Steering mods

I was wondering if there is anything I can do to tighten up the steering in this car. While I like the handling, I wish the steering was a little less vague. So any ideas on how to tighten up the steering?

try: alignment, tire pressure, camber... if that doesnt work for you then try: coilovers, springs, or shocks, sway bars, endlinks, steering rack bushings... if those dont work for you: [url]www.rev-lab.com[/url] and get a totally rebuilt steering rack :D Keefe

Any suggestions on steering rack bushings? How difficult are they to install?

Have your dealer check your car out. The steering should be firm, quick and precise. The 15:1 steering rack (same as the STi) is exceptional. Perhaps something is wrong. Kevin

Maybe he feels the sluggishness from off spec camber alignment. The steering does feel heavier as there is more negative camber on this car. Keefe

Steering rack bushings can be a PITA.. it's better off taking off the whole rack IMO. I hate to tug on the rack and possibly bend one of the power steering fluid lines. Keefe

The Legacy only has 1 steering rack bushing I believe, the other mount is metal IIRC. If you just concerned with turn-in, I would check tire pressure first, then alignment settings before any mods are done.

[quote name='Xenonk']Maybe he feels the sluggishness from off spec camber alignment. The steering does feel heavier as there is more negative camber on this car. Keefe[/QUOTE] Hmmm...my stock WRX had more camber than my stock GT. Kevin

[quote name='Opie']The Legacy only has 1 steering rack bushing I believe, the other mount is metal IIRC. If you just concerned with turn-in, I would check tire pressure first, then alignment settings before any mods are done.[/QUOTE] nah, it's two metal clamps supporting the two rubber bushings.. I tried to put my WRX Rev-Lab (11.5:1 vs. 15:1) steering rack on the GT (it would have made the car do 1.9 turns lock to lock :D :eek: ).. I didnt complete the job because I had to come up with a coupling for the power steering hard lines and I think the tie rods needed to be replaced with the GT ones cuz the WRX looked too short for the car. Keefe

[quote name='gtguy']Hmmm...my stock WRX had more camber than my stock GT. Kevin[/QUOTE] WRX is about 300 lbs lighter, a shorter wheelbase, and different wheel weights. Keefe

[quote name='Xenonk']WRX is about 300 lbs lighter, a shorter wheelbase, and different wheel weights. Keefe[/QUOTE] I know, but you said "there is more negative camber on this car." I suppose my first question should have been, compared to what? My WRX's stock rear camber, for example, was -1.3. Hence the observation about the WRX's stock camber settings. Kevin

oops, my mistake, what I meant to say was "as the car gains more negative camber [from adjustments], the steering gets more sluggish on the GT". keefe

[quote name='Xenonk']oops, my mistake, what I meant to say was "as the car gains more negative camber [from adjustments], the steering gets more sluggish on the GT". keefe[/QUOTE] Aha! Understanding has arrived. Kevin

I think it is basically (hi guys, writing from sema press room!) a combination of truly hideous rubber - I got to test the USDM Legacy finally - and soft suspension, coupled with AWD. Basically, with the weight distributed where it is above and forward of the front axle, it isn't going to feel as sharp right there. Having the front wheels powered always tends to have the front feel a little less quick to turn. And then the wheels and the suspension are conspiring together to make it feel very sluggish. There isn't much of anything wrong with the steering rack, it is really the same unit as in the STi, ditto for the steering wheel size. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

Hi Paul We hope you give us a SEMA wonderful things you have seen this week list so we know what to look for .

[quote name='apexjapan']I think it is basically (hi guys, writing from sema press room!) a combination of truly hideous rubber - I got to test the USDM Legacy finally - and soft suspension, coupled with AWD. Basically, with the weight distributed where it is above and forward of the front axle, it isn't going to feel as sharp right there. Having the front wheels powered always tends to have the front feel a little less quick to turn. And then the wheels and the suspension are conspiring together to make it feel very sluggish. There isn't much of anything wrong with the steering rack, it is really the same unit as in the STi, ditto for the steering wheel size. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Funny, I thought the GT Steering wheel size is a bit smaller and that the steering rack construction are different (different length on the tie-rods, and the hard lines are bent differently).. I noticed this when I was trying to mount my Rev Lab quick steering rack from a GDA. Keefe

[quote name='apexjapan']I think it is basically (hi guys, writing from sema press room!) a combination of truly hideous rubber - I got to test the USDM Legacy finally - and soft suspension, coupled with AWD. Basically, with the weight distributed where it is above and forward of the front axle, it isn't going to feel as sharp right there. Having the front wheels powered always tends to have the front feel a little less quick to turn. And then the wheels and the suspension are conspiring together to make it feel very sluggish. There isn't much of anything wrong with the steering rack, it is really the same unit as in the STi, ditto for the steering wheel size. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Talk about real-time reporting! Paul, would you mind posting your impressions between the USDM and JDM Legacy when you get the chance? Aside from the obvious differences in some parts, I think folks would really like to know subjectively how far off we are from the JDM versions. Ken

[quote name='Ken S']Talk about real-time reporting! Paul, would you mind posting your impressions between the USDM and JDM Legacy when you get the chance? Aside from the obvious differences in some parts, I think folks would really like to know subjectively how far off we are from the JDM versions. Ken[/QUOTE] I think he misses y'all ;)

Well, just another quick note. Cannot go really indepth at the moment, but having tested it on some Cali roads, unless the rest of America has vastly better tarmac, I can understand the reasoning for the softer suspension setup. Ride quality is important, and the difference between Japanese and American roads large enough that the feel is about the same - the softer American suspension being able to absorb the much rougher stuff that you all have to drive on. The main shortcoming of the USDM Legacy is the rubber, much more than the suspension. The suspension is adequete for most people. I did not feel that uncomfortable with it on what passes for curves in California, but it does roll quite a bit more than the JDM version. Sharp left/rights don't unsettle it despite having a lot of lean, so it is mainly the confidence factor that is affected by the roll, not the actual road holding ability. Hard cornering will compress the suspension fully at even a fairly moderate pace, so I can see the lift-throttle oversteer scenario happening, especially over bumpy roads. Changing it for the enthusiasts would not take all that much, though, and it should be offered as an option from the dealerships. That is another story completely, though, Subaru's inability to realize that Americans actually love having options more than even the Japanese do. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[quote name='apexjapan']Well, just another quick note. Cannot go really indepth at the moment, but having tested it on some Cali roads, unless the rest of America has vastly better tarmac, I can understand the reasoning for the softer suspension setup. Ride quality is important, and the difference between Japanese and American roads large enough that the feel is about the same - the softer American suspension being able to absorb the much rougher stuff that you all have to drive on. The main shortcoming of the USDM Legacy is the rubber, much more than the suspension. The suspension is adequete for most people. I did not feel that uncomfortable with it on what passes for curves in California, but it does roll quite a bit more than the JDM version. Sharp left/rights don't unsettle it despite having a lot of lean, so it is mainly the confidence factor that is affected by the roll, not the actual road holding ability. Hard cornering will compress the suspension fully at even a fairly moderate pace, so I can see the lift-throttle oversteer scenario happening, especially over bumpy roads. Changing it for the enthusiasts would not take all that much, though, and it should be offered as an option from the dealerships. That is another story completely, though, Subaru's inability to realize that Americans actually love having options more than even the Japanese do. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Cliff's Notes: Tires. Springs. SOA sucks. DM reads all of Paul's posts thoroughly.

Anyone have any experience with this: [url]http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/PSRS/PSRS.htm[/url] Will they fit on an 05 legacy?

That is a direct copy of the Whiteline ALK (Anti Lift Kit). It will work on any of the older Subaru's, but will not work on the new Legacy. They changed the design of the suspension up front - and incorporated the changes that the Perrin ALK, I mean, PSRS creates. And, in fact, Subaru went a bit better on those changes, so all Legacy GT owners came out quite a bit ahead in that area compared to the older Subarus. So no, it wouldn't do much for the steering. I have to add something here - I've found very little wrong with the current Legacy GT's steering. It is rather quick and precise, especially in conjunction with the small steering wheel. If you are feeling that it isn't that much up to what you are looking for, you are likely responding to the small rear anti-sway bar and poor rubber that is on the Legacy GT in America. Upgrade the rear swaybar from the 16mm used for america to the 20mm OEM bar used in Japan, or look at the Cusco options offered by other vendors. And get some real rubber on. :D Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[quote name='apexjapan']That is a direct copy of the Whiteline ALK (Anti Lift Kit). It will work on any of the older Subaru's, but will not work on the new Legacy. They changed the design of the suspension up front - and incorporated the changes that the Perrin ALK, I mean, PSRS creates. And, in fact, Subaru went a bit better on those changes, so all Legacy GT owners came out quite a bit ahead in that area compared to the older Subarus. So no, it wouldn't do much for the steering. I have to add something here - I've found very little wrong with the current Legacy GT's steering. It is rather quick and precise, especially in conjunction with the small steering wheel. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Blasphemer! :lol: Kevin

[quote name='apexjapan']That is a direct copy of the Whiteline ALK (Anti Lift Kit). It will work on any of the older Subaru's, but will not work on the new Legacy. They changed the design of the suspension up front - and incorporated the changes that the Perrin ALK, I mean, PSRS creates. And, in fact, Subaru went a bit better on those changes, so all Legacy GT owners came out quite a bit ahead in that area compared to the older Subarus. So no, it wouldn't do much for the steering. I have to add something here - I've found very little wrong with the current Legacy GT's steering. It is rather quick and precise, especially in conjunction with the small steering wheel. If you are feeling that it isn't that much up to what you are looking for, you are likely responding to the small rear anti-sway bar and poor rubber that is on the Legacy GT in America. Upgrade the rear swaybar from the 16mm used for america to the 20mm OEM bar used in Japan, or look at the Cusco options offered by other vendors. And get some real rubber on. :D Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/QUOTE] Thanks for that info. How would sway bars affect my car on snow? I plan on taking my car to the mountains when I go snowboarding and I heard that sway bars can make the car tailhappy.

[quote name='nu8reed']Thanks for that info. How would sway bars affect my car on snow? I plan on taking my car to the mountains when I go snowboarding and I heard that sway bars can make the car tailhappy.[/QUOTE] Mismatched swaybars can make the car tail happy, for example if you're running a 20mm bar in the front, and say a 25mm bar in the back. As long as you are something approaching size-matched, you should be okay. Just keep in mind that you want to be on the understeering side of neutral. Kevin