Shell Rotella T6 5W-40... God Send?

Hey everyone,

 

I have been doing a lot of reading about oils (namely in preparation for racing next season and extending engine life) and came across some more information about this famous diesel oil: Shell Rotella T6 5W-40. Diesel oil has been used by many a racer in their engines, namely because of the high Zinc and Phosphor contents, which are key elements in prolonging engine life.

 

I have read about this oil being used on multiple regular petrol engines. I see praise for this oil on BMW forums, Muscle Car Forums, Evo forums, Porsche Forums, Lotus Forums, etc. Nothing but praise for this oil. And using stock OEM filters too! I have also seen people using Puralator Gold filters as well, but primarily I have read people using stock OEM filters for their oil.

 

Here are some UOAs for your viewing pleasure:

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2078804&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

and

 

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/199888-uoa-7626-miles-rotella-t6.html

 

These are just two links, but Google this info and you will find plenty more links praising this $16/1 gallon jug of oil. I too, have purchased my gallon and waiting for my car to hit 100 miles before switching to this stuff.

 

Anyways, I figured I share this information with you all and hopefully get some stories about people using this oil as well. The only caveats I have seen to this miracle oil is that some people, with cars that have massive blow-by and burn lots of oil in their cars, will find that their catalytic converters die quickly, namely because of the high phosphorus and zinc counts murdering it. But if your engine is properly maintained, you are looking at years of fun and a better piece of mind.

 

Enjoy!

Subscribed.

I use it... that should be reason enough. im not going to dig up all the threads I read over in the time when i decided to switch to it. but its cheap and better than Mobil 1's SHIT oil. As so its good enough for me!

Here is some more information about UOAs (Used Oil Analysis), courtesy of Blackstone Labs:

 

What is a TBN, and who uses it? In short, a TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive left in a sample of oil. The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range.

 

By comparing the TBN of a used oil to the TBN of the same oil in virgin condition, the user can determine how much reserve additive the oil has left to neutralize acids. The lower the TBN reading, the less active additive the oil has left.

 

Note: You do not need to send in a virgin sample for us to run a TBN on your oil. Some people like to send a virgin sample anyway, to find out exactly where the TBN of a specific oil starts out. The cost of a virgin oil sample plus TBN is the same as a regular oil sample plus TBN.

 

An oil's function is to lubricate, clean, and cool the engine. Additives are added to the oil to enhance those functions. The TBN will start out reading in the 6.0 to 14.0 range (depending on whether the oil is for gas or diesel engines). When you first start using the oil the TBN tends to drop sharply. Then it levels out and drops more slowly after that. A low TBN test result, meaning very little additive is left, is down around 1.0 or lower.

 

Scientifically speaking, the TBN is one of two "neutralization number" tests run on oils. The TAN (total acid number), which is used for hydraulic oils, is the other. The TBN measures the total basedity of an engine oil; that is, how much base (as in, a base vs. an acid) additive is in the oil to offset the deleterious effects of acids coming into the oil from combustion and other sources.

 

However, the TBN is not the only factor to consider when determining how long an oil can be used. If wear accumulations and insolubles in the oil build up and become abrasive, we would recommend changing out the oil, no matter how high the TBN reading.

 

Case Scenarios

 

Case #1

Joe Owner has a new engine and wants to determine how long he can keep a fill of oil in place. He sends in a sample of his virgin oil (with no miles on it) and a sample of his used oil (with 3,000 miles on it) for an analysis and a TBN test.

 

The virgin oil has a TBN reading of 12.0. His used oil has a TBN reading of 9.5, and his wear levels are fine. Joe decides to leave his current fill of oil in place, and resamples in another 3,000 miles. This time, the TBN reads 6.0, still an average amount, but his wear accumulations and insolubles have built up to a level that causes the oil to become abrasive. We recommend that Joe change out this oil.

 

Case #2

Jill Owner has a new engine and wants to determine how long she can keep a fill of oil in place. She sends in a sample of her virgin oil (with no miles on it) and a sample of her used oil (with 3,000 miles on it) for analysis and a TBN test.

 

The virgin oil has a TBN reading of 7.0. Her used oil has a TBN of reading of 5.0, and her wear levels are fine. Jill decides to leave this fill of oil in place, and she resamples in another 3,000 miles. This time, the TBN reads 4.5, and her wear levels are still low. Jill decides to leave her oil in place a bit longer, and she resamples in another 1,500 miles. This time, the TBN reads 2.5, and although wear accumulations are still normal, we recommend she change out the oil.

 

Do you need the TBN test in your maintenance routine? Only you can answer that question. We offer a TBN test on any gasoline or diesel oil sample for an additional $10

*edited to keep Harry's Blackstone info closer together/more concise.

Oil Viscosity (courtesy of Blackstone Labs):

 

Most of us have only a vague understanding of viscosity. We tend to choose an oil with a viscosity that we believe is correct for our particular engine, but would another viscosity improve or reduce the life of the engine? Can we freely pick and choose a viscosity outside a manufacturer's recommendations?

 

Technically, viscosity is defined as resistance to flow. Commonly though, we think of it as an oil's thickness. To be more specific, it is the thickness of an oil at a given temperature. The plot thickens (ha!).

 

The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either SUS or cSt. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil. At Blackstone, we report the viscosity at 210F SUS, which is about the operating temperature of your engine when it's warmed up and running.

 

An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.

 

Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade

Engine oil can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oil was straight weight. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi-viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.

 

The difference between multi-grade and straight-weight oil is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined with VI additives that leave it reading as an SAE 5W viscosity when cold, yet an SAE 30W when hot (210F). The advantage to the multi-weight is that when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil (with its thickness of an SAE 5W when cold), allows the engine to spin over more easily.

 

The most common diesel use oil is 15W/40. It is an SAE 15W oil with a VI additive that leaves it the thickness of an SAE 40 weight at operating temperature. What makes an oil a diesel-use oil (rather than automotive-use) is the level of additives used. Diesels require heavier levels of dispersant and anti-wear additives. These heavier additive levels are objectionable for automotive engines since they may interfere with the emission controls mandated by the EPA.

 

Which Viscosity to Use?

Engine owners often stray from manufacturers' recommendations regarding viscosity of oils. The engine builders dyno-test their engines using a specific viscosity oil, so when you use the viscosity they recommend, you are working with a known result. Going to another viscosity is an experiment, but it's usually a harmless one. For the sake of efficiency you want to run the lightest grade oil in your engine possible, within limits. We are seeing that trend for newer engines, for which the recommended grade is getting progressively lighter. The common 10W/30 has become a 5W/30, and some manufacturers even recommend 5W/20 oil. On the other hand, we can't see (in oil analysis) where it hurts anything to run heavier 10W/30s or even 10W/40s in modern automotive engines. The heavier oils provide more bearing film, and that's important at the lower end. If your oil is too light, the bearing metals can increase. If the oil is too heavy, the upper end metals can increase. The trick is to find the right viscosity for your particular engine, which is why we suggest following the manufacturer's recommendation.

 

Changes in Viscosity

Adding anything foreign to your oil can change its viscosity. Some types of after-market oil additives cause a quite high viscosity at operating temperature. While an additive might improve bearing wear, it can often cause poorer upper-end wear. We don't recommend any type of after-market additives.

 

Other changes to viscosity can result from contamination of the oil. Moisture and fuel can both cause the viscosity to increase or decrease, depending on the contaminant and how long it has been present in the oil. Antifreeze often increases an oil's viscosity. Exposure to excessive heat (leaving the oil in use too long, engine overheating) can also increase viscosity. When your oil's viscosity comes back as either lower or higher than the "Should Be" range, something is causing it. If the high/low viscosity is hurting wear, the key is to find out what it is and repair your engine or adjust your driving habits accordingly, to correct the viscosity and optimize your engine's efficiency.

 

If you decide to use a different viscosity oil than what the manufacturer recommends, you might want to use oil analysis while you are experimenting. Your wear data doesn't lie. People selling oils and additives may be sincere, but they don't have to live with the results. They simply smile a lot on the way to the bank.

Insolubles (courtesy of Blackstone Labs):

 

The insolubles test measures the total insoluble materials in an oil sample, that is, all solid or liquid materials that are not soluble (won't mix) in oil. Virgin oil shouldn't have any insoluble materials in it. When it occasionally does, the most we normally find is a trace level. The insolubles in virgin oil are from the normal oxidation process of the oil, which leaves free carbon in suspension when oxygen forms with hydrogen (oil is a hydrocarbon).

 

The insolubles test is a centrifuge method. A measured volume of oil is mixed with a heated solvent, agitated, and spun at high speed. Insoluble materials collect at the bottom of a tapered glass tube and can then be quantified. The insolubles test is a fair measure of how fast the oil is oxidizing and receiving contaminants, and how effectively the system's oil filtration is functioning.

 

Industrial oil normally contains very low insolubles due to the few and relatively mild heat cycles the oil experiences (heat cycles accelerate the oil's normal tendency to oxidize). Further, oil filtration on industrial machines may filter particles as small as 2 to 10 microns, keeping the oil pristine for a very long time, often years.

 

Automotive and aircraft oils however, suffer the most difficult environmental problems of all types of oils we analyze. They regularly receive blow-by products from the combustion process. They suffer extreme heat cycles. Any contaminant in the oil will accelerate the oxidation process, causing insoluble materials to increase. Engine oil needs to be changed regularly due to all of the above.

 

Excessive insolubles can form in an engine oil if the oil: is running hot, is receiving more than a normal amount of contamination, is suffering more (or more severe) heat cycles than is normal, is being run longer than a typical use cycle, or, on the other side of the coin, if oil filtration is marginal or relatively ineffective.

 

If we found no contamination in your oil and your change intervals are normal, we often mention a problem at oil filtration as a possible cause of higher insolubles. Insolubles may be forming because your oil change interval is too long for the condition of the engine. Your oil filter may be inferior. It is possible the oil filter bypass valve has relived if the filter is becoming restricted. The filter system bypass may also open upon unusually cold starts when the oil is too thick to pass through the filter media. Once the bypass relieves, the filter is effectively out of the system.

 

The insolubles test is a fair measure of several possible problems in your engine. One high reading needn't be a cause of concern. Several high readings in a row merit investigation of what the problem may be.

And since Subaru engines suffer Blow-by and the issues associated with it (engines going boom, ringland failures, etc):

 

Technically, the flash point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid will generate sufficient vapor to flash (ignite) when exposed to a source of ignition, or fire. In other words, at what temperature do the vapors coming off your oil catch fire? For most gasoline oil samples, it's around 380F. For most diesel samples, it's around 410F.

 

When the flash point reads lower than the "should be" value, it shows a contaminant in the oil. Most often that contaminant is fuel, though other things can affect the flash point too, such as solvents (like engine cleaner additives) or water.

 

The Post Office is particularly concerned with the flash point of your sample because they want to make sure that your oil isn't going to explode or catch fire while it's going through the mail. We have reassured them that's not going to happen, though sometimes they still can be grumpy about taking oil samples. You might be better off sending it UPS or FedEx.

And the ever super sensitive topic: "Which Oil To Use?" (courtesy of Blackstone Labs):

 

Managers and analysts at Blackstone Laboratories often do presentations regarding the fascinating world of oil analysis. Regardless of the immediate topic, the most common question we hear is, "What type of oil should I use in my car?"

 

Because we're an independent laboratory, we don't recommend any specific oil brands. We always recommend using an oil grade recommended for your engine by the manufacturer and a brand that fits your budget.

 

You can go into any mass retailer (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Meijer, etc.) that sells engine oil and buy a 5W/30 (or any other preferred grade) that will perform well in your engine. One of the best-kept secrets of the oil industry is that these store brands are actually the same, quality oils that are produced by the major oil companies. The only difference between these products and the major company brands is the name on the container and about 50¢ a quart.

 

But wait! We do actually have a preference when it comes to buying oils for our personal use engines. That preference however, has little to do with brand names.

 

We analyze oil from our personal use engines (right down to our lawn mowers) religiously. We tend to choose oil that does not contain additives such as sodium and copper. The copper additive masks brass or bronze wear from the engine. Sodium additives can mask anti-freeze contamination.

 

There are many types of after-market additives you can buy. Some contain unusual compounds that can make it difficult for our analysts to determine if your engine has a mechanical problem. One additive we know of contains a lead-copper compound. But lead and copper are metals common to bearing inserts. If you're using an additive with lead and/or copper in it, it is difficult to tell whether those elements are coming from the additive or a problem with the bearings.

 

Another type of additive we often run across contains silicone (which is read as silicon by our spectrometer). Silicon is often found in the oil when a fault exists at air filtration. If we do not know there is an additive in use, it can be difficult to diagnose true problems that may be producing high silicon.

 

If you are interested in having your engine oil analyzed by a quality lab, you will receive a better analysis if you avoid oil and after-market additives that use elements we need to see clearly to do a thorough analysis. If you feel you truly want to use an after-market additive, please let us know about it on the information slip provided with the sample.

Insert redacted post:

 

I have been contemplating the switch over to rotella, as I have also read that it gets nothing but praise from the car enthusiast community. Thus far used Pennzoil Platinum (switched to the Ultimate when it came out).

 

On the filter side I have only used to use the Subaru black (Roki) filters, until the were switched out for the blue Honeywell version. Since that point I have switched to the Napa Gold filters, but I will be switching to the 09'-10' Mazda Rx8 filter documented in this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/mazda-rx-8-tokyo-roki-oil-filter-2-5gt-147113.html?highlight=mazda+rx8+filter

Subscribed.

 

 

Not to get off-topic, but did you already pick up your STi? Ed called Friday and told me my WRX was in (and mentioned yours as well) but I have yet to go see it. I had plans to go out of town this past weekend and this week is slammed at work. I might be down to get it Friday.

 

Edit:

 

Just saw your post on NASIOC. Mine is the white one (though it is a base WRX and not an STi), and the blue one is Louie's, I think.

I didn't pick up my STI yet since I am waiting for the clear bar to be installed on it. I told Ed I am not driving that sucker off the lot until it has the bra on there.

 

I am SWAMPED with work at the moment (doing hardware refresh installs) and keep juggling back and forth from here to the servers to keep some sanity. One of our IT people just quit on Friday as well. So now everything is on my shoulder. I hope to pick up the car this weekend or next week. But as of right now, I am swamped.

 

By the way, I saw Lisa's car there as well. What color was yours? WRB?

 

Let's please keep this on topic. I wanted to discuss the topic of why diesel oil is better than regular petrol oil. I threw in some UOAs to help keep the topic interesting. I've rarely come across a type of oil that was largely praised by MULTIPLE car forums. I am hoping to hear some feedback from people, good or bad. So far, I have only read praises. The bads were toasted catalytic converters since their engine was burning too much oil.

 

06Limited, I read that thread before, and I have to join rao in laughing my sides off. One thing to keep in mind is that the Subaru engineers went with our OEM oil filter because they want us to grenade our engines. They did it purposely.

random interjection, but what are your thoughts on the effect of the zinc additives on the cats? is it a significant factor with the rotella?

really you should not be(idealy) burning or blowing by enough oil to make this matter too much.

 

But if you are worried you shuold just go CATLESS!

random interjection, but what are your thoughts on the effect of the zinc additives on the cats? is it a significant factor with the rotella?

 

Josh said it perfectly. You'd literally have to be burning a bathtub full of this oil to demolish your catalytic converter. However, since aftermarket catalytic converters use much better materials, this is a non-issue, including high flow catalytic converters.

 

With the zinc additives, can't say much. If you are burning a lot of oil (white bluish smoke), then yes, your catalytic converter is going to either clog up or go poof. More than likely it will clog up. And it is a significant factor with any oil you use, more so with diesel engine oils.

 

And this is for rao: http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=76&osCsid=q3nvblm07tkomd8ingp1fnd255

 

What do you think about the tranny oil cocktail? Myth or fact? I prefer the Subaru Super-S oil any day. Not big on cocktails at all.

use it in my truck - subscribed.

use it in my truck - subscribed.

 

Is your truck regular petrol or diesel?

Vince: Yo Dominic. There’s no engines.

Dominic: What are they planning on racing with? Hopes and dreams?

 

His trucks runs on hopes and dreams!

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/quiz/1497_1210047089675_300_200.jpg

What do you think about the tranny oil cocktail? Myth or fact? I prefer the Subaru Super-S oil any day. Not big on cocktails at all.

The cocktail is crap. It shears far too quickly and degrades in quality quite fast. Stick with the Extra-S or if you want to experiment, try the offerings from Amsoil.

I am runnign all motul from DPS. Happy with it so far.

 

Rear diff is all BMW M series Castrol fluid, dont ask!

Is your truck regular petrol or diesel?

 

Diesel - twin turbo Cummins 5.9 (~750 hp, 1300 lb-ft)

 

Vince: Yo Dominic. There’s no engines.

Dominic: What are they planning on racing with? Hopes and dreams?

 

His trucks runs on hopes and dreams!

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/quiz/1497_1210047089675_300_200.jpg

 

HAHAHA...you crack me up.

 

Don't forget NAWS!!!!

I brought da Funnays!

^oil is no laughing matter.

^oil is no laughing matter.

 

It's just Josh. His mental ken lapses when serious discussion is around.

 

I figured the cocktail was crap. There is no way that mixing that many different oil types and properties is good for your transmission.

 

But anyways, how many more people have started using or have been using the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 oil in their engines? I am definitely going to use it. Gallon is ready for my car's first oil change. I was thinking about getting that Puralator PureOne Gold filter, but I see no reason for it, seeing as how TBNs from the UOAs are so low.

 

Also, from reading other car forums, especially the muscle car forums, I saw that people are also mixing in regular synthetic oil with their Rotella T6 5W-40. Any reason why people would do this?