So, I bought a Legacy.....

Hi guys.

I'm originally from India and doing my MBA in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I came to Canada last october. Got terrified seeing the snow and decided that AWD was the only way to go :-)

After finding a seemingly good one at Kijiji(popular here), test drove senior citizen owned 2002 Legacy L sedan, liked it and then bought it. (blew almost all my savings into this car because I needed a dependable ride to get me to university everyday)

Then yesterday, I took it to a dealer(dexters subaru) for wheel balancing and had the mechanic go over the car. He said that overall the car was in good condition BUT

- He says as he pulled into the garage, his service manager almost dropped his coffee listening to racket the engine was making. He says car needs new pistons.

- He hoisted the car and, with a flashlight, showed me that left side headgasket was going to go off in some time and that he could see signs of coolant seepage.

They proceeded to give me a $2400 estimate for everything.

Very very depressed right now, as I blew all my savings on this and no cash left and this is my only means to go to university everyday :-(

Dont know where I screwed it up

- During the test drive, engine made a lot of clatter initially but started becoming smooth by the time I had driven it for 4-5kms. I had noticed the same on other imprezzas I had seen plus I had read on this particular Subaru trait and hence, ignored it.

- After the engine is warmed up, car is essentially a half crank start car. All it takes a small half second or so pulse of the starter and it springs to life. I had used this to judge the health of the engine during my test drive.

- The other dealer(there are two dealers in my city and no other reputed 3rd paty Subaru mechanic), where it has been maintained every 6 months since purchase by the previous owner, indicates nothing of this sort on his service records!

1) I searched all night yesterday and found about them acknowledging the problem and having a "coolant conditioner" to be added. Which brand is this actually? anything similar I can pick up if the dealer doesnt have it?

2) How to make sure that this Engine pulls up 3 years without breaking down on me?(that is the time I estimate before I will have some spare cash for the car)

3) Is it likely that in 2009 i.e. today, the dealer/Subaru will honour the #WWP-99 on a used car that is out of warranty, but has only 60k kms on the odo? (37500 miles)

I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortunes with the car. I know how you feel though, It's very frustrating. When did you buy the car, in October? If so, the lemon law probably would not apply.

I can't help but wonder what this "senior citizen" did to this poor car to foul the pistons and partially blow a head gaskets. Possibly 1/4 mile drag races at the old-age home after bingo?

3) Is it likely that in 2009 i.e. today, the dealer/Subaru will honour the #WWP-99 on a used car that is out of warranty, but has only 60k kms on the odo? (37500 miles)

Anyway, it is extremely unlikely that the dealer with do ANYTHING for you if the car is out of warranty. Dealerships in general don't make a habit of doing people favors. I would get a second opinion. Take it to a regular mechanic since it is out of warranty anyway.

Again sorry about your car and good luck getting everything taken care of. Keep us updated.

Ben

How bout getting the coolant system flushed and Subaru coolant conditioner added?

Any chances of it sealing the external leak? Or atleast prolonging failure of HG?

Get a second opinion before you agree to have anything done. Any well equiped and competent mechanic can perform diagnostics.

Oil change, coolant flush, replace hoses if they need it. Coolant can be leaking from there. This is inexpensive routine maintanance.

If the car runs pretty well, just drive it. Keep some money put aside just in case. Deal with it when you have to.

Get a second opinion before you agree to have anything done. Any well equiped and competent mechanic can perform diagnostics.

 

Oil change, coolant flush, replace hoses if they need it. Coolant can be leaking from there. This is inexpensive routine maintanance.

 

If the car runs pretty well, just drive it. Keep some money put aside just in case. Deal with it when you have to.

Exactly. You should try to get as many miles as you can out of that engine before you need to worry about doing any major engine rebuilds. Don't just mindlessly agree to whatever they have to say. Do some research like you are doing here on the forums. Get a few opinions also, from dealerships and independent mechanics.

I've been told I will be needing a new short block soon, but I'm not going to run out and buy one today just because I hear a bit of ticking/knocking from the pistons. I'm putting some money aside and I'm going to worry about it when my engine kicks the bucket, getting more opinions as time goes by. You can have a compression test done to check out the compression of the cylinders, and have the oil pressure checked to make sure everything is being lubricated properly.

Get a second opinion before you agree to have anything done. Any well equiped and competent mechanic can perform diagnostics

Sounds good. Will try and search for independent Subaru Mechanics near where I live.

Oil change, coolant flush, replace hoses if they need it. Coolant can be leaking from there. This is inexpensive routine maintanance.

Will do. Service records say that coolant was last changed at 11/02/2006 but nowhere do they mention WWP-99 or Subaru Coolant conditioner on the records.

I guess this is good time to change the coolant too?

If the car runs pretty well, just drive it. Keep some money put aside just in case. Deal with it when you have to.

Yes, I plan to drive it because its my only means of going to University. I spent so much so that I could go and study without bothering on maintainance or rain/snow/storm. Looks like I did the wrong thing buying a used Legacy.

Will baby the car from now on because totally out of money.

When did you buy it? If only recently, can't you go back to where you bought it from and ask them to fix it?

I bought it from a friend's Uncle who had got pretty old and finally given up on driving at all. They were going to store the car for their grand son to drive when he is of the age, but I had this bright idea of picking up a senior citizen driven car with low miles and only dealer servicing every 6 months :-(

However I did send Subaru the following mail.

Hello.

My name is RJ.

We bought our first Subaru car about a week ago from one of our friends. It's a 2002 Legacy L sedan with about 60,000kms on the odometer. The car has always been regularly serviced by dealer only (Steele Subaru in Darthmouth) and has been thoroughly pampered and cared for and no expenses spared on its maintainence. The vehicle has always been praised by the dealer for its good condition. However, yesterday, when I took it to Dexters Subaru in Halifax, they told me that engine produced too much engine clatter and that the head gasket was starting to externally leak coolant. The vehicle has had it's WWM-96 and WWQ-01 service recalls. However, I'm shocked to notice that nowhere in the service records is it mentioned that the WWP-99 service campaign performed (Where Subaru mentions that due to the open deck construction of the block, headgasket leakage is a possibility and hence will gurantee the gasket upto 100k miles or 8 years upon addition of Subaru Coolant Conditioner).

I have been a long term fan of Subaru vehicles and previous Subarus in our family (2.2L engines) have been faultless. However, I'll be very depressed if my long term faith in the brand is shaken because of this. My own personal search on the internet has shown that Subaru of America doesn't treat customers well on this count. I write to you because I love my car and believe Subaru makes good cars. Please guide.

Don't just mindlessly agree to whatever they have to say. Do some research like you are doing here on the forums.

Yes, Sir.

Dont plan to do that. I just got worried after the mechanic used his flashlight and showed me/told me that the coolant had started to seep from the left head gasket.

One thing that may decrease the clatter is to use a heavier oil. Use 5W40 if you haven't tried it yet. (The number after the W is important)

If the headgasket leak only goes to the outside of the engine you may try some radiator sealant.

And instead of fixing the engine you may want to get a second engine that's in good basic condition as a replacement engine (compression test is always good, if you can have it started and running so you can hear it it's also good.). Do some overhaul on it (checking valve clearances and make sure that everything is in order, like the clutch.)

It sometimes easier to have a drop in replacement engine than to rebuild the engine in the car.

You got played sucka YOu must not have much mechanical savvy or knew/know much about Subaru's and dealer picked up on that and never said a word the vehicle is out of warranty so you are left with a failing engine that you have to fix out of pocket. If youre not very knowledgeable about cars when shopping for a used vehicle you should def have a friend or mechanic tag along so the dealer wont be able to shaft you.

I went yesterday to look at a used 2008 LGT for $21000 even so of course im skeptical i pop the hood and what do you know someone has put it back togeher ( likely it was modified then someting happend money wise and they had to sell or they needed a different type cacr OR they modified it and something when wrong ) then i start it up and put my foot on the clutch and it felt like grinding wheel. Then come to find out that it isnt under warrant anymore ( it only had 20310 miles on it ) so that lets you know that someone modified and voided the warranty

Well my fellow subaru owner def look around for a cheaper mechanic that knows boxer engine or look for a completely different engine you will find that it is much cheaper to swap one out that to tear it down and rebuild

That car will be sold to person

Ah crap. Popped the hood today to check for coolant level.

The bottle is totally empty and lots of brown spots inside :-(

Does that mean an internal leak?

 

I went yesterday to look at a used 2008 LGT for $21000 even so of course im skeptical i pop the hood and what do you know someone has put it back togeher ( likely it was modified then someting happend money wise and they had to sell or they needed a different type cacr OR they modified it and something when wrong ) then i start it up and put my foot on the clutch and it felt like grinding wheel. Then come to find out that it isnt under warrant anymore ( it only had 20310 miles on it ) so that lets you know that someone modified and voided the warranty

 

 

Well my fellow subaru owner def look around for a cheaper mechanic that

I feel bad for whoever you take car shopping. You don't even know what you're talking about. Warrantys aren't just voided because you modded the car!

Guess you've never heard of Magnus Moss

I feel bad for whoever you take car shopping. You don't even know what you're talking about. Warrantys aren't just voided because you modded the car!

Guess you've never heard of Magnus Moss

I didnt say they are voided just for modification @$$h0l3 I said one reason is due to modification. Why would you buy a 2008 model car WITH NO WARRANTY that has less that 36K miles? That is the point.

eat it

I didnt say they are voided just for modification @$ I said one reason is due to modification. Why would you buy a 2008 model car WITH NO WARRANTY that has less that 36K miles? That is the point.

 

 

 

eat it

Why is there no warranty on it? A manufacture cannot just void an entire warranty. You still cite no reason as to why a 2008 vehicle would have no warranty. You still obviously have NO idea about who Magnus Moss is and about the Magnus Moss act. I would have thought you would have at least looked it up before submitting your half-assed reply which still doesn't answer why there is no warranty. "If you sell your vehicle you can transfer the Subaru warranty coverage to the person you sell your vehicle to, you must pay a $50.00 transfer fee and you must transfer the coverage to them at time of sale, we can assist you in the transfer to make sure it is done right. If you trade it to an auto dealer you can not transfer the coverage to the customer the dealer sell the vehicle to."

As far as eating it goes.... present it!

Why is there no warranty on it? A manufacture cannot just void an entire warranty. You still cite no reason as to why a 2008 vehicle would have no warranty. You still obviously have NO idea about who Magnus Moss is and about the Magnus Moss act. I would have thought you would have at least looked it up before submitting your half-assed reply which still doesn't answer why there is no warranty. "If you sell your vehicle you can transfer the Subaru warranty coverage to the person you sell your vehicle to, you must pay a $50.00 transfer fee and you must transfer the coverage to them at time of sale, we can assist you in the transfer to make sure it is done right. If you trade it to an auto dealer you can not transfer the coverage to the customer the dealer sell the vehicle to."

 

 

As far as eating it goes.... present it!

Clearly you didnt look up my other post before you started down your path of righteousness So when you get a chance ( after reading the Magnus Moss Act -> like i give a $h1t about that in VA we call it the Lemon law) you will see that you responded with useless information that we all knew. Who doesnt know that you can transfer a warranty? hell who expects to not have a warranty on a 2008 model car even if you arent car savvy? while you were busy typing trying to glorify your common knowledge you should have came to the realization that I wasnt even referencing a normal situation I was referencing a 2008 LGt that I looked at that HAD NO WARRANTY with less than 36k miles this was due to the fact that the previous owner had modified it heavily the dealer that has the car now didnt give any details he just said it is sold AS-IS. So when i looked under the hood it was clear that the engine shroud had been cut ( to allow for some type of BOV) the heat shields were on it on the exhaust manifold and the external boost controller was still in the engine bay not to mention it was put back together(call me crazy but it seemed to have a AM DP unless stock ones are coated in black?). So while you are correct about warranty transfers and Magnus Moss act you have no F-ing clue as to what I was discussing maybe you should "look it up before giving a half-ass answer"

Presented

Clearly you didnt look up my other post before you started down your path of righteousness 1: So when you get a chance ( after reading the Magnus Moss Act -> like i give a about that in VA we call it the Lemon law) you will see that you responded with useless information that we all knew. 2: Who doesnt know that you can transfer a warranty? hell who expects to not have a warranty on a 2008 model car even if you arent car savvy? while you were busy typing trying to glorify your common knowledge you should have came to the realization that I wasnt even referencing a normal situation I was referencing a 3: 2008 LGt that I looked at that HAD NO WARRANTY with less than 36k miles this was due to the fact that the previous owner had modified it heavily the dealer that has the car now didnt give any details he just said it is sold AS-IS. So when i looked under the hood it was clear that the engine shroud had been cut ( to allow for some type of BOV) the heat shields were on it on the exhaust manifold and the external boost controller was still in the engine bay not to mention it was put back together(call me crazy but it seemed to have a AM DP unless stock ones are coated in black?). So while you are correct about warranty transfers and Magnus Moss act you have no F-ing clue as to what I was discussing maybe you should "look it up before giving a half-ass answer"

 

 

Presented

1: You're just plain asinine you? The Magnuss Moss act is completely different than the Lemon Law. You must be too thick to realize that though.

2: Clearly you didn't, because that is an option.

3: I call BS.... You already have no idea what you're talking about so why would I trust any information from you. A dealer cant just void the entire warranty even if the vehicle was modded up to wazoo. If you knew the Magnuss Moss act YOU WOULD KNOW THAT. You're the one whose acting all high and mighty like you know everything. The Magnuss Moss act is designed to prevent this exact situation you're talking about. Although everything you say seems like BS to me.

In other news today:cool:.......yes brown stains and loss of coolant with no external leaks is not good. Get some additive from your suby dealer and pray it seals it off.

If the head gaskets are MLS type, your looking at taking it apart to fix it. If they are composite gaskets sometimes you can retorque the heads and add the "conditioner/sealant" and it will live. I say 2400 bucks for head gaskets is unreasonable. Like others said, second opinion on diagnosis and price to protect yourself.

You're both done. You want to argue, take it to PM.

Oh no a warning shiver me timbers!

Yeah the head gaskets are just one of those things that blows ( on a boxer) like the lower response get a 2nd opinion and if it comes to replacing them take the lower knowledgeable bid and good luck sorry that you bought into a bad situation this doesnt reflect the entire Subaru Brand.....well mostly

You're both done. You want to argue, take it to PM.

Will do;)

Sorry for the late update.

I am a Subaru customer for life. They carried out the gasket and pistons change under warranty even though my car was out of it since long. (Maybe because of the low mileage). Very very pleased with the company response.

However, bad luck still continues to chase me. A 1000kms since the engine rebuild, this happened

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108694