I think I'd get the manual gearbox

For any potential GT shoppers out there, I think I would get the manual tranny if in doubt. We bought the auto box, and my gripes are that torque is weak off the line and the engine is quite suited to the direct connection of a manual gearbox. The auto does a nice job and is a blast when you are on the gas, but for driving sedately and having the GO power on the ready, a manual would be better. Again auto good manual better. Bob.

That's seems like my biggest gripe too. You really have to ease onto the gas to get it to go off the line and while moving, if you slam the gas you have to wait a couple of seconds before the car takes off. Other than that though, everything about the car is awesome. Don't get me wrong though, After driving manuals in heavy Houston traffic for the past 10 years, my clutch leg is thanking me for the needed break.

My experience in the auto reflected this as well, but I haven't tried a manual yet. I would purchase the manual. That is disappointing, because I *Really* liked the idea and implementation of the sportshift, except for the lag to get POWER. -Allen

A drawback of a MT that most agree on is the hassle of working the clutch in stop-and-go traffic. I've never driven a turbocharged car, but it seems like the turbo would add to the frustration since you'll constantly be dealing with turbo lag and being off boost in general. Am I wrong in assuming that a manual turbo is about the worst thing to be driving in stop-and-go traffic?

I would say that's a pretty good assumption. It's probably not worse than an 18 wheeler though. :)

Off boost the GT is the same as the 2.5 NA. If you think driving a manual 2.5 NA in traffic is bad, then the GT will be bad "off boost". It isn't true "turbo lag", turbo lag is when you are at an rpm where high boost is possible, you push down the accelerator, and it takes a few seconds for the boost to rise. Very few modern turbo engines have this. What most people call lag these days is the time when the engine is simply NA, under the actual high boost phase of the engine's rpm range. The turbo lag, or amount of time necessary for a turbo spool up, is low, there is just a realm under 2500-3000 rpms where the turbo is not engaged at peak boost. Again, it will be exactly like the not turbo-ed legacy in traffic. A "turbo laggy" car (like the old bi-turbo S4) is hard because you push the gas at speed and it takes a little before the boost kicks in, so you are apt to use too much gas before you realize what you are doing.... I will research a true technical definition of turbo lag, but the basic reasoning is above and should answer the question about a manual in traffic. Hope this helps... Ted

[quote name='gurpman']A drawback of a MT that most agree on is the hassle of working the clutch in stop-and-go traffic. I've never driven a turbocharged car, but it seems like the turbo would add to the frustration since you'll constantly be dealing with turbo lag and being off boost in general. Am I wrong in assuming that a manual turbo is about the worst thing to be driving in stop-and-go traffic?[/quote] Why would you want to be accelerating hard in stop-and-go traffic? I can't stand those people that get into a traffic jam and stab the gas, then stab the brakes, repeatedly. My question is, does the GT manual have enough torque to idle along in first or second gear? That's how I deal with stop-and-go traffic in my RS. I can even just ease out the clutch in first at idle and putt along. sqrl b8

See above answer, your RS is a 2.5 engine (I think), ant the new one is supposedly even better, so it will be the same or better. Ted

i drive a manual wrx in traffic every morning. no biggie. if the traffic is bad, the revs never get high enough for boost to be an issue. you just feather the clutch and move ahead when the occasion arises.

I agree with JK... driving in traffic is harder on the leg, than having to deal with boost and high rpms. With the legacy GT, I noticed that it's easier to get the car going, from 0-10 mph than the WRX is to do the same. Of course, I didn't have a chance to drive the GT too long, but from what I did notice, it's fairly similar to the WRX, and blipping the throttle a little from a dead stop always helps. As for the manual versus auto debate, I dunno, I am just partial to manuals, as it seems much easier to drive (once an individual is used to it). Having to deal with an automatic, in which I personally feel there is no 'fun' factor, might be different in the Legacy, but I have not tested it, as it wouldn't even interest me in buying the car with it. Later, i.

[quote name='praedet']See above answer, your RS is a 2.5 engine (I think), ant the new one is supposedly even better, so it will be the same or better. Ted[/quote] Indeed, but the 2.5 Turbo has much lower compression than the NA. So off-boost power should be diminished. sqrl b8

[quote name='squirrel-bait'] My question is, does the GT manual have enough torque to idle along in first or second gear? That's how I deal with stop-and-go traffic in my RS. I can even just ease out the clutch in first at idle and putt along. sqrl b8[/quote] Yes, it does creep along quite easily in 1st and 2nd. That's one thing I noticed right away, like when turning a corner in 2nd gear.

[quote name='praedet']Off boost the GT is the same as the 2.5 NA. If you think driving a manual 2.5 NA in traffic is bad, then the GT will be bad "off boost". Ted[/quote] Nope, the GT uses lower compression so it generates less power when off-boost than the NA version. How much lower? Someone has to dyno it, preferably from 800 RPM or so.

Sorry, I real quickly forgot about the compression difference between GT and 2.5, it will be a little different down low. That being said, here is a link as promised.... (I know the first one is from a place called Turbo minivan, but it was the best, and most accurate, definition I could find.) [url]http://www.turbominivan.com/tech/turbo101.htm[/url] [quote][b]What is turbo lag (and how do I avoid it)? [/b] The majority of turbochargers feature a wastegate--a valve which allows some of the exhaust gas to be directed around the turbine. This allows the turbo's shaft to spin at a reduced speed, promoting increased turbo life (among other things). Think of it as a 'stand by' mode. Since the turbo isn't needed during relaxed driving anyway, this effect is harmless... ...until you suddenly want to accelerate. Let's say that you are loafing along, engine spinning 1500 rpm or so. You instantly floor the throttle. The exhaust gas flows through the turbo and cause it to spool (spin up to speed and create boost). However, at this engine speed there isn't very much exhaust gas coming out. Worse still, the turbo needs to really get spinning to create a lot of boost. (Some turbos will spin at 150,000 rpm and beyond!) So you, the driver, need to wait for engine revs to raise and create enough exhaust gas flow to spool the turbo. This wait time--the period between hitting the throttle at low engine speed and the creation of appreciable boost--is properly called boost response. Many people incorrectly call it lag, which is really something different. Lag actually refers to how long it takes to spool the turbo when you're already at a sufficent engine speed to create boost. For example, let's say your engine can make 12 psi at 4000 RPM. You're cruising along at a steady road speed, engine spinning 4000 RPM, and now you floor it. How long it takes to achieve your usual 12 psi is your turbo's lag time. Between the two, slow boost response usually causes the most complaints.[/quote] Notice that what most call "turbo lag", is actually "boost response", also called "boost threshold". This mistake is common, as shown by Edmunds [url]http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43841/article.html[/url] [quote]Since the amount of boost created by a turbo depends on exhaust flow, turbocharged engines make considerably less boost at low RPMs than they do at higher RPMs. This lack of low-end boost in turbocharged engines is often referred to as "turbo lag" because it takes time for the turbo to build boost and create horsepower. [/quote] And one more try at further explanation. From a stop. If I push my foot to the floor, the engine is not going to produce enough exhaust gas to spin the turbo above static pressure until the "boost threshold". (2500-3000 in the Legacy according to most) The GT will have some HP (not the 2.5 NA HP as established but shouldn't be much lower) before the threshold, but, after the threshold it will have more. What makes "turbo lag" bad, is this. Say you are on the interstate at 70 mph and 3500 rpm and you suddenly see a truck about to rear-end you. You can't change lanes but there is space in front of you. You press the accelerator to speed up. In a car with a lot of "turbo lag", the car would start to accelerate with the NA portion of the engine, and then a few seconds later the turbo will spool up to kick in more hp. This time lapse is dangerous in this situation, but more so if the acceleration is in a curve, because most people will add gas till they get a response. With the lag, that response could be a lot more than necessary, causing a loss of control. Most who understand these terms say that there is little or no "turbo lag" on the GT and that the "boost threshold" is around 2500-3000 rpm. I would tend to agree. Back to the original question, manual GTs should be fine in traffic. No "turbo lag", just use a little clutch feathering and you should be good. Sorry, too wordy... Ted

The biggest reason for my 5sp choice is that I want to rev it up and dump it when I really "need" to get off the line. Additionally and obviously, I have the choice of when I want the car to shift. I was really impressed, though, with the shift points in the auto I test drove and an almost intuitive sense the car had. Here in the mountains, however, autos can really suck. Any of you guys live in a place high enough to see how the auto performs when the car is under heavy load? Is there much gear hunting? Does it hold on when you need the power. My wife's old car, Envoy XL had V6 and 276HP, but the four speed jumped like a toad on hot asphalt any time we'd take in on a mountain getaway in Colorado. Her 5sp FXT at 210HP, on the other hand, is a dream and never stops pulling. -Todd

Get the manual if you can. I've driven the auto, stick, short throw and reg throw(prefer short throw). To me it seems like 2 different cars(manual vs auto). The stick seems much more responsive, no low speed lag or waiting with acceleration from a stop. Very fun to drive(last test drive was 30 minutes alone through the hills), 50 shifts later I had a huge grin on by face. Any stick requires SKILL to master, but also adds a new dimension to driving. I have driven all the other brands but have decided on the Legacy GT Manual. If you are looking to impress your friends with gadgets and brand name, then get a TL or G35. If you looking for a car that is very EASY and FUN to drive, then get the Legacy GT.

I am very happy I got the manual, after test driving both. The GT is the first manual car I've driven regularly. I keep improving, and I love it more and more. :D The auto was pretty good, but I'm still glad I got the manual.

Hello Legacy_Fan - read your review of the shifter and that you prefer the short throw 5-spd manual. Question: Was this a factory option, or an "Aftermarket" Subaru accessory that requires dealer installation? I have the 2005 Legacy brochure and the short throw shifter is listed in the accessory section. If available, I'd much prefer to have the SIA folks in W. Lafayette, IN do the installation prior to delivery, rather than the dealership. I'm actually quite surprised any dealer had a short throw version available for a test drive. Thanks for the review! Ski Cincinnati

I drove an auto GT sedan followed by manual GT wagon, and the difference was like night and day. The Sportshift was the best I've ever driven of that type, but going to the manual completely changed the personality of the car. COMPLETELY.

It is just awesome. Short-throw 5MT kicks major butt! The ratios are pretty darn good. Now I think I'm pulling the same revs at about 80 as I was at about 72 or so it feels that way. It's pretty well setup and FAST. Even on break-in.

I wonder if it came from the factory or if you or the dealer installed it after delivery? Also, the shifter should not affect ratios at all, therefore your RPM at any given speed assuming all other conditions (grade, temp, humidity, road surface, elevation, tire pressure etc.) are equal, should be identical to the standard manual shifter. Thanks.

[quote name='SUBE555']It is just awesome. Short-throw 5MT kicks major butt! The ratios are pretty darn good. Now I think I'm pulling the same revs at about 80 as I was at about 72 or so it feels that way. It's pretty well setup and FAST. Even on break-in.[/quote] The short throw shifter is just the shifter itself, it has nothing to do with internal gear ratios. What exactly are you referring to?

Manual Edition still not landed here in Oz but will be by the end of this year.

^^^ -- Thats what your'e hoping Adam :D I reckon the auto is an absolute cracker. I'm having a ball with the push button gear changes on the steering wheel. At the end of the day, it up to the individual though. Cheers, Matt

Yes I am, waiting waiting but have driven the XboX as I like to call it only a few times. Great to hear that you have mastered the buttons on the wheel, im sure it could be a lot of fun. I asked the dealer if it would also be possible to move around the gearshift in sports mode so it worked in similar fashion to the WRC car. Pull back to go down and push forward to go up gears. Yes it can be done but SoAU wont do if for U. Apparently its as easy as switching around a few wires.