Things to look out for...

Okay, so I've been a lurker for a while now... Being that my boss has a WRX, and my best friend does too, I suppose the next car will be a subaru. I want some knowledge first (and yes, I tried searching, but couldn't exactly find what I was looking for, I even googled).

First things first, I am a long time, hardcore DSM fan (Save your transfer case jokes, yes I had one break). So I'm used to the idea of a car that can handle an appreciable amount of power (300-325whp/wtq) without too many reliability issues. This said, the eclipse (1993, 1g for those that wonder) that I had, was completely Evo 9 swapped, 6 bolt main, built block, big turbo, 40 psi of boost, plus way more mods than that, equalled around 790whp. Give or take. Now I AM NOT looking for that much power. Realistically, I'm looking for the first power figure (300-325), and I want that RELIABLY. By the way, I do feel a little blasphemous for choosing to go the subaru route, as the heritage i come from states subarus are evil things, lol.

I am looking for a Spec B. Specifically 2007 and up. I want the 6 speed, I know the 5 speed has its weaknesses. Now, as far as ringland failure on the EJ255, what power figure do you seriously start to run that risk, and how would I avoid it beforehand? The other alternative (and I'm eyeing one here on the forums, he's even local ) is one with a rebuilt or slightly built motor. I know forged pistons are a necessity, for lack of a better term, for these motors. I have experience with turbo cars, so I know they use oil, I know not to go WOT under 2 or 3k rpm, gas mileage won't be the best, but that aside, are there any other things that I should know about these cars before I drop 15,000 on one?

Oh, and be nice, no trolling please. These are honest questions, even if they are a bit rhetorical.

Thanks,

Mike

The stock block should be good to 300 no problem and will probably be okay to about 350 or a bit higher depending on how good the tune is and what dyno you're reading on. 400 can be done, but it won't last like that. Here, check out this what turbo wiki. It will give you some idea of what is required at a given power level: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

The 2005-2006s had some problems with stock turbo reliability in the VF40, though many of those problems can be traced back to a catted uppipe or a clogged banjo on the oil feed line. The 2007+ cars improved the situation by removing catted up and going with the inherently more reliable VF46.

Note that stage 2 power is reliable all day long for the life of the car. Downpipe and a tune goes a really long way on these cars and the 4th gen LGT really hits a nice sweet spot on performance vs. reliability at stage 2. However, that said, that's gonna be below your stated hp goal at around 250-275 awhp (again depending on tune, dyno, and any extras you go with too (intercooler, bpv, EBCS, etc)). Once you start swapping turbos, the reliability starts going down. Now that said, you can probably get a nice VF52 with some supporting mods and still be really close to your numbers and that's still gonna be nice and solid for a good long time. You are unlikely to really stress the motor past its breaking point on a VF52. Where you start getting into trouble is with 20gs and bigger. A tuned VF52 will be pushing boost in the low 20s psi range, I believe.

Yes, the EJ255/7s do burn oil. Just a fact of life. Monitor it. Top it off between oil changes. Make boost. Go fast. Be happy.

All that said, there is some argument about whether forged is really the way to go on these motors. Obviously if you want a 450/500awhp monster, you're gonna need forged components. But forged pistons are absolutely going to experience piston slap until the aluminum comes up to temp and expands to fit the sleeve a little more closely. This is hard on all kinds of stuff inside the sleeve. If it were just a stage 2 daily driver for 100,000 miles, you would probably actually not want forged components and should just stick with the oem cast stuff. Of course, again, you are somewhere in between those two cases and so it would require a little more analysis and determination of personal preference to really decide how forged and how built and how blueprinted you want to go.

Fyi ... it's not that the 5 speed is terrible, though it does have it's weak points. Yes, the 6-speed is stronger and in most cases better, but there are some scenarios where the 5-speed is actually better. But those usually have to do with taking better advantage of the gearing in stuff like drag racing and autocrossing. For a daily driven street car that is pushing it's power envelope on stock components and looking for as much reliability as possible, the 6 speed is definitely better.

By the way, the 2007+ spec.Bs are truly great examples of the truly great 4th gen Legacy GT. Assuming you can find a clean one with reasonable miles, you are gonna be blown away at how awesome it is. GLWPurchase! Welcome to LGT.com. Have fun!

Okay, so I've been a lurker for a while now... Being that my boss has a WRX, and my best friend does too, I suppose the next car will be a subaru. I want some knowledge first (and yes, I tried searching, but couldn't exactly find what I was looking for, I even googled).

 

First things first, I am a long time, hardcore DSM fan (Save your transfer case jokes, yes I had one break). So I'm used to the idea of a car that can handle an appreciable amount of power (300-325whp/wtq) without too many reliability issues. This said, the eclipse (1993, 1g for those that wonder) that I had, was completely Evo 9 swapped, 6 bolt main, built block, big turbo, 40 psi of boost, plus way more mods than that, equalled around 790whp. Give or take. Now I AM NOT looking for that much power. Realistically, I'm looking for the first power figure (300-325), and I want that RELIABLY. By the way, I do feel a little blasphemous for choosing to go the subaru route, as the heritage i come from states subarus are evil things, lol.

 

I am looking for a Spec B. Specifically 2007 and up. I want the 6 speed, I know the 5 speed has its weaknesses. Now, as far as ringland failure on the EJ255, what power figure do you seriously start to run that risk, and how would I avoid it beforehand? The other alternative (and I'm eyeing one here on the forums, he's even local ) is one with a rebuilt or slightly built motor. I know forged pistons are a necessity, for lack of a better term, for these motors. I have experience with turbo cars, so I know they use oil, I know not to go WOT under 2 or 3k rpm, gas mileage won't be the best, but that aside, are there any other things that I should know about these cars before I drop 15,000 on one?

 

Oh, and be nice, no trolling please. These are honest questions, even if they are a bit rhetorical.

 

Thanks,

Mike

Forged pistons are actually not a necessity on these cars. Members are pushing close to 400 whp with the stock ones. That being said , these motors have a tendency to go over 120k miles. If you're looking at the 15k range that means it'll be a lower mileage one. Still it'll be a big plus if its already been rebuilt ( depending on the reason) . Also look out for turbo replacements. Some owners have replaced their turbos because they blew it. If you blow the turbo, sometimes metal goes into the block. Other then that , surf the forums , especially the build threads and turbo platform area to see where people are having trouble. These cars are very temperamental.

400 wheel is safe for these? What mods are necessary for that? Oil supply would definitely be needed, I would think. An AOS or catch can?

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And dujo, thanks for the info, if the spec b is anywhere near my buddy's wrx (2011 Hawkeyes 5 door, roughly 275-300whp by my guess)then I'll have a good time. Just a dsm has always sort of struck me as better (not bashing subaru at all, I LOVE the look of the 4th Gen LGTs. What would be a reasonable price for say, 100,000 miles or so?

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Depends on your area. There are a lot of websites that can give you the true market value, since it depends on supply and demand.

I would look for the normal replacement items like the timing belt. For an 05/06, look for replaced turbo (preferably not the VF-40) and up pipe. Upgraded turbo will need an upgraded oil supply line.

400 wheel is safe for these? What mods are necessary for that? Oil supply would definitely be needed, I would think. An AOS or catch can?

I'm saying people out there have it on the stock block. I'm not saying it's safe or recommended.

400awhp? A big ass turbo. And if you want to support it properly, I'd say full headerback, so headers, uppipe, turbo, downpipe, catback as well as on the cold side: intercooler (front-mount preferred at this power level), bpv, ebcs, cai, fuel pump, larger injectors (1000cc or maybe even bigger) and a great tune. That should get you there. And if you're smart (and reasonably wealthy ... or dumb enough to waste all your discretionary income), I'd say some nice forged internals, a nitrided crank, etc. If you really do it right, you can even turn the dial up to 11 and go for 500 or more. Hell, there's a guy on here with an 800 hp Legacy that keeps breaking axles, though I think some folks got together and solved that with some wicked (expensive) axles. Don't forget to back all that up with brakes and suspension. And wheels. And tires. And a clutch. And maybe a 6 speed swap. So really, bare minimum of 10 grand not including the price of the car.

And you will find that there is a whole lot in common with that WRX. The turbo Legacies really are just a more grown up, classier version of the WRX. They have a ton of design in common and even a great deal of shared parts. Which means that aftermarket WRX and STI stuff often fits the LGT too. 100,000 mile 4th gens are in the $5000-$10,000 range depending on condition and maybe even a little more including the wagons and the spec.Bs which are a bit more rare and fairly desirable.

Good questions all, and it sounds that you are competent and know what you are looking for. There is a wealth of information on here about various things that can and do occasionally go wrong but if you are diligent in your maintenance and don't hold it above redline for hours at a time, generally, they are pretty solid.

The key to Subarus is the not the car itself, it's the owner. If the owner is prudent and proactive and diligent and consistent, there is no reason that these cars won't run 200K on the stock power, turbo included. I've seen many with more miles that that and still on the original or only 2nd turbo (they CAN wear out just like any other part) and the original block and heads running fine.

When modifications are made, unless they are well thought out and considered carefully and then installed correctly including a solid tune, that's where the issues come to the forefront.

You have done big WHP build, and now want reliability instead. You'll be fine with whatever you buy because you already know the foibles that are involved with turbo cars and as you already know, maintenance is the key. Ask questions about tune, about oil and filters to use, about mods, and think them through before putting on that CAI because it "sounds cool". Many of the mods are simply for looks or sound, but in reality are not worth the money or time it takes to install them.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Good questions all, and it sounds that you are competent and know what you are looking for. There is a wealth of information on here about various things that can and do occasionally go wrong but if you are diligent in your maintenance and don't hold it above redline for hours at a time, generally, they are pretty solid.

 

The key to Subarus is the not the car itself, it's the owner. If the owner is prudent and proactive and diligent and consistent, there is no reason that these cars won't run 200K on the stock power, turbo included. I've seen many with more miles that that and still on the original or only 2nd turbo (they CAN wear out just like any other part) and the original block and heads running fine.

 

When modifications are made, unless they are well thought out and considered carefully and then installed correctly including a solid tune, that's where the issues come to the forefront.

 

You have done big WHP build, and now want reliability instead. You'll be fine with whatever you buy because you already know the foibles that are involved with turbo cars and as you already know, maintenance is the key. Ask questions about tune, about oil and filters to use, about mods, and think them through before putting on that CAI because it "sounds cool". Many of the mods are simply for looks or sound, but in reality are not worth the money or time it takes to install them.

 

Good luck and keep us informed.

Well I know straight away that a tune (if I don't buy one here on the forums) is an absolute necessity. If not for higher power levels, for peace of mind, because I know most subarus run lean as hell from factory. I know the eclipse had afr's in the 10s and 11s at redline. And this thing's "redline" was somewhere in the 9200-9700rpm range. Max power was way up high at 9150rpm (thank you mivec). My boss's wrx is in the 12s at idle, but at redline, gets into the 14s, which to me is scary. I know knock kills these (and any for that fact) motors. I talked to a guy a couple weeks back about making sure I had an aftermarket oil pickup line, and an AOS system. Are these mandatory? Or do they just serve the purpose of helping? I'm thinking just doing cai, tbe, intercooler, and tune, really. Unless it's already modified. I would really love to see around 300whp, but I'm realistically not looking for higher than 350-375. I do want to retain some level of gas mileage.

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