Stage2 Data Logs

If you guys have some time to kill take a gander at a few of my stage2 data logs and provide some feedback.

 

Here is my setup:

• Gutted OEM UP
  
• FLOW Shorty DP
  
• AVO panel filter
  
• Cobb APv2 w/protune
  
• otherwise stock

All logs were taken with an atmospheric at 13.494 psi and in 3rd gear (5EAT). In some of the logs you might notice that I let off of the accelerator when I hit around 80 mph. They will also need to be converted from a *.pdf to a *.csv.

 

Thank you for your efforts!

06-01-2008 22h47m30s.pdf

06-01-2008 22h48m21s.pdf

06-01-2008 22h48m57s.pdf

You need to start your WOT log earlier to check the low end performance.

 

Let the car drift down to 2000 rpm in 3rd gear and then punch it all in one shot. You should be at 100% throttle starting at 2000 rpm.

 

Personally, I like to log load direct since it is more accurate than calculating it from MAF. Not a big deal.

 

You don't need to log MAP since you know the atmospheric pressure.

 

You don't need to log accelerator opening angle. For the engine tuning purposes, it is only important to see throttle opening angle. If you are trying to diagnose the throttle body then that's different.

 

Wastegate is really low below 4800 rpm. It looks like the WGDC is being controlled by the stock alternate WGDC table. Stock alternate table starts ramping up from 40% at 2800 rpm.

 

Timing is a little bit lower than I would expect for lower load (due to your lower atmospheric pressure).

Forgot to mention.

 

For at least one of the logs, include fine learning knock correction. Your KC is dropping. It's probably how your tuner set up the DA table but I would double check the FLKC.

Timing looks really low overall.

Timing is a bit on the low side, but IIRC I talked to the Anthony (the tuner) during Jim_KT's tune and he mentioned that the this particular car was rather knock prone. Every car is different. While the timing being run might be low relative to most LGT's, it was appropriate to yield a safe tune on this car. Also, tuning 5EAT LGT's is a bit different. Since the torque converter holds the engine at certain rpm points for a while, you have to maintain a bit lower timing in those area to avoid knock. I can't remember the exact rpm points, but the first one is more or less the stall speed of the converter and the second one is higher up in the 5000 rpm range when the converter finally fully locks up.

he mentioned that the this particular car was rather knock prone.

I don't get this...there shouldn't not be a difference between cars with the same setup. They are machines not people with feelings.

Mine is 5eat and I run roughly 8 degrees more timing across the board w/o knock on winter gas. Something else must be going on to cause knock because thats down some serious power.

Timing is a bit on the low side, but IIRC I talked to the Anthony (the tuner) during Jim_KT's tune and he mentioned that the this particular car was rather knock prone. Every car is different. While the timing being run might be low relative to most LGT's, it was appropriate to yield a safe tune on this car. Also, tuning 5EAT LGT's is a bit different. Since the torque converter holds the engine at certain rpm points for a while, you have to maintain a bit lower timing in those area to avoid knock. I can't remember the exact rpm points, but the first one is more or less the stall speed of the converter and the second one is higher up in the 5000 rpm range when the converter finally fully locks up.

 

It's true that every car is different and that a good tune will be customized for each car. There will be minor differences.

 

However, he is running A LOT less timing. Not just a little bit. Take a look at his load. For the low load that he is running, he should have a lot more timing. This includes the fact that he has a 5EAT.

I don't get this...there shouldn't not be a difference between cars with the same setup. They are machines not people with feelings.

 

I think you have mentioned tuning before. You should know that all cars are not the same. Even with the exact same parts on the same model car different tuning strategies are sometimes required to get the best possible results. Some cars are just more knock prone than others. Others you can throw just about anything you want at them and they just keep taking it without complaining.

It's true that every car is different and that a good tune will be customized for each car. There will be minor differences.

 

However, he is running A LOT less timing. Not just a little bit. Take a look at his load. For the low load that he is running, he should have a lot more timing. This includes the fact that he has a 5EAT.

 

I agree that the load that he is hitting is pretty low. As for the timing, I can't speak to it personally since I didn't tune his car. I have seen ostensibly identical cars running the same AFR's see one car take 6 degrees more timing than the other. They really do vary that much.

 

As for boostsr20 running 8 degrees more timing, that's great. You have 93 octane pump gas and a car that was likely less finicky.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

When I get home this evening, we will be logging once again in order to hit the points that mickeyd2005 mentioned. My logs were posted in order to have another set of eyes (other than my own) interpret them.

 

I'm not questioning the tune as the power delivery is quite smooth and I have been pleased with it thus far. The reason why I am data logging is so that I can file my data points away for future reference. I am quite anal with keeping records on the car. Also, we wanted to see how it was running after nearly 2k miles on the tune.

 

I've been researching what all the data values, etc. mean and indicate on my spare time at work so forgive my "green-ness". Since the KC values are positive, I am going to venture and say that the vehicle isn't knocking. Yes? No?

 

When I sat down with the tuner, I expressed that I valued safety above all else. Yes, I realize that when you modify that you give up some margin of safety and reliability.

 

Here's a little bit more information on my setup that I forgot to mention:

• CA91 gas
  
• Ridgecrest is about 2300 ft ASL

OP, how many miles have you driven on the car since the last ecu flash or reset?

 

Can you tell us what your AFR learning A, B, C, and D value is?

Does CA get winter blend gas? I would compare my 93 winter blend to a normal 91 octane gas. Something still doesn't seem quite right but all cars are different.

yeah, we get winter gas blend.... CA91 is already piss-water, our winter gas is even worse.... :/

OP, how many miles have you driven on the car since the last ecu flash or reset?

 

Can you tell us what your AFR learning A, B, C, and D value is?

 

 

Just to be safe, I'll say that we've put nearly 1.3k miles since the last ECU reset. 2k miles total for the tune.

 

Unfortunately, I do not know what the AFR learning is. The parameter Air Fuel Learning #1 will be added to the next set of data logs.

Just to be safe, I'll say that we've put nearly 1.3k miles since the last ECU reset. 2k miles total for the tune.

 

Unfortunately, I do not know what the AFR learning is. The parameter Air Fuel Learning #1 will be added to the next set of data logs.

 

 

Don't add it to the datalog.

 

Are you logging with enginuity? Just check it in your driveway. If you scroll down the list of parameters, you can select AFR Learning A, B, C, and D.

Don't add it to the datalog.

 

Are you logging with enginuity? Just check it in your driveway. If you scroll down the list of parameters, you can select AFR Learning A, B, C, and D.

 

I'm using ecuExplorer.

Use enginuity to log, there are more available parameters.

I'll look into Enginuity, but to the last of my knowledge it did not support the APv2 dongle.

That would be correct, you would need a ebay or taxtrix cord.

I think you have mentioned tuning before. You should know that all cars are not the same. Even with the exact same parts on the same model car different tuning strategies are sometimes required to get the best possible results. Some cars are just more knock prone than others. Others you can throw just about anything you want at them and they just keep taking it without complaining.

Im not disagreeing im just saying it shouldn't be that way.

 

 

By the same logic 2 of your downpipes would make different power on the same car...

You need to start your WOT log earlier to check the low end performance.

 

Let the car drift down to 2000 rpm in 3rd gear and then punch it all in one shot. You should be at 100% throttle starting at 2000 rpm.

 

Updated logs with the same atmospheric pressure of 13.494 psi. Again, CA91 gas.

08-01-2008 20h10m14s.pdf

08-01-2008 20h11m51s.pdf

Those logs look better.

 

I would recommend that you either get a tactrix cable or a vag-com cable and log using enginuity so that you can check fine learning knock correction.

 

In your first log, you have a knock at 3600 rpm. However, the rest of the timing reduction appears to be due to FLKC. FLKC is not necessarily knock in this log. It could be anywhere between 1.6 and 2.2 g/rev. Let's say you have 1/2 degree too much advance at 1.7 g/rev region... that could very easily result in 1.4 degree of timing pulled in all regions between 1.6 g/rev and 2.2 g/rev.

 

Not a big deal, but I think the tune can be better.

mickeyd2005, thanks for looking at the latest logs.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you determine that I have knock in the log that is timestamped 20h10m14s? Is it the drop in PWGDC?

KC = IAM X DA + FLKC + FC

 

When knock occurs, Feedback Correction is in increments of 2 degrees. Your KC dropped 2 degrees right there and your total timing dropped 2 degrees. I know that your DA is supposed to be 7 at this particular location based upon the other logs.

 

This knock didn't show up in the other log so it is intermittent. Not a big deal. For me, I would subtract 0.2 degrees from the base timing at this location.

 

I would be more interested in isolating the FLKC since that is causing timing to be pulled all over the place.