Swift springs and new Cobb Sways

I've ordered both the Swift springs and the F/R hollow Cobb sways for my 2005 LGT wagon 5MT, but the Cobbs haven't shipped yet. I'm having 2nd thoughts about this combination. The Swifts will significantly reduce body roll by themselves, I imagine, and I'm afraid the Cobbs may be too stiff for the springs. Swift's swaybars are only 20% and 17% stiffer than the front and rear stock sways, respectively. Cobb says their new hollow sways are 50% and 95-115% (adjustable) stiffer than the stock front and rear bars, respectively. Will the Cobb bars and Swift springs, along with the stock struts, give me unpredictable handling at the limit? Snap oversteer? It's a daily driver and autocross car with plans for 3-4 track days per year. Should I cancel the Cobbs and get the Swift bars (assuming the springs and bars were designed as a package)? I like the adjustable feature of the rear Cobb but is it the devil's bargain?

 

Xenonk, help! Must make decision by C.O.B. 5/19/06.

Help! Advice please!

cancel the Swift springs and buy the set I'm selling cheap

Oh, go save for a Mini. Sorry, Swifts should be here tomorrow. Too late! Now go bother your new wife.

If you're worried about snap oversteer, you need to work on your driving. I used to be intimidated by it, but through autox you get to use it to your advantage, and also learn how to keep snap oversteer from happening. Cobb's sway bars aren't that much stiffer, and they'll make an improvement. I'd just stick with doing sways and springs combined. You'll be happy with the less roll If it does seem to be a problem, run a higher tire pressure in the front.. our cars have a tendency to push anyway, but a lower pressure in the rear will make the loss of grip more progressive.

That's simplistic and I disagree. Snap oversteer is inherently unpredictable; that's why it's called "snap." But I do want the car to rotate for autocrossing, and that's why I went for a set of stiff sways.

 

My worry is for road use and emergency manuvers. It's a family hauler and I don't want the back end coming around when I have to swerve to avoid something. I might save it or might not, but my wife is less likely to save it. Not good for a street car.

I associate snap oversteer to be caused when you're on the throttle and then let off the throttle quickly causing the back end to swing around very quickly. Before I set out with cold tires, I usually do some quick swerve maneuvers on my street (it's empty most of the time), and the car has never oversteered on me. I run the rear tires 4 PSI lower than the front, and it helps.

 

I'm the only person who drives my car, but if your wife might not be able to control it, then it is a concern. Sway bars increase the limits of grip of the car, so as long as you don't go way past the speed limits on the street, I wouldn't worry about snap oversteer. Also, you're doing both front and rear sway bars together. If it was just a rear sway bar alone, I would be more concerned.

I don't associate snap oversteer only with lift throttle oversteer. I've raced karts for years and believe me, the rear end of those things can go quickly on or off the throttle, especially if your setup sucks. "I'm off to the haybales, honey! See ya!"

 

By snap oversteer I mean the car gets to its traction limit in a sudden transition manuver, gives no warning of the limit, and when you exceed it, the rear is gone in an instant. That is different from a gradual oversteer that you control using the throttle. As I define it, snap oversteer isn't useful for anything other than entertaining spectators.

 

I suspect I'm worrying over nothing and that this setup still isn't stiff enough to change the basic balance that drastically. I guess I'll see soon!

lol I should have paid more attention to your user name. d'oh. Yeah if you have raced karts a lot, the short wheel base on those can really cause the rear end to snap on ya. The Legacy GT's wheel base is so long, it's not as big of a problem. Give the set up a try and see how you like it at autocross. Push the limits and see if snap oversteer is a problem for you. Sway bars are easy to install or remove, at least.

You will love the COBB bars and have absolutely no regrets.

Xenonk was kind and said to me in a PM the same thing. What I think he meant was "stop whining and let your car rotate, boy! Be a man!" Actually, he said street tires let go so gradually that you don't get snap oversteer in a road car.

 

Once I get all of my new parts on the car, I'll let you know how it all works!

you will be fine... Cobbs bars are not stiff enough for something like that anyways.. it would take a way bar much bigger than even Perrin's 22 (the biggest/stiffest available for the LGT) to cause oversteer.

 

Don't worry, slap it on, enjoy.

 

Oh.. and I drove BOXRPWRs car when he had Perrin bars and the swifts... it was a nice combo.

The thing with the Swift Sway percentages is that they are compared to the JDM rear bar, not our USDM rear bar. The rear Swift sway is 17% stiffer than the 20mm JDM bar, which itself is a bunch stiffer than the 16mm USDM bar. That's still not going to make the Swift combo as stiff as the Cobb's, but it's not skewed as much as you might be thinking. I believe that both the Swift and Cobb sways offer a relatively 'balanced' upgrade from the USDM front + JDM rear combination, with Cobb being the stiffer option. Hope that helps.

Thanks, yes it does. Must be buyer's remorse syndrome. My wife reported the affliction a year into our marriage but we survived. Hope my LGT will, too!

The thing with the Swift Sway percentages is that they are compared to the JDM rear bar, not our USDM rear bar. The rear Swift sway is 17% stiffer than the 20mm JDM bar, which itself is a bunch stiffer than the 16mm USDM bar. That's still not going to make the Swift combo as stiff as the Cobb's, but it's not skewed as much as you might be thinking. I believe that both the Swift and Cobb sways offer a relatively 'balanced' upgrade from the USDM front + JDM rear combination, with Cobb being the stiffer option. Hope that helps.

 

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

I have the COBB bars on order also, and I am certain it will be a very balanced set-up.

 

Start with the softest setting on the rear bar!

The thing with the Swift Sway percentages is that they are compared to the JDM rear bar, not our USDM rear bar. The rear Swift sway is 17% stiffer than the 20mm JDM bar, which itself is a bunch stiffer than the 16mm USDM bar. That's still not going to make the Swift combo as stiff as the Cobb's, but it's not skewed as much as you might be thinking. I believe that both the Swift and Cobb sways offer a relatively 'balanced' upgrade from the USDM front + JDM rear combination, with Cobb being the stiffer option. Hope that helps.

 

+1. Our rear bar is a wet noodle in comparison, no need to worry about the Cobb's not being matched front to rear.

 

 

- Andrew