon install and if they sound great mounted in the stock location, and not too out of sync with the door woofer, then we will mount them there...

 

I was at the local Future Shop just yesterday listening to their best Quarts vs. Infinitys.

Might be a tough call as both speakers sound dramatically different from each other. The highs in Infinity leap out of the speaker in such a way that I'm not surprised as to their #1 market share position in Canada... but the Quarts have their famous dry/pure sound that may be better to build on if I decide to massage a hi-end deck in the car ever (not likely though)

Either way, it'll be a fun install.

It was a fun intstall, tho it took a full 18 hrs not include building an amp rack & fiberglass sub box. I enjoyed the challenge.

 

I'm familiar with Infinity's sound, my impression with most of their stuff is that it has a "hot" sound, sounds great right off the bat but after some time tends to get tiresome. The Quarts have the opposite effect - sound conservative on the first song or so, but my ears really warm up to them after a few minutes. I'm most impressed with the Focals lately, if you get a chance they're worth a listen. Pricey tho.

Focal makes a potent set of speakers. The first time I heard a set on a sound board I asked the shop owner to turn off the subwoofer that I swore he was playing at the same time!

 

Turns out he was only putting deck power to the speakers! They were clean and crisp and very punchy.

 

 

The same dealer sells Audison as well, and pretty much every system they sell out the door is Audison/ Focal with custom-painted full fiberglass in the trunk. Nothing

less.

Great stuff.

I understand they're power-hungry tho. Don't want to change amps, thinking about running 1 amp on left, another on right, then powering the front speakers mixed mono, the rear as standard on each amp. I've no idea if it will work.

I love focal, that is what I ran in my competition car. I had a custom set of 3 ways Focal Xpert Class, 1 in inverted dome tweet, 4 in mid, 6 in mid bass. Mid and Tweet in kick and mid bass in door. That setup worked very well and had a desent stage and image. One 13" Focal Utopia sub in a seal box. Two Zapco competition amps and a DEQ30. That was in my 98 Impreza. I sure do miss that system.

I installed Boston Acoustic FX-6H coax's into the front and disconnected the stock tweeters. My conclusion has been that there was a very discernable improvement in sound quality. Better imaging, tighter mid-bass. The BA's are entry level speakers. My guess would be that investing in more expensive speaker systems may bring the law of diminishing return into play.

if i was going to redo my stereo...id try to figure out a way to bypass the stock amp somehow and use a aftermarket amp and some nice components up front and then whatever the rear speakers size is are id have the area enlarged so i could put a bigger 3 way speaker in there with bassblockers on them, and a jl10w7 in the spare tire well with a proper 1000watt monoblock, capped and with its own redtop battery to power it all...and dynamatt extreme kit....yea, that would be yummy sounding

if i was going to redo my stereo...id try to figure out a way to bypass the stock amp somehow and use a aftermarket amp and some nice components up front and then whatever the rear speakers size is are id have the area enlarged so i could put a bigger 3 way speaker in there with bassblockers on them, and a jl10w7 in the spare tire well with a proper 1000watt monoblock, capped and with its own redtop battery to power it all...and dynamatt extreme kit....yea, that would be yummy sounding

 

You're that guy I hear thumping down the road every nite, aren't you. mmm...Bassblockers...yummy...

I'm going to resurrect an "old" post here. gireland, where did you end up placing your tweeters? Did you go with Quart or Infinity?

I'm going to update my tweeter placement post from above. Initially placing the tweets in factory spot was bright until I angled them forward a bit. That helped take the edge off, made an interesting soundstage, but after a few days just didn't sound "right." Stuck with it for a few weeks until I couldn't take it anymore, redid all my listening tests and found surface mounting them on top of the midbass & angling them towards me produced the best sound. Finally sounds right - only took 6 weeks!

 

My guess is the time differential between the mid & tweet with all that real estate between the two in the stock location did the damage, plus they were totally in my face. So here it is - I'm formally telling Patagonian he was right, I was wrong about the point-source idea here. Think he heard that?