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tuning question


05 Scooby roo

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I know this is def a noob question but I can't get a straight answer from anyone I talk to. I just bought a 2005 Legacy GT LTD 5MT and it had an aftermarket uncatted uppipe (no name brand supposidly). I want to put a down pipe and a GFB hybrid 50/50 bpv. Do I need to re-tune the car after I do that or can it run normal on the stock mapping? Also if I have to tune it, does anyone know where the closest dyno tuner is to Middletown, NY and do I have to buy an ap to have the car tuned?
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It is a good thing that you have a catless uppipe. These have been known to come apart and take out the turbo and the engine as well.

 

You should not really do too many mods to this car (besides cat back exhaust) without getting a tune. A tune is required after a downpipe to prevent overboosting and running lean in higher boost which will destroy your engine.

 

Since you have an 05 you can easily go with either open source tuning or an AP.

If you already have a laptop and don't mind driving around with it to log the car, you have to options. First is the Vag Com cable you pick up off ebay for around $20 delivered. There are a bunch of posts here (and RomRaider.com, Nasioc.com, etc.) about it. Some users have found the Vag Com cable a little quirky to set up and use, so your other alternative is the Tactrix cable. It's more expensive at about $170 but you could also pick up a used one or an older model. It is less finicky than the Vag Com cable, but most folks figure for around $15 the Vag Com is worth a shot.

 

The AP is nice because you don't need to always have your laptop to log and you can both flash and have real time maps that you can switch without having to reflash. It is a lot more costly though at $595 new. With it you get Stage 1 and Stage 2 maps free from Cobb.

 

Depending on which way you decide to go will have bearing on who tunes the car. A lot of ProTuners only work with the AP, and ProTunes probably average $400-$500. You can get an open source etune for about $150, which for your mods would probably work out well. You could go with http://www.infamousperformance.net (open source or AP; though he seems to be backed up right now), Tuning Alliance (AP only I believe), or any other number of respected tuners.

 

Just do more researching before you do anything, because there's a ton of information here and you can avoid the mistakes made by others with a little bit of work.

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Thank you LT for answering some questions I had. I guess I invested in a car that needs more investing...blahhhh. I guess I will start looking for things on here and ebay and get in contact with I think his name is Shamar from infamous. I don't mind waiting cause its going to take me some time to get that cash up. 2 kids and a full time student... this should be fun. Thanks again.
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EFI Logistics might also be a good place for you to look into. Very good feedback. They're in CT but I don't think they're all that far from you.

 

Take your time and plan out what you want. Most people are happy w/ stage 2. Always budget for less than you want to spend, cause its always more money by the time you're done. Two kids, a wife, and school are more important than dicking around with your car and turning it into a money pit. Depending on your mileage you may want to swap into something like a VF52 turbo for a little more power and to replace your old turbo before it craps out. BNR offers some turbos as well....but there have been some failures with them too.

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car does have 86k on it. I have looked into EFI and they are a little expensive and they want you to have an ap which I don't have. Is it true that a dyno tune is really that much better than a street tume with one of those cables and a laptop? All I want to do is a dp and a 50/50 hybrid bpv. Over time I might look to do a fmic but its not that important to me. I am currently running 11 psi boost and I might see if I can go to 15 with a stage 2 tune. The prev owner took the silencer off the intake which I am a little upset about. Thats a cheap way to do it. I have done too many things the cheap way and regretted it and it ended up costing me more in the long run. I think I am going to go Invidia or CNT dp but would you do catless or hi-flow cat?
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Taking off the intake silencer is absolutely the best way to get a little noise without screwing up the car. Stock intake is very efficient and based on your needs you really shouldn't have to do anything with it. Most recommend against even putting in a panel filter w/out a tune, and whatever you do don't get the SPT Intake.

 

The 50/50 bpv is actually frowned upon as your taking metered air out of the system and causing a rich condition, but that's a debate I don't want to get involved in as there are too many threads and posts on it already.

 

Really don't need an fmic with your aspirations either. Just get a turbo blanket (after you replace that turbo) and wrap the downpipe. Do some research on Nasioc.com. Catless is too noisy and stinky for me for maybe 5hp. People spend a ton of money ripping off their entire stock exhaust system only to end up finding the drone or (either from the exhaust or wife) is too much on a daily basis.

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Yea I have heard bad things about the spt intake. I was looking at the k&n typhoon with the air box but I did hear that you need a tune if you change that. I wasn't so keen on the fmic cause I really don't plan on racing it and running it at that much of a lower temp. Do you think I should replace the turbo now or wait for it to go bad and upgrade it then? If you don't like the 50/50, what would you recommend to get a little bit of noise out of the bov?
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It's a crap shoot as to when the turbo can go bad. I sold my turbo w/ low thirty thousand miles on it to a guy who's turbo blew at 85k:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/possible-blown-turbo-131354.html?t=131354&highlight=rlineberg

 

Some people get quite a bit more:

 

member Max Capacity - "142,000+ miles and still running the oem turbo, stage 2 at 19psi"

 

Depends on Checking and Changing Oil Religiously and luck. A lot of people take out the banjo filters as well. But when the turbo goes, good chance it will take out the motor.

 

When you get a tune you can also get a panel filter or intake and be tuned for it to get a little more noise. If you got your heart set on it you can always buy a used 50/50 bov, try it for a while, and resell it like a lot of people do. ;)

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The 50/50 BOV will cause your motor to run rich when you lift off of the throttle (shifting, for example) but there's nothing that a tuner can do to fix that. It's just a limitation of the stock ECU, since it uses the MAF sensor to decide how much fuel to inject, and when the BOV is venting the MAF sensor is basically just lying to the ECU.

 

Fixing that problem requires an ECU that doesn't use a MAF sensor - for example, there are some standalone units that base their fueling on manifold pressure, air temperature, and RPM.

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LT, maybe at 100k I will look to sell and upgrade the turbo but until then, its balls out. I know this is going to be another noob question but when you say check the oil, you do mean engine oil right? Or is there a spot to check oil in a turbo?

 

NSFW, will running rich do damage to your turbo or engine? If so, why do so many people put them in if its going to destroy things. All I want out of it is to make a little bit of noise. do they make 100% recircs that make any noise? Not that I need it to, but I always found it to be cool.

 

I also have a chance to pick up a cobb access port v1 for around $200. Do either of you think its worth it? Is it easier to tune it using one of them or an open source?

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I don't really know for sure. But, if you have a cat, then there's probably some risk of damaging the cat since you'll have some fuel burning in the exhaust system. If you're catless, I don't know of any real risks. You'll just get pops and crackles, and sometimes the extra fuel will make it sputter. I experimented with a 100% VTA BOV for a couple days, but I didn't like the way it made my engine run. 50/50 might not be so bad, but I can't speak from experience.

 

An aftermarket intake, like AEM or KSTech, will make the stock BPV much more audible. Not as loud as a BOV, but much louder than stock.

 

That's a big discount on an APv1 but if you want to do your own tuning you'll be better off with a Tactrix OpenPort or one of the cheap VAG-COM clones. Cobb used to charge an arm and a leg for tuning software for the v1. The v2 tuning software is free now but I don't think that's true for the v1. I'm not real familiar with Cobb though, someone else should really answer this. :)

 

If you want to pay for tuning, talk to your tuner about what tools they prefer.

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LT, maybe at 100k I will look to sell and upgrade the turbo but until then, its balls out. I know this is going to be another noob question but when you say check the oil, you do mean engine oil right? Or is there a spot to check oil in a turbo?

 

Check the oil level at the dipstick frequently. These cars are known to use a lot of oil, especially when a problem develops. The oil light doesn't come on until there is only 2psi of pressure. At this point your engine is already toast, so you may as well think of it as a Replace Engine Light.

 

Replace the oil often, like every 3,000 to help keep the banjo bolt filter clean. It can get clogged and ruin the turbo due to oil starvation. Due a search for banjo bolt and there is a thread on how to remove it.

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My advice is to leave your car as is for now. Having 2 kids and being a full time student, this doesn't sound like the time to be messing with your car. If money was no issue then that would be a different story, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Halfway through my stage 2 tuning my clutch went, so that was $1000+ that needed to be spent right away to keep it running. Your intercooler could blow apart and you would need to be able to replace that.

 

These cars are fun, but can require a bit of money when you start messing with them. I am not trying to talk you out of modding the car since stage 2 is still what most consider to be on the conservative side, but you just need to be aware of the potential hidden costs and be able to cover them on the spot, or have a car that is not driveable for while.

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NSFW, thanks for the info.

 

LT, I do check my oil every week. I used to have a 97 civic with an oil leak that now has a broken connecting rod and no compression in cyl 4. It is now a lawn ornament until find someone to buy the shell. I dumped too much money into that car to put more into it. I will have to look up banjo filters. Is it a good idea to remove it? I do run synthetic being I drive 100-150 miles a day when school starts again so I am not changing oil every month.

 

LT Dan, love the name! Not really a tight budget but just not into spending rediculous money on mods. I don't race, I just want it to look and sound like a nice boxer.

 

Rock, I do ha e 2 kids and a full time student but I am also a full time worker and I do know the costs of fixing certain cars. It helps when you have a brother who is a mechanic and a ton of friends that work on cars. I don't want to go cheap on mods cause I have had problems in the past so I do want to spend a decent dollar but I can't see spending like $900 on a cbe that I like but I really don't need. I just wanted to do some cheaper mods that might give the car some noise. I don't want obnoxious, I have been through that stage. I want a nice sound and a little bov noise and thats it. If I am going to do a bov it needs to be tuned so I might as well go catless dp cause people say that will give it a little more of a boxer sound. up/dp/bov is all I want. then its stage 2 tune time and DONE! until something is needed.

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Thats cool, i didn't notice any increase in sound with the dp, it was catted, I have no experience with the catless. I took the mufflers I had from my previous car, Acura Cl, and had them modded a bit by an exhaust shop to bolt up to the LGT, sounded perfect, great low rumble. I am not a fan of the bov, but to each their own...I did notice an increase in turbo and bypass noise with the avo panel filter.
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