Turbo noise? help me diagnose

Got a P0011 the other day, drove normally but still limped it home about 2 miles and parked it. Checked the OCV everything looks good, checked timing (it's spot on), finally thought to check the dip stick: bone dry. Filled it up with about 4qts of oil before it reached max. Reset the code and took it out for a drive, seemed fine in and out of boost until suddenly I heard this noise.

 

First video is right after letting off the throttle (in boost)

 

Second video is while in boost

 

Didn't want to push it too much but I tested it and could only replicate the sounds a handful of times. Car kind stops accelerating and stutters during the noise...

 

Is this a boost leak or did I manage to kill my turbo?

Got a P0011 the other day, drove normally but still limped it home about 2 miles and parked it. Checked the OCV everything looks good, checked timing (it's spot on), finally thought to check the dip stick: bone dry. Filled it up with about 4qts of oil before it reached max. Reset the code and took it out for a drive, seemed fine in and out of boost until suddenly I heard this noise.

 

First video is right after letting off the throttle (in boost)

 

Second video is while in boost

 

Didn't want to push it too much but I tested it and could only replicate the sounds a handful of times. Car kind stops accelerating and stutters during the noise...

 

Is this a boost leak or did I manage to kill my turbo?

I'm not experienced enough to say but with that little oil in the car and the noise I'm going to guess blown turbo. Don't dry the car ANYMORE. If it's the turbo that failed and you don't drive the car anymore there's a chance the engine won't need to be replaced too.

 

I'll let someone else more experienced chime in though.

I'm not experienced enough to say but with that little oil in the car and the noise I'm going to guess blown turbo. Don't dry the car ANYMORE. If it's the turbo that failed and you don't drive the car anymore there's a chance the engine won't need to be replaced too.

 

I'll let someone else more experienced chime in though.

Very strange noise..

 

Although I admittedly have limited knowledge on Subaru's, in my experience a failing turbo (or engine for that matter) would sound a lot more harsh/nasty than that almost sweet spacey noise I heard.

 

I don't know what to make of it but hopefully someone here can diagnose it!

Very strange noise..

 

Although I admittedly have limited knowledge on Subaru's, in my experience a failing turbo (or engine for that matter) would sound a lot more harsh/nasty than that almost sweet spacey noise I heard.

 

I don't know what to make of it but hopefully someone here can diagnose it!

Sounds like the turbo is on its way out. Starving the car off oil caused the turbo to be starved. Something is not spinning as smoothly as it should. I had a noise happen like this but it was over due for an oil change and had the same camshaft code flashing. I changed the oil. Let the car idle for a few minutes. Since that moment I have driven 20K miles without turbo issues.

Sounds like the turbo is on its way out. Starving the car off oil caused the turbo to be starved. Something is not spinning as smoothly as it should. I had a noise happen like this but it was over due for an oil change and had the same camshaft code flashing. I changed the oil. Let the car idle for a few minutes. Since that moment I have driven 20K miles without turbo issues.

checked the dip stick today after the drive yesterday... only about 30 miles and the oil is already pitch black and seemingly (?) sludgy.... could this be a symptom of something?

That's definitely a symptom of something. Not okay at all. I don't know what it's a symptom of though lol.

 

Edit: Maybe that's all the burned sludge/oil from running almost no oil mixing with the new clean oil. Not enough oil would mean running hot and it makes sense that there could be some black sludge burned onto the inside of the engine.

Tore into it today; plan was to check any shaft play but couldn't manage to wiggle the downpipe out of the way (it was hung up on one of the studs) but managed to spot this... could this be the cause of the noise?

 

Check that you completely unbolted the downpipe. There is a bracket that supports the downpipe on the side. The downpipe hooks onto this bracket (see pictures). Once the turbo flange is disconnected, and this bracket is unhooked, you should be able to swing the downpipe out of the way enough to inspect the turbo.

 

That loose component in your picture could definitely cause a boost leak. There is a rubber ring that sits in a groove on that connection. Make sure it is seating correctly before you tighten that connection. I like to put a little coating of silicone grease on sealing rings such as that to hold them in place temporarily and to condition the rubber seal.

An update:

 

I took off the dp and checked the turbo for play, it has some side to side and some in and out movement but it's minimal so I'm assuming its ok. I wish I took a picture of it but there was a black film in the turbo that I can only assume to be burnt oil? After bolting everything up I took it for a drive; the good news is that the noise is gone but the bad news is that I had the P0011 come back along with a P0021...

 

It drives fine otherwise but until I figure this out I wont be driving it anymore. My first thought is maybe the oil pump is on its way out? The AVCS banjo bolts already have the filters taken out so that narrows it down a bit.

 

Any ideas?

How much is some shaft play?

If you are positive your valve timing is correct, and the OCVs are clean and working as they should, it would make sense to check for low oil pressure next. If you had to add 4 quarts of oil, your oil supply was almost empty. This could have caused internal engine damage, sorry to say (the low oil pressure light on these cars is notorious for not coming on until it's too late).

 

You noted dirty oil 30 miles after a oil change. That's probably the residue of the oil retained by the engine mixing with the fresh oil. What's your usual oil change interval on the car? How long did it take to get 4 quarts low?

 

Sludge comes about usually from not changing the oil frequently enough. Driving lots of short trips tends to encourage it. It's unlikely you would see it on the dipstick, it is like a gel that accumulates on the internal parts of the engine. It can cause long-term problems by clogging up oil passages, among other things.

How much is some shaft play?

 

 

If you are positive your valve timing is correct, and the OCVs are clean and working as they should, it would make sense to check for low oil pressure next.

 

I'm not sure of anything anymore but yes everything is seemingly in perfect working condition.

 

I had a "rebuild" about 4,000km ago where an exhaust valve cracked and it was replaced along with the rings in cylinder 4 and the cylinder was honed. Since then I haven't changed the oil (which might be my first mistake?) but I was planning on a 5,000km OCI.

 

I guess my next plan is to check all oil lines for any blockage of some sort and go from there...

 

Thanks for your help, Miles

Well, glad you got the noise taken care of, at least.

 

I think 6,000 km OCI is what Subaru calls for these days, though it might have been good to change it earlier since you had that engine work done. One of the most important things you can do for these cars is check the oil level frequently, like every other fill-up or even every fill-up. It helps to get a feel for how much oil consumption is normal. Some cars use more than others.

 

It's possible you are losing oil through a turbo seal, but then again, it's hard to be sure. It's fairly easy to pull off the intercooler and see if you have oil in there. If you can find out what kind of oil pressure you have for the AVCS, that may help you figure out next steps.

I'm no expert on shaft play (ha) but I recently lost my VF52 due to the compressor blades just starting to contact the housing. I coasted to a nearby parking lot under minimal load within a mile or so after hearing the faint metallic whine under light load, shut it down and had it flatbedded to a tuner/shop I've done business with several times in the past. It idled smoothly for the few seconds I let it run after I pulled into the parking lot, there was no hesitation, no codes thrown, but the faint high pitched metallic whine was unmistakeable.

 

After replacing the turbo and associated due diligence, I took the old VF52 out of the box the shop left it in. There is almost literally -no- shaft play whatsoever at the turbine side, easily less than 1/4 what the above video shows. On the compressor side, I can make the compressor blades contact the housing by applying relatively slight sideways force. I would have not suspected impending turbo problems if I had pulled the DP and checked from there. I would def recommend not driving the car until you get some more diagnosis done.

I can't view the video here at work, but IMO if you can feel shaft play, its too much.

 

When you have the turbo off and rebuilt or replaced make sure you install a new oil return hose from the bottom of it.

 

I bolt the turbo to the up pipe, I find it much easier to line up the inlet hose (which is very easy to cut) oil return hose and up pipe at the same time.

 

When I installed the VF52 the first time It cut the inlet hose before I knew what happened.

 

I have posted pictures or you can see the bolts on the turbo to up pipe in my click here link below.

 

Those bolts came from the dealership, they are the same bolts that bolt the up pipe support bracket to the block. Use the double nut method to remove the old studs from the up pipe.

 

I assume you have a catless up pipe, being from Canada ?

 

Use anti-seize compound on all threads, even the lug nut threads.

I'm no expert on shaft play but that looks like a lot. I would expect tolerances to be much tighter than that.

It's possible you are losing oil through a turbo seal, but then again, it's hard to be sure.

 

When I had the intercooler off I noticed a bit more oil than usual but it didn't seem excessive, the only thing that stuck out for me was the weird black film on the inside of the turbo (which wasn't there about a month ago). Also how would I go about checking the AVCS oil pressure?

 

I assume you have a catless up pipe, being from Canada ?

 

Yup, catless up-pipe and everything stock... Guess I'll be looking for a new turbo now lol. I was half way though digging in to get to that banjo bolt by the turbo but then I read (I think) one of your comments saying it was moved to under the intake manifold for 2008+?

 

I like to pretend I know a lot about these cars but there's definitely tons more to learn for a kid like me

I'm no expert on shaft play but that looks like a lot. I would expect tolerances to be much tighter than that.

 

I watched the video and, that looks like way more shaft play then normal. Time to start turbo shopping.

...how would I go about checking the AVCS oil pressure?...

One way is to rent or buy an oil pressure test kit. I'm not sure about Canada, here you can go to Autozone and rent or buy one. This is a mechanical gauge with a length of rubber hose and several adapters to connect to the engine. The easiest thing is to temporarily remove the oil pressure sending unit, and connect the gauge there. There are some other places on the engine block you could attach the gauge, too.

 

Now, when you start the car, just watch the gauge and write down what you see. Pressure will usually be high at startup (~40+ psi @idle) since the oil is cold, then it will come down as the engine warms up. When warm, pressure will be lower at idle (~20+ psi) and increase with RPM (~70+ psi @3500 RPM). You would like to see a steady needle at constant RPM.

 

What if your oil pressure is lower than that? Could be several things. Your oil pickup could be blocked with a blob of RTV (it happens). Your oil pickup could be cracked (known issue on some of these motors). Your oil pump could have a pressure relief valve that is not working right. Or, it could be really bad. If your bearings are worn so there are excessive clearances, the engine will not hold pressure as it should. This is because the oil pump outputs a fixed volume of oil, depending on RPM. The oil pressure develops as that oil flow is restricted. If you don't have much restriction due to excessive bearing clearance, you don't develop much oil pressure.

Oh yea that turbo is shot. Yes the 07 + the banjos filters are moved up by the TGV's.

 

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

Also check out the sticky...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-oem-parts-catalog-online-exploded-views-opposed-forces-130411.html

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4783.jpg

Quick update:

 

I probably won't be able to get into this until after exams but I had a few questions first. Regardless, I'll be replacing the turbo but that still doesn't solve my P0011/21 codes... I'm waiting on my BTSSM but with that I'll be able to check the intake cam angles, I'll be checking the banjo bolts (but I doubt that's the problem if I got both codes?), I'll be checking oil lines, I plan on dropping the pan to clean any glitter (not sure I have any) and check the pick-up, I want to take a look at the oil pump (not sure how likely it is it failed), and if everything still seems fine after all that then I guess I'll have to split the block...

 

Is there anything you guys can think of that I forgot and that I should check?

 

And also, if I do find the problem, what's the likelihood the bearings are toast anyways? I've gone maybe about 5-10kms (~3-6miles) since the P0011 first popped up. Car seemed and still seems fine but I've read who knows how many posts saying that it's already too late...

 

Thanks!!