Snow and chains

I'll probably do some driving up to the Sierras this season. In California, they sometimes require vehicles to chain up when it is snowing and the roads are bad. On my Honda Pilot, CHP have let me go through without chains because it's an all-wheel drive and has snow tires (all-season tires). Would I be able to go through without chains because my Subaru is an all-wheel drive? What about the RE92 tires that we have, are they considered all-season tires? If I have to chain up, I'm assuming that the chains would go in the rear because of the 45/55 power distribution. Am I correct?

Please share your experience.

-DC!

I don’t live in CA but this is a good reference.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1360&highlight=chp

DC

Yes, the RE- 92As are all season M+S rated, but in general as a tire they are pretty bad. Had mine changed out pretty quick.

I wrote to SOA because they don't recommend chains on the '05s, but there are chain required areas where I live.

This was they're official response:

Thank you for your inquiry.

You cannot use standard tire chains on your vehicle because of the lack of

clearance in the wheel wells. I always recommend that owners contact the State

Police to discuss the mandatory use of tire chains. The State Police enforce

tire chain usage and should be able to provide some guidelines for their

required use.

If you use the tire chains detailed below, you would need to install them on the

front wheels only. As also detailed below, we do not endorse this product, but

have not heard any complaints from owners who have used them.

We have been made aware of a tire chain (traction device) company's claim that

its devices are suitable for the Subaru Outback and Subaru GT models. The

company is:

Security Chain Company (SCC)

A Division of Burns Brothers, Inc.

Portland, OR

The company's Internet address is: scc-chain.com. This Internet site gives local

retail sources for the products. The model recommended by SCC for Subaru is SHUR

GRIP Z. There are different sizes based on tire size.

SUBARU OF AMERICA cannot endorse these or any other traction devices. However,

we can inform any owners who request information on traction devices of this

company's claim that its products are available and suitable for Subaru

vehicles. Customers must take the initiative and responsibility for securing the

products and satisfying themselves that it is safe to use them on their

vehicles.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us, and I hope that this information is

helpful in your decision-making.

Best wishes!

As you can see, they recommend mounting the chains on the front wheels, and stop short of endorsing these Shur Grip-Z chains. Although I am planning on buying a set just in case I ever need to show the highway patrol or really get stuck.

good luck. hope this helps.

tom

I agree with mjpulliam. I used to live at Tahoe and in Reno and have driven over Donner Summit a bazillion times and have never been stopped in a 4wd or AWD vehicle. I did get stopped in my Audi once while driving through the chain check but probably only because I had a badgeless grill. The guy came to the window and I said "all wheel drive" and promptly got the wave thru.

I once had the pleasure of driving over the summit (Donner) going east to west at about 5 am with a completely snow covered road. Being that the hwy. is 4 lanes wide and nobody else was on the road I was able to rally it up quite a bit in the Audi. Sideways at 70 (on purpose) is pretty fun! Kids don't try this at home.

I'll probably do some driving up to the Sierras this season. In California, they sometimes require vehicles to chain up when it is snowing and the roads are bad. On my Honda Pilot, CHP have let me go through without chains because it's an all-wheel drive and has snow tires (all-season tires). Would I be able to go through without chains because my Subaru is an all-wheel drive? What about the RE92 tires that we have, are they considered all-season tires? If I have to chain up, I'm assuming that the chains would go in the rear because of the 45/55 power distribution. Am I correct?

 

Please share your experience.

 

-DC!

I would not bother carrying chains as long as you are confident driving on snow covered roads. As a general rule here in the Tahoe/Sierra Nevada area the road will be closed before you will need chains. The RE92's will be okay as long as they are new or near new, once half worn I would not go near snow with them.

I dunno what type of crack SOA and this SCC company are smoking, but on any other 4wd or AWD car, you chain up all 4 wheels. If you just do the front wheels, that's asking for fishtailing on accl and deccl. I know that you can find newer type "chains" that barely add 1/4" of height to the tire. They are some type of plastic with a wire looped around it.

The other major problem here is that if you're in snow so deep you need chains, you're gonna bottom out way before the chains ever do anything for you.

I was just in Tahoe over the Thanksgiving weekend. Drove past lots of other makes of car sliding all over the place and going off into ditches. Drove past the chain-control checkpoints after the "you've got a Subaru, go right ahead!" wave from the CalTrans guys. I was lovin' it. If the weather was bad enough to where I'd have to put chains on (I bought the SCCs), I probably wouldn't be driving anyhow.

The stock tires gave me no problems, but when they wear out I'll get some winter-only snow tires.

I'm going to Yosemite next weekend and am worried about the weather conditions. I just purchased my Subaru so the tires are new. However, I have never driven in the snow before. Any advice or comments? Thanks in advance for your responses.

Just take it really easy and feel for the limits of what the car can do cornering and braking wise. If you're not going fast and being stupid you will be okay. You will be impressed with the abilities of your car. These cars are legandary in the snow, every second car I see in Tahoe during the winter is a Subie.

I'm going to Yosemite next weekend and am worried about the weather conditions. I just purchased my Subaru so the tires are new. However, I have never driven in the snow before. Any advice or comments? Thanks in advance for your responses.

Not sure if you have any icy or snowy "practice" areas around where you are now but, I always recommend hitting the snow covered parking lots after hours to get a feel for how the car handles, how well the tires work, how well it turns, stops, accelerates, and overall, how much feedback your getting from the system as a whole.

Echo Gumby's comment about taking it easy until you get a sense of how the car feels/operates in the winter conditions, especially if you don't get some practice time in first. Since this is your first time in snow/winter weather, I think you'll be pleased with how well the Subaru AWD operates. You just put it in gear and it goes.

Just remember that stopping distances are longer and if you start to slide, don't smash the brakes as that will just amplify the tendency to slide more. It is counter-intuitive, but in most cases, applying light go pedal will compensate/get you out of the slide. And make sure your tire pressures are set correctly. Too low or too high or uneven side to side can effect both the AWD and the car's handling.

Good luck and let us know how you're first fun run in the snow works out.

SBT

I'm going to Yosemite next weekend and am worried about the weather conditions. I just purchased my Subaru so the tires are new. However, I have never driven in the snow before. Any advice or comments? Thanks in advance for your responses.

Drive slowly. Just remember AWD doesn't help you STOP! Try mashing the brakes and locking them up so ABS kicks in in an open area- that will give you an idea of how long it will take to stop. I have watched 4WD cars go skidding down snow covered hills because they were overconfident.

Driving in snow can be very fun in a Subie- but they're not invincible.

Have fun!

tom

Good luck and let us know how you're first fun run in the snow works out.

 

SBT

Please and include some pics form Yosemite. The Sierra's have already had a bunch of snow with lots more to come in the next week or two!

I dunno what type of crack SOA and this SCC company are smoking, but on any other 4wd or AWD car, you chain up all 4 wheels. If you just do the front wheels, that's asking for fishtailing on accl and deccl. I know that you can find newer type "chains" that barely add 1/4" of height to the tire. They are some type of plastic with a wire looped around it.

 

The other major problem here is that if you're in snow so deep you need chains, you're gonna bottom out way before the chains ever do anything for you.

Yes, for 4WD vehicles it is better to chain up all 4 wheels. But like you said, I doubt you'll ever hit snow deep enough to truly need chains without 'bottoming out'. Ice might be an issue where you could use chains though.

If you only have one set of chains, chaining up the front wheels would be better than the rears (on a Subie). I doubt you'll go fishtailing all over the road if you're careful. (It'd be like driving a front wheel drive car in the snow- should do fine)

There are areas that make you carry chains even if you don't use them- the local highway patrol will check and may not let you pass.

I doubt I'll ever need to actually use them, though.

tom

I'll probably do some driving up to the Sierras this season. In California, they sometimes require vehicles to chain up when it is snowing and the roads are bad. On my Honda Pilot, CHP have let me go through without chains because it's an all-wheel drive and has snow tires (all-season tires). Would I be able to go through without chains because my Subaru is an all-wheel drive? What about the RE92 tires that we have, are they considered all-season tires? If I have to chain up, I'm assuming that the chains would go in the rear because of the 45/55 power distribution. Am I correct?

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/vctires.htm

27460, "and provided that tire traction devices for at least one set of drive wheels are carried in or upon the vehicle"

In my several years of ownership of an Xterra, I was never asked if I had chains in my possession. I did have a set, and eventually sold the truck with the chains having never been taken from the box.

We did take a several hour detour last night on the way home from Death Valley due to Caltrans's recorded message not specifying the actual chain requirements (and me thinking that they might actually require _all_ vehicles to have chains in the more rural areas). The telephone recorded message said chains were required on 395 over one of the summits, and not having them for the Outback we went south instead and up I-5. Getting home though and checking the web

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi

the actual requirement was:

"CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS ").

Thanks for the replies guys! I've only driven on the snow a couple of times on the Honda Pilot. I loved passing by other cars that are putting on snow chains or shelling out $20 to have someone put them on...especially two-wheel drive SUV's.

I can't wait until I get my Legacy up there.

I had a set of those SCC Z-chains for my old Saturn. Used them a few times when chains were required getting up to some of the ski resorts in Washington State. The chains were a complete and total bitch to put on the tires. Took myself and two friends about 40 minutes to put on the chains because they fit so tightly around the tires. Still, I'm glad I had them.

I headed up to Crystal Mountain ski area one weekend a number of years ago. There is a 5 mile winding mountain road that connects the main road to the ski area. This particular weekend, despite the cold weather, the patrol people decided to allow everyone up the mountain road without chains, however chains were recommended. I didn't want to take a chance so pulled over and put the chains on. Well, the powers that be at Crystal Mountain or WA-DOT decided not to gravel and salt the mountain road during the day and the entire length of the road froze into once gigantic sheet of ice by the time everyone wanted to go home. Those without chains did not fare well. Many, many accidents. My friends and I were stuck on the road for 3 hours waiting to get off the mountain. Every once in a while we would get out, slide around on the road, throw snowballs, and meet neighbors in adjacent cars. I got to watch the gas gauge go down as we waited in the car. Funny how it became a communal event as everyone in their cars were sharing food and drinks with everyone else.

I'm going to Yosemite next weekend and am worried about the weather conditions. I just purchased my Subaru so the tires are new. However, I have never driven in the snow before. Any advice or comments? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I'll be in Yosemite 2nd week of Feb. 2010. Can't wait. Thanks all for the tips on the chains and yes, the CHP require you carry them, not necessarily use them...on AWD. Yosemite now approves of cable chains in the valley.

This being my first AWD auto experience. While in Mammoth last year with about 4-6" of snow, tried to skid the Outback out (in a wide area with no traffic) and could not do it. Nothing like the 'Donner Pass Slider'. The car tracked everywhere I pointed it. Now, for those of you not used to snow, beware of ice under the snow, if there is warm weather, melting snow with freezing after - these conditions call for very safe driving (read slow). Best to go slow and safe than be pulled from a ditch for trying to hard.

I dunno what type of crack SOA and this SCC company are smoking, but on any other 4wd or AWD car, you chain up all 4 wheels. If you just do the front wheels, that's asking for fishtailing on accl and deccl. I know that you can find newer type "chains" that barely add 1/4" of height to the tire. They are some type of plastic with a wire looped around it.

 

The other major problem here is that if you're in snow so deep you need chains, you're gonna bottom out way before the chains ever do anything for you.

Chains don't fit on the rear. I've tried. The front wheels are made to handle the chains.

Just came back from Tahoe during the predicted blizzard in a Jeep Liberty. The radio reports said that vehicles needed chains unless they had AWD/4WD with SNOW tires. The tires on the Jeep were general all season M+S, but the guy at the checkpoint just saw the Jeep and let us through. I don't know if that's a regular occurrence, but he didn't even glance at the tires. For all he knew, we could've been riding on slick summer tires.

The CALTRAN website says there are 3 levels of chain "exceptions": AWD/4WD with any tires, AWD/4WD with SNOW tires, and EVERYONE put on chains. Seemed like the first two categories were just merged into one.

Just came back from Tahoe during the predicted blizzard in a Jeep Liberty. The radio reports said that vehicles needed chains unless they had AWD/4WD with SNOW tires. The tires on the Jeep were general all season M+S, but the guy at the checkpoint just saw the Jeep and let us through. I don't know if that's a regular occurrence, but he didn't even glance at the tires. For all he knew, we could've been riding on slick summer tires.

The CALTRAN website says there are 3 levels of chain "exceptions": AWD/4WD with any tires, AWD/4WD with SNOW tires, and EVERYONE put on chains. Seemed like the first two categories were just merged into one.

I think the CHP knows which cars come with 4WD/AWD standard and take that into consideration when figuring out who to allow through and who to move aside to put on chains.

BTW...

<-- My pic = no chains.

Just came back from Tahoe during the predicted blizzard in a Jeep Liberty. The radio reports said that vehicles needed chains unless they had AWD/4WD with SNOW tires. The tires on the Jeep were general all season M+S, but the guy at the checkpoint just saw the Jeep and let us through. I don't know if that's a regular occurrence, but he didn't even glance at the tires. For all he knew, we could've been riding on slick summer tires.

The CALTRAN website says there are 3 levels of chain "exceptions": AWD/4WD with any tires, AWD/4WD with SNOW tires, and EVERYONE put on chains. Seemed like the first two categories were just merged into one.

Holy thread from the dead!

BTW, "4WD w/ snow tires" just means M + S rated tires, not actual winter tires. Also, I've been driving in the Sierras for over 20 years and have never seen it when AWD/4WD have required chains and that includes near whiteout conditions literally minutes before they closed I-80 behind me. The CHP will shut down the highway before requiring AWD/4WD vehicles to chain up.