won't start......

So today I spent some time adjusting the lash on my car, and got everything to spec on the driver's side (cylinders 2 and 4). I did the passenger's side a little while ago, and finally got around to the driver's side. Buttoned it all up, good to go, and it won't start. It will crank, and it will try to catch, but then it will drop it and die. I'm so lost...I don't know where to start. It seems like it's electrical because it cranks fine, but when it goes to catch it sounds awful. I didn't disconnect anything electrical either besides the cylinder 2 spark plug.

 

I want to get this done tonight. I'm going out now to check it out again, but I really don't want to pull the valve cover because I've done that twice before to double check the lash (everything was fine). Anyone have any ideas? I'm exhausted with this car.

Checked fuel, checked spark, checked timing, triple-checked lash on valves...the only thing I can think of at this point is something happened while I was turning the cam sproket, and something broke internally. But I doubt it.

 

Words cannot describe how frustrated I am with this.

just a guess, double check the cam position sensor. maybe you bumped it?

 

double check the connectors on the rear of the engine passenger side, at the trans.

 

double check the maf sensor wire connector.

 

 

you get the idea.

I'm gonna start with electronics tomorrow. Cam position, MAF...what are the connectors on the rear of the engine passenger side?

 

I think I'll post a video of it tomorrow...at first I was worried that it jumped a tooth on timing, but it doesn't seem like it, and it cranks fine and everything. It's getting to a point where this engine might need to get the curtain. I was planning on yanking it over the summer to change out some seals...maybe moving that up a few months wouldn't hurt.

There are only a few sensors that will not allow your car to start. I know coolant temp sensor is one of them, I had similar starting issues about a month ago. My code reader, bluetooth obdii reader and torque app on my phone, gives live data. When I plugged it in with the car not running it said the operating temp was something crazy like 240 degrees.

 

A MAF sensor will still allow your car to start it just runs like shit. cam and crank positioning sensors may also not allow your car to start. Maybe someone can add more to this.

I'm pretty sure it's not the MAF. I will have to check the cam and crank position sensors though...how would I go about doing that?

 

And subikid, when your car didn't start with the coolant temp sensor, how did it sound?

the first thing to do id to make sure they are plugged in, cam and crank. you can measure the output when you crank it but i don't know exactly what it should be. and although i have a volt/ohm meter i have limited knowledge on it's use.

 

my guess is you unplugged something, or bumped something when working on the valve covers. i assume you had the plastic intake removed as well as the washer bottle.

 

maf sensor and vacuum hose are my first guess, they are both inter-connected with the plastic intake. there is a large vac hose on the under side of the plastic intake, if it is not connected the car will fire but stall out. with the maf disconnected it will throw an engine and a trans code (flashing AT TEMP light). and may not start.

 

do you have any trouble codes? do you have a code reader or can you borrow one.

no trouble codes show, but I was thinking of hooking up my reader and seeing if anything's amiss. I just double-checked the timing, and I was rotating the crank pulley, but when I switched to rotating the cam pulley on the passenger's side (just for testing), I heard an intermittent pop. Very seldom, but when the pulley would be hard to rotate, after overcoming the force I'd hear a pop. No belt slipping, and it didn't sound like pressure releasing from the combustion chamber.

 

I'm afraid to start it again if it is something internal that gave way. But for the record everything is plugged in, I just re-checked it. Maybe I could pick up a cam/crank position sensor and see if swapping it out would help anything?

Doing a compression test tonight, hopefully things go smoothly...

if you have spark and fuel then the crank and cam sensors are working.

 

remove the cam sprocket covers and check to see if the 4 cams line up correctly. the covers are 2 or 3 bolts each and i don't think you have to remove any thing else.

 

checking the cams is easier than pulling the plugs for a compression test.

 

compression test is a good idea if the cams check out.

i've got the sohc dude just a couple covers for me, and yeah they line up. Timing seems to be all set, and even if it was off by a tooth it wouldn't keep it from starting, right? It would just run like s**t or something...I think the next step is a compression test.

 

You're absolutely sure that with spark and fuel, the cam and crank sensors are working? I tried looking up how to test them today, but could hardly find any info on them. And the one piece of info that I did find had the test being run when the engine was on. Boo....

if you get spark and fuel they are working at least some. the crank sensor triggers the spark and the cam triggers the injectors.

 

but that doesn't mean everything is working perfectly.

 

please describe more fully, how it trys to start. does it fire at all or just turn over and do nothing?

 

does it fire and or sputter a few times and die?

 

the basics:

it takes spark, fuel, air and compression to run. eliminate as many as possible and then focus on what's left.

 

if you have spark on all four wires / plugs then look for fuel.

 

if you have fuel after the filter, pull the hose (with a rag wrapped around it and see if you have fuel pressure there. can you feel the injectors clicking? a mechanic's stethoscope would be great for this.

 

i doubt it is something internal to the engine, but who knows.

 

the 'pop' you heard concerns me. but to check the crank timing you have to remove the center timing cover and the crank pulley. that's a bit more work.

when my coolant sensor went my car would want to start but just couldnt get going. I let it sit overnight, it was near 0 degrees that night, then the next morning it started for 1 second then died. I agree completely with johnegg. Check for spark and fuel. If those 2 check out you have the computer and compression left. Do you have an FSM for your car? Since your motor is an ej22, I would use the FSM for the motor. If you know what motor the car came from then download the FSM for it, most ej22's are the same as far as sensors.

 

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru_manual_scans/

ok so, here's the progression of trying to start:

-starts to crank

-will go to try and catch

-doesn't catch, and sounds like it's backfiring

-after I let off the starter, sometimes it sounds like something still spins for a second

 

I'm going out again now to check spark on all four plugs with my dad just to be absolutely sure. then we'll do the compression test along with that too. I'll post up how it goes.

 

I do have the FSM for the car downloaded, so if anything happens and I need something for a reference, I'll check it as needed. And it doesn't sound like it's anything with the coolant temp sensor by the way.

with computer controlled engines, back firing is usually a timing issue.

 

the compression test may indicate low numbers on one side or the other.

spark and fuel are good. going to compression test soon once we get a hold of the pressure tester.

 

so if the numbers are low on one side and not the other, it's most likely a timing issue? but if we're down on just one cylinder, or if they're on opposite sides, it'll probably end up being a more complex issue...?

could be rings, valves or valve seats. when was the last time the car was run?

yesterday morning...I'm going to look up the timing procedure tonight and have at it tomorrow and see what's up by fully disassembling the front end to get at the belt and all the goodies. If the timing's off, then la-de-da, i'll fix the timing. If it's not...there's a bigger story behind this then.

 

Everything checked out though...I was reading 110 for cylinders 1 and 3 and 140-150 for cylinders 2 and 4. Is that a good range, or is something wrong?

Something is wrong that's a HUGE difference. Was this warm or cold I am assuming cold since the engine wont start.

 

2-4 seem fine. 1-3 don't. I had 90 COmpression on Cyl 3 but yesterday I drove the car around warmed it up good and now all cylinders are 155 compression across so I am pretty happy.

 

Make sure the tool went in properly.

compression should be with in 10% for all cylinders. 110 for 1&3 indicates that the timing is off on the passenger side. maybe both, 140 - 150 could be ok for a cold engine i don't know. but 110 id not good, and 1& 3 are both passenger side. the cam must have slipped on the belt. or maybe the crank.

 

pull the covers and re-time it. if you have not done it before ask about the timing marks. do not assume you can get it right by just looking at the cams and crank. lots of folks have done it wrong.

 

use the alignment marks, never the arrows.

 

what year is your ej22 engine.?

 

oh, what the heck .......

 

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/johnceggleston/timingbeltdiagram.gif

hey, text 18602124645 if you need help because im local. Ive done LOTS of timing belt jobs, and lots of troubleshooting. I get out of work around 2 tomorrow, but free all weekend.

timing was off, the cam sprockets were lined up with the marks at 12 o'clock but the crankshaft sprocket was back by 45 degrees. Retimed it...but worried about the internals because it's an interference engine.

 

Now i've got another problem, I think the tensioner is bad. Does anyone have any tests for the tensioner to make sure it's ok? When I push down on the belt, the pulley goes up on the tensioner and the piston compresses a little bit. I'm afraid this is what caused the teeth to slip...but I don't want to go and drop $150 so readily.

which tensioner do you have?

 

is it like the one in the diagram above or different.? that's the old style. they can be interchanged, but they each have their own base bracket. unless you look closely the bracket looks like part of the block.

 

they aren't cheap. i'd look on ebay. see if ''theimportexperts'' have one for sale.(search subaru timing kit) they have good prices on kits and i've been pleased with the quality of the pulleys, belt and water pump. i don't use their seals.

if you have bent valves the damage is done. running it with the correct timing will not hurt it any more. i'd hang the belt and start it up. put on the crank pulley and bolt, but leave off the covers so you can see everything. you might want to mark the crank pulley 12 oclock timing positing before you bolt it on. that way you can see if it slips during the testing.

 

see how it runs but take it easy. warm it up and if you have any doubts at all, check the compression. if the compression is good then get another tensioner. if the compression is not good, bent valves, then decide if you are spending more money on this engine or another one.

 

i'll bet you have the new style tensioner, they stink, in my opinion. and they should be changed at every belt interval. the old style would last the life of the car as long as it wasn't leaking oil, you just had to replace the idler pulley.

the tensioner turned out alright, I tested it and it seems ok. everything is buttoned up, and viola!! it runs. BUT, there's a catch:

 

under heavy throttle, it sounds like shit. rough running, and it sounds like something in the valvetrain. but, that's only under heavy throttle. when it's light, it runs and sounds like a champ. could this be indicating bent valves? everything is to spec. I'm going to quadruple check everything tomorrow to see if anything's loose, but it sounds bad under heavy throttle.