stage 2 1/2?

I ran a legacy the other night in Asheville, NC. and was wondering what stage 2 1/2 was... the only stages that come to my mind are redlines/cobalt ss's and skittle type stages.

He had a pretty large mod list overall but was just wondering on this one.

Thanks- NCstatredline, Blue Ion Redline

Stage 1:

Stage 1 is generally the starting and ending point for a majority of the members on this board. Stg1 is the least likely of all of the stages to void your warranty and is also the cheapest.

Stage1 consist of the following mods: COBB Access Port http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=3120 This access port can hold different aftermarket maps too. TDC Tuning and PDX tuning also make stg 1 maps that will give you more HP than the COBB maps. Typical Wheel horsepower ratings for a stock legacy is 191WHP. With the COBB AP alone your looking at around 225WHP and with TDC/PDX stg1 your looking at around 237-240WHP. COST: There are two version of the access port.

1. Version 1: Older, but cheaper. Can't really buy these new anymore so they usually go for around $400-$500 used depending on the maps you get with it.

2. Version 2: Smaller, faster and more functions. Usually around $700 new, $750 with stg1 TDC or PDX maps

Stage 2:

There is much contorversy about what calssifies stage 2. I have been on these boards now for 2 years and I have seen many many different takes...

This is what the majority of members will agree with me on.

Stage 2 at a minumum: Cattless stock down pipe/after market down pipe. the key to stage 2 is either the stock catylatic converter is removed from the down pipe or a high flow or catless down pipe is added. You will also need to use COBB/TDC/PDX stage 2 map. WHY???? because you will need to eliminate your EGT (Electronic Gas Temperature) which monitors your exahuast temps. The Cobb/TDC/PDX maps will do this for you.

Stage 2 can also consist of: Catless up pipe, top mount intercooler, Dyno tune, ProTune, Under drive pulleys Cat back exhaust, Intake and certain turbo upgrades. REMEMBER, its not nessacarily the mods that make you a stage, it's the amount of mods and the correct combination. Wheel Horse power ratings usually range from 240 - 260 depending on your tune. COST

This really depends on what parts you buy... It can range from $400 - $2000

$400 = used access port and decatting your own stock DP. $2000+ if you buy all the parts listed

Stage 2.5:

Some members may disagree with me on this... but this is an in between point of stg 2 and 3. For stage 2.5 you need(at a minimum): Up pipe, Down Pipe, Top mount intercooler, COBB AP, DYNO or protune. Basically at this point you have maxed the potential of your stock turbo and Injectors (19.5 lbs of boost is the highest safe range with our turbos and injectors) this stage can also include Under drive pully, cat back exhaust, Intake. Wheel Horse Power ratings usuall go from 245-290 (max) with these mods, depending on your tune. At a minumum your gonna spend $2000+ for new parts. Again.. you can find all this stuff used for much cheaper.

Stage 3:

This is a relatively new stage to the Legacy. VERY few members on this board have ventured this far and its requires a large amount of $$$

As you may or may not know the legacy motor hold a HUGE amount of pontential. Stage 2.5 and 3 really show off this potential. Stage 3 mods- Up pipe, down pipe, cat back exhaust, Intake, Top mount intercooler (for smaller aftermarket turbo installations) Front mount intercooler (for larger turbo applications) DYNO or Protune ( a must with an aftermarket turbo) Bigger Fuel Injectors (a must with a bigger tubo) Bigger Fuel pump, Bigger Turbo.

Other recomendations that you should consider: Alcohol injection or a.k.a. Wet injection (keeps the charge temps low and makes more power, used when you have a Top mount intercooler and you want to upgrade your turbo and not use a Front mount intercooler. this can also be used with the stock turbo and with a front moutn intercooler) Transmission cooler (for automatic transmission applications, keeps the tranny from boiling the fluid).

With this set up you will making a TON of power if tuned right. If you have a clutch, upgrade it. Automatic transmissions can be upgraded too. Some members have done STi swaps. This consists of swapping the STi manifold which is inverted, for our non inverted manifold. This is not direct bolt up and requires special fabrication. COST: A LOT OF MONEY!!! you're looking at minumum of $4000 if you do all the installs and tuning yourself. If your not a gear head... expect to spend $5500 plus. Wheel Horse power? Really it depends on your tuner. You will here tuners talk about being "conservative" this means making a tune that will be good for daily driving. I have seen Stage 3 legacys range from 300WHP to a monstor 450 WHP. I guess the only restriction to WHP #'s is the depth of your pockets. STi's have been made to put out 1000WHP....

Once upon a time, performance shops would put together "staged" upgrade packages. Two or three stages of motor upgrades, two or three stages of brake upgrades, two or three stages of handling mods, etc. Every shop did it differently, because they all had their own style. Shop A's stage 1 might be way more in-depth than Shop B's Stage 3. And that was OK, because everyone knew that "Stage 1" and "Stage 3" meant thing - "Stage X" is only meaningful if you know whose stage it was. Like "Shop A Stage 1" or "Shop B Stage 2."

But for some reason, a bunch of people in the Subaru community got the idea that Cobb invented the "stage" idea. Cobb stage 2 is the true stage 2, and all others are impostors. And those people started telling other people. And using the term "Stage 2" when they meant "Cobb Stage 2." And pretty soon everyone thinks that "Stage 2" actually means something. Which was basically OK until nobody even realized anymore that they were really talking about Cobb Stage 2.

Then the question came up, "What is Stage 3?" Since nobody remembered where the "Stage 2" definition came from, or even the "Stage" concept in the first place, nobody knew what to do about the idea of a Stage 3. Or Stage two-and-a-half. Or 4.

So, Stage 2 means whatever Cobb says it means. Anything higher means whatever you say it means.

245-290 whp?

mid typing I had a eureka moment of, oh maybe my car is lighter than a legacy.

Sure enough, 3,000 vs. 3,500 ibs

power to weight ftw!

And there are people pulling a lot more power from the 4-cylinder engine, somewhat like 700hp...

(Not that I really endorse street-racing)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAbR7qpBHE]YouTube - 700HP Subaru Impreza[/ame]

But track-racing should be OK.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfG-OeFDTvg]YouTube - '95 Impreza L Drag Car goes 9.67 @ 141mph[/ame]

Just notice how the Impreza does a comeback after being behind in the start!

700 isn't bad. Our ecotec engine block can handle over 1,000.

What is the redline on a legacy gt? What really helped me seemed to be that he was shifting when I still had a ways to go.

i have a stage 69.

In your quest for Horsepower there are three options:

1. Do you want a LOT of power?

2. Do you want it low cost?

3. Do you want your car Reliable?

You can only have TWO of the above. Pick any two.

In your quest for Horsepower there are three options:

 

1. Do you want a LOT of power?

2. Do you want it low cost?

3. Do you want your car Reliable?

 

You can only have TWO of the above. Pick any two.

I chose all three because I have an Ion Redline...

I'm not getting a legacy, I just wanted to know about a car I beat the other night. My car has an intake and is otherwise bone stock. After he listed his mods I was wondering about how much power he was pushing and see if I could find him over here.

You don't have all three. Don't fool yourself.

You car's 210? 220whp? isn't a lot. 275whp is NOT "a lot" of horsepower. 300whp is 'getting there'.

In your quest for Horsepower there are three options:

 

1. Do you want a LOT of power?

2. Do you want it low cost?

3. Do you want your car Reliable?

 

You can only have TWO of the above. Pick any two.

Nice, I like that analogy.

You don't have all three. Don't fool yourself.

 

You car's 210? 220whp? isn't a lot. 275whp is NOT "a lot" of horsepower. 300whp is 'getting there'.

You're stupid. Saturns are ghey.

You don't have all three. Don't fool yourself.

 

You car's 210? 220whp? isn't a lot. 275whp is NOT "a lot" of horsepower. 300whp is 'getting there'.

It's a lot more than many other cars on the road and it's plenty for what I'm doing.

You're stupid. Saturns are ghey.

why?

It's a lot more than many other cars on the road and it's plenty for what I'm doing.

Right - but I'm saying, of the three options I gave - you don't have all three...nobody has all three. I'm not saying your car isn't quick - I'm saying if you want it to have a LOT of power, it will cost you (and everyone else) IF you want it reliable, too.

Because I said so.

That's pretty ignorant

Hey guys, not everyone is an LGT fan. This guy likes his Saturn Ion, no biggie. That's why there are as many brands out there as there are. To each his own.

Just like the old Chevy I'm building, it won't be the fastest car out there, but it will be mine.

Right - but I'm saying, of the three options I gave - you don't have all three...nobody has all three. I'm not saying your car isn't quick - I'm saying if you want it to have a LOT of power, it will cost you (and everyone else) IF you want it reliable, too.

 

Fair enough, and it's all a matter of opinion.

I like my car for the power to money spent. Like you said, power costs you. If I wanted a LOT of power with just bolt ons, I'd go twincharged but it's not for me.

Another thing to consider about your race against the LGT was the driver. Case in point, I got "beat" by a Nissan Versa on the freeway the other day, only because he was willing to drive faster than I was. We kept accelerating (not at a fast pace) and he out-drove me. Why? I didn't want to go blazing through an area where I knew cops like to sit, doing almost triple digits.

The "driver" component swings both ways.

I chose all three because I have an Ion Redline...

 

I'm not getting a legacy, I just wanted to know about a car I beat the other night. My car has an intake and is otherwise bone stock. After he listed his mods I was wondering about how much power he was pushing and see if I could find him over here.

I am not even trying to put you down or anything but after checking the redline forums, even with tons of mods for example

http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/654181-post8.html

The dude is running 13.994. How in the world can you say that with just a bone stock saturn with an intake can run anywhere near that... which btw a slew of 5mt LGTs can run high 13's STOCK. I mean stock 5eat i would say sure you can go head to head due to the drive train loss but really now.

The guy you raced either does not know how to shift AT ALL. Or it was a stock 5eat that didn't even launch. Also for your information:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0405scc_2004_saturn_ion_red_line/index.html

They managed a 0-60 in 7.1 seconds... 1/4 in 15.3 at 94... Are you serious right now... i mean seriously... an intake suddently gave you 0-60 in high 5's? and quarter in mid 14s? Give me a break.

Another thing to consider about your race against the LGT was the driver. Case in point, I got "beat" by a Nissan Versa on the freeway the other day, only because he was willing to drive faster than I was. We kept accelerating (not at a fast pace) and he out-drove me. Why? I didn't want to go blazing through an area where I knew cops like to sit, doing almost triple digits.

 

The "driver" component swings both ways.

1st off, awesome deal with your stingray. Someday....

Lol, he was the one that led us down to the highway and he wanted to race in an area I didn't. I think we shut it down about the same on our runs.