USDM vs JDM Legacy GT - impressions

First, I must give a big thank you to Rennick Subaru in Stanton, LA for letting me test drive a manual transmission GT sedan without even blinking an eye. They've got a great salesman in the performance parts sales division, and they also give a lot of support to the aftermarket needs of Subaru owners - from what I have seen in here, a relatively rare occurance. My initial impression was that somebody had put the drivers seat on the wrong side, it is surprising how used to driving a RHD vehicle you can get. Yet I quickly got into the swing of using my right hand to row the gears again as I checked it out on the local roads. Power supply is different. Getting off the line *is* easier in the 2.5-liter GT vs. the JDM 2.0-liter. That extra 500cc of displacement makes life much easier in traffic and works with the drive by wire system better. It was very comforting to feel the boxer beat as well due to the 2.5 retaining the unequal length headers. An exhaust system that you can hear is going to be positively sexy on the 2.5. Overall power delivery is more linear. A bit flat, actually, in comparison to the JDM. The JDM car gets a big serving of torque once you swing past 2000rpm, while the USDM just continues up in a relatively flat line. I would have to say that the JDM has the edge in horsepower, but the USDM has the edge in torque. I'd rather build up a 2.5 for power than the 2.0, there's just more of an envelope to explore. Handling is a mixed bag. It was not as bad as everybody makes it out to be, or it may be that the handling of the JDM model has reached mythical status for most people because they have not experienced it yet. Rubber is the main weakness of the USDM model. It is a poor grade of rubber that lacks the grip necessary with a 250hp vehicle. But that rubber is predictable and did not have any really bad characteristics. While it is inadequete, it communicates its failings clearly. If you actually get caught out by the rubber, it is simply because you are overdriving it. And on city streets within reasonable distance of the speed limits, you should not be overdriving it much. Roll resistance was quite a bit lower than the JDM though that did not affect overall grip much. Confidence levels would certainly be lower, but as long as you keep a steady foot on the gas in the corners, it would go where you are pointing it. That fact may actually catch out some people new to AWD, for if you are used to the bit of oversteer in RWD you may be countersteering when you shouldn't be. Dive and squat under braking and acceleration were nearly as well controlled as the JDM vehicle. And the suspension system may be tuned for a bit more softness and understeer than the JDM yet it was also very well suited to the crap quality of the roads in California. After several days of driving on those roads, I have to say I'd be of two minds towards modifying the suspension too much - a degree of softness goes a long ways in terms of liveability. Maybe my training and experience in getting the most out of AWD systems, in particular Subaru's, is coloring my view here but I think some simple modifications of driving style will save some people some money. Braking a bit earlier and easing into the gas through turns will return much faster corner exit speeds than you would believe, even with the softer suspension. Due to the relative softness of the suspension, especially in the rear, I can see where abrupt throttle lift mid-corner would have the rear end stepping out. I'd just try and avoid that situation no matter what car I'm in, though. Overall, I would take the JDM model over the USDM model. But in no way would I be crying if I had to take the USDM model, especially given that the modifications to make it acceptable to my driving needs would be relatively cheap - some different dampers and springs, stabilizer bars and endlinks, simple exhaust and intake changes - and it would be quite friendly and fun to go. Given that I'm doing exactly the same changes to my Japanese model, I don't see there being a big difference at all. In the end, they may be exactly the same. Oh, btw - you guys get a tighter, shorter shift than we do. That surprised me a bit. They must have figured that Americans have longer arms and more strength than the Japanese on average. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[quote name='apexjapan']And the suspension system may be tuned for a bit more softness and understeer than the JDM yet it was also very well suited to the crap quality of the roads in California. After several days of driving on those roads, I have to say I'd be of two minds towards modifying the suspension too much - a degree of softness goes a long ways in terms of liveability. ... Oh, btw - you guys get a tighter, shorter shift than we do. That surprised me a bit. They must have figured that Americans have longer arms and more strength than the Japanese on average. [/QUOTE] You think california roads are crap? *whoa* The roads around here makes california roads look F1 worthy. Did you drive the short shifter? Cars with wings commonly have a STS installed as a package. Thanks!

[quote name='Deer Killer']Did you drive the short shifter? Cars with wings commonly have a STS installed as a package.[/QUOTE] That may indeed have been the case, though the salespeep didn't think it had one in. Definitely tighter overall, and shorter (in height) than the JDM shifter. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[quote name='apexjapan']First, I must give a big thank you to Rennick Subaru in Stanton, LA for letting me test drive a manual transmission GT sedan without even blinking an eye. They've got a great salesman in the performance parts sales division, and they also give a lot of support to the aftermarket needs of Subaru owners - from what I have seen in here, a relatively rare occurance. My initial impression was that somebody had put the drivers seat on the wrong side, it is surprising how used to driving a RHD vehicle you can get. Yet I quickly got into the swing of using my right hand to row the gears again as I checked it out on the local roads. Power supply is different. Getting off the line *is* easier in the 2.5-liter GT vs. the JDM 2.0-liter. That extra 500cc of displacement makes life much easier in traffic and works with the drive by wire system better. It was very comforting to feel the boxer beat as well due to the 2.5 retaining the unequal length headers. An exhaust system that you can hear is going to be positively sexy on the 2.5. Overall power delivery is more linear. A bit flat, actually, in comparison to the JDM. The JDM car gets a big serving of torque once you swing past 2000rpm, while the USDM just continues up in a relatively flat line. I would have to say that the JDM has the edge in horsepower, but the USDM has the edge in torque. I'd rather build up a 2.5 for power than the 2.0, there's just more of an envelope to explore. Handling is a mixed bag. It was not as bad as everybody makes it out to be, or it may be that the handling of the JDM model has reached mythical status for most people because they have not experienced it yet. Rubber is the main weakness of the USDM model. It is a poor grade of rubber that lacks the grip necessary with a 250hp vehicle. But that rubber is predictable and did not have any really bad characteristics. While it is inadequete, it communicates its failings clearly. If you actually get caught out by the rubber, it is simply because you are overdriving it. And on city streets within reasonable distance of the speed limits, you should not be overdriving it much. Roll resistance was quite a bit lower than the JDM though that did not affect overall grip much. Confidence levels would certainly be lower, but as long as you keep a steady foot on the gas in the corners, it would go where you are pointing it. That fact may actually catch out some people new to AWD, for if you are used to the bit of oversteer in RWD you may be countersteering when you shouldn't be. Dive and squat under braking and acceleration were nearly as well controlled as the JDM vehicle. And the suspension system may be tuned for a bit more softness and understeer than the JDM yet it was also very well suited to the crap quality of the roads in California. After several days of driving on those roads, I have to say I'd be of two minds towards modifying the suspension too much - a degree of softness goes a long ways in terms of liveability. Maybe my training and experience in getting the most out of AWD systems, in particular Subaru's, is coloring my view here but I think some simple modifications of driving style will save some people some money. Braking a bit earlier and easing into the gas through turns will return much faster corner exit speeds than you would believe, even with the softer suspension. Due to the relative softness of the suspension, especially in the rear, I can see where abrupt throttle lift mid-corner would have the rear end stepping out. I'd just try and avoid that situation no matter what car I'm in, though. Overall, I would take the JDM model over the USDM model. But in no way would I be crying if I had to take the USDM model, especially given that the modifications to make it acceptable to my driving needs would be relatively cheap - some different dampers and springs, stabilizer bars and endlinks, simple exhaust and intake changes - and it would be quite friendly and fun to go. Given that I'm doing exactly the same changes to my Japanese model, I don't see there being a big difference at all. In the end, they may be exactly the same. Oh, btw - you guys get a tighter, shorter shift than we do. That surprised me a bit. They must have figured that Americans have longer arms and more strength than the Japanese on average. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] i was waiting for someone who had experience with both types of the legacy, and i thank you for delivering an educated review. do you think the USDM's nav system will be similiar to what is offered in the JDM model, or do you think that we'll get jacked with a piece of crap like we always are?

I honestly don't know, it will likely be in SOA's hands, not SOJ. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Navi option for the JDM Legacies, the aftermarket had better units for cheaper IMHO. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Dear Paul, So basically, with a few (readily becoming available) mods this car should be quite the ticket...;) Sincerely, Teh DM

[size=2]Thanks Paul -[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Very informative. [/size][size=2]It confirms that a change to a moderately higher rate spring (STi springs on order) should be all that I will need to do to improve roll resistance and improve reflexes. I don't necessarily want to go any faster (if you are going as fast on the street as the Legacy is currently capable of you are likely a danger to others) but I prefer a car that is more responsive to inputs and is generally more controlled.[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2]Tom[/size]

Thanks for the comparison, Paul. You're one of the few lucky ones that are able to compare the JDM and USDM Legacy. How did the overall fit and finish compare up the JDM? Any differences in the interior? Ken

[quote name='Ken S']How did the overall fit and finish compare up the JDM? Any differences in the interior?[/QUOTE] Ken, None that I noticed. Everything felt as same as they could when I was driving in the passenger seat. :D The seating position was changed, due to the change in the seat itself. It was not quite as snug as the JDM seat. The JDM may be more snug but it is not hugely supportive either, so I didn't feel uncomfortably different sitting in it. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Yes Paul... thanks for taking the time out to post up the impressions. And I echo the rest that Tom said...

[quote name='apexjapan']The seating position was changed, due to the change in the seat itself. It was not quite as snug as the JDM seat. The JDM may be more snug but it is not hugely supportive either, so I didn't feel uncomfortably different sitting in it.[/QUOTE] Blame the fat Americans. :p

I thought we were supposed to Blame Canada? :D Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Blame us Americans for the cupholders. Ken

Great review Paul.. Did you happen to look at the OEM equipment such as the sways..and did u feel a diffrence in stearing feel w/o the JDM aluminum control arms? Personly I would still recomend upgradeing the suspension for anyone that has "performance driveing" in mind.. I am glad I can adjust my coilovers for softness, because the roads here are as you say "crap". B4

[quote name='B4_Maniac']Great review Paul.. Did you happen to look at the OEM equipment such as the sways..and did u feel a diffrence in stearing feel w/o the JDM aluminum control arms? Personly I would still recomend upgradeing the suspension for anyone that has "performance driveing" in mind.. I am glad I can adjust my coilovers for softness, because the roads here are as you say "crap". B4[/QUOTE] Dude....you drove a Rx-8....don't tell me your softening anything up....liar :lol:

HAHAHAA! Yeah, my RX8's suspension is great on the twisties but horrible on dates! I usualy like to save the head bobbing till after the car has stopped! :)

[quote name='B4_Maniac']HAHAHAA! Yeah, my RX8's suspension is great on the twisties but horrible on dates! I usualy like to save the head bobbing till after the car has stopped! :)[/QUOTE] LMAO...just give her a helmet. :D

Also Paul..what did you think of the brakes?? B4

Very nice write-up Paul! "Power supply is different. Getting off the line *is* easier in the 2.5-liter GT vs. the JDM 2.0-liter. That extra 500cc of displacement makes life much easier in traffic and works with the drive by wire system better." "I'd rather build up a 2.5 for power than the 2.0, there's just more of an envelope to explore." PRECISELY the reasons I initially had any declared interest in the LGT. The extra low end torque added to the drivability enough to entice me from my 03' WRX. It so happens that the LGT came with many additional ammenities such as the bigger brakes, heftier tranny, much improved interior, road suppression, and my beloved moon-roof back! & now we have the comfort of a great daily driver with the angst to compete with rex's and the potential to taunt STi's. :D -JGR

[quote name='B4_Maniac']Also Paul..what did you think of the brakes?? B4[/QUOTE] Crap pads, crap tires. The pads were designed for long life, lower brake dust and no noise. You know my opinion of the tires. Otherwise it is the exact same setup as the JDM, so if you put in some decent pads and decent rubber, you would have more braking than you would know what to do with. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[quote name='apexjapan']Crap pads, crap tires. The pads were designed for long life, lower brake dust and no noise. You know my opinion of the tires. Otherwise it is the exact same setup as the JDM, so if you put in some decent pads and decent rubber, you would have more braking than you would know what to do with. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Any suggestion for pads then??? Project Mu maybe?

About to run out from here soon, so can't go indepth. Looking around at sources right now - Project Mu Titan Kai's were always nice, but we are talking about a 7,000-9,000 mile life span here, at least when you drive them like I do. And I am being optimistic. :D Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Also..does Endless have anything "CIVIL" for the Leggy?

What is the 'DM' mean in JDM or USDM, please? is that design / manufacture?

[quote name='Aerodox']What is the 'DM' mean in JDM or USDM, please? is that design / manufacture?[/QUOTE] no. DM = Drift Monkey. :D