SEMA: Progress Sport Suspension

[url="http://www.semaphotos.com/default.a4d?tpl=imageSingle&source=&model=racing&ImageID=SEM2004110244028"]http://www.semaphotos.com/default.a4d?tpl=imageSingle&source=&model=racing&ImageID=SEM2004110244028[/url] "Progress sport springs are 1.3" lower and feature higher spring rates (20%). Front and rear anti-roll bars minimize understeer and body roll for optimized handling."

sorry to say, if that is what Progress is claiming for the springs, I wouldnt put that on my car even if it was given to me.. the numbers wont work out right at the end.. it's not going to last long for city streets driving... BUT!!! what about their sway bars and endlinks? Any word on those?? Keefe

Those are similar numbers to Teins. ???hmmm

[quote name='Xenonk']sorry to say, if that is what Progress is claiming for the springs, I wouldnt put that on my car even if it was given to me.. the numbers wont work out right at the end.. it's not going to last long for city streets driving... BUT!!! what about their sway bars and endlinks? Any word on those?? Keefe[/QUOTE] What he said. Kevin

[quote name='BoxerGT2.5']Those are similar numbers to Teins. ???hmmm[/QUOTE] Yea, and I wouldn't put S-Tech springs on my car either ;)

I saw them on the SEMA page. Why dont you guys think they wont work right ? Too big a drop? too harsh? Help me understand your opinions. I dont know if im ready to go this route yet but its a mod im liable to do in the future. Im not into hard core and live in the northeast (potholes etc) What would be a nice upgrade AND give a civil ride. Thanks

[quote name='franklin']I saw them on the SEMA page. Why dont you guys think they wont work right ? Too big a drop? too harsh? Help me understand your opinions. I dont know if im ready to go this route yet but its a mod im liable to do in the future. Im not into hard core and live in the northeast (potholes etc) What would be a nice upgrade AND give a civil ride. Thanks[/QUOTE] 1.3 inches means that your wheels are almost tucked. Expect stock struts to last, if you live in a rough area...well, it depends on how much you drive, but...not very long. I'm betting the ride will be like crap, as well. The problem with most lowering springs (STi being a notable exception) is that they think about cosmetics AND performance. So both parameters are compromised. STi, on the other hand, looks at the smallest amount the stock struts can be lowered, then designs a spring to augment those struts, and improve the car. What lowering is derived is simply a consequence of the improved performance. It's why STi-equipped cars never sit all that low, but handle great. Kevin

There is usually a lowering limit that a shock can handle. The seals and valves arent used to being compressed like that all the time (especially dropping it like so). Another dead giveaway about how it's going to wear out the shock is that it's only 20% stiffer.. and to me, I dont think it's enough to hold up the car's already shorten suspension travel. The stock springs are progressive-wound, not linear.. so that means that Progress springs (if they did their homework) would also make it progressive-wound as well to keep the shock from oscillating abruptly after a bump. Technically, there are two ways to lower a car, but only one good way that it should be done. Typical lowering springs is not the best for the suspension travel design for a car, but to compensate, the shocks and springs can be stiffen a lot more for the reduced travel. The other way is actually retaining the suspension travel buy lowering the whole shock itself from the hub assembly. That way, you are not messing with suspension travel or the spring perch height. The DOWN side to this is that if you go too low, the suspension might travel far enough that it can hit the fender liner of your car. There is a happy medium in there somewhere though, so dont feel discouraged about lowering cars. BMWs and Porcshes have one of the best suspension set ups that come straight out of the factory. They take the time to design their cars with the short suspension travel and tune the shocks and springs from that point so that they can lower the car as much as they want without needing to worry about the wheels rubbing up on the fenders. There is such thing as a smooth ride with a slammed look, but you gotta know how to shorten the suspension travel correctly, adjust your ride height correctly, and have a valved set of shocks that can handle the two mentioned attributes. Keefe

Long story short. Buy springs AND struts that were made for the car you driveing. Don't mix and match.

[quote name='B4_Maniac']Long story short. Buy springs AND struts that were made for the car you driveing. Don't mix and match.[/QUOTE] I had Prodrive springs on my WRX and I really enjoyed them. They were only about an 1" drop, but the spring rate was considerably higher. Not kidney jarring higher, but you could feel it. That was a decent suspension setup (along with other things, sways, etc) and if I would have kept the car longer I more than likely would have gone with some Konis. Now, it's possible to get springs and be okay, but just be wary of the manufacturer I say. Prodrive/STi/Cobb would be trusted names to have done their homework in the spring department and would have matched their springs to the stock struts (if they advertise them that way).

[font=Arial][size=2]The Legacy sway bars should be available ~ 6 weeks.[/size][/font] [font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font] [font=Arial][size=2]The Progress Group[/size][/font]

If I do upgrade my springs/struts, it will be Prodrive or SPT/STi gear. They always seem to do their homework and things work out. From everyone I talk to, they seem to be the most popular solutions that just work. I hope Subaru has an SPT or STi spring/strut kit out for the Legacy in the next year or so, it will definitely be my upgrade of choice, about the only thing to take me away from a SpecB take-off set.

thanks for the detailed opinions/advice. Now I understand the issues around better. Its one thing to hear buy this dont by that-- but I feel much better when I get enough infomed detail about something like this to spend my money and time wisely. Consensus sounds like dont go for too much drop (with springs alone) and get a spring /strut/ shock package that are matched. Ideaily from a outfit that features Subaru. I would be really tourqued if i spent a lot of money and ruined my ride, handling and struts.

I would like a nice 20-25mm drop in the front and 15-20mm in the rear. Havent found crap. :)

[quote name='Xenonk'] The stock springs are progressive-wound, not linear.. so that means that Progress springs (if they did their homework) would also make it progressive-wound as well to keep the shock from oscillating abruptly after a bump.[/QUOTE] Keefe - I am thoroughly confused now. Are you saying that the stock GT springs are progressive? What about the pink STi springs? Progressive or constant rate? Paul @ AVO says they are constant rate, in another thread about Swift springs vs. STi Pinks: [quote name='APEXJAPAN'] These are generalizations, for the experience is with the JDM Legacy with firmer damper settings. 1) Stiffer - STi, actually, in terms of initial bump feedback. These two springs are different, in that the Swift springs are variable rate while the STi springs are constant rate. Variable rate springs have a "soft" initial section for absorbing small bumps, but after they are compressed past that section, they start firming up quickly. Very quickly, in the case of the Swift springs. STi springs are constant rate - no softer section, but the same strength throughout most of the compression. So the "firm" is there always, including for the initial bumps. My experience is that when compressed into the firm area of the Swift springs, they are a touch more firm and sport-oriented than the STi springs, which cannot be too hard because they are constant rate. 2) Neither spring setup is touchy or unpredictable. In fact, the Swift springs were very, very predictable and forgiving at the hill climb time attack I participated in a weekend ago. 3) Whichever one has better tyres will spank the other at the track. Or the better driver. Otherwise you won't likely see more than a few tenths of a second difference around the track between the two - the actual modification in terms of track racing is small. Most of the differences between the two boil down to variable rate vs. constant rate, and the difference in lowering. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [/QUOTE] So, my point is that there is conflicting info here. You said that if Progress 'did their homework', they would be progressive rate springs as well. STi springs are constant rate and they certainly have done their homework, correct? :confused: Can someone clarify please?

Well, it also depends on which Swift Springs Paul is referring to (which Swift springs are available in linear rates as well for coilover applications). Usually (unless I am mistaken) it's typical for a progressive spring to be wound tighter together at the ends (making it cost effective way to produce a progressive spring). From what I know, stock springs and STi springs are progressive (it doesnt take much to squeeze the spring and watch the center coils start to move or bind first before the ends do). Yeah, STi listed the springs as 4kg front, and 6kg rear, but that's the effective spring rate, where the spring is native to feel linear (now that's research for ya). Try compressing an STi spring to full bind, and you'll notice it gets harder and harder to compress the spring. It is possible that the Swift Springs Paul refers would be the progressive spring type. Who knows. You'll have to ask him on that one. My Zeal coilovers have linear spring rates (the coils are evenly spaced and the entire spring compresses evenly, I.E. the spacing from coil to coil are the same distance from one and other). For all intents and purposes, a progressive wound spring will help in the oscillation department, aiding the bounds/rebounds of a more luxury-based shock (like a stock shock for example). I should dig up a dyno chart and graph for you guys on springs and shocks.. you'll see what I mean when it comes down to how the 4 basic setups you can have for a coilover setup. Here are the combinations you'll likely to bump into for coilovers: 1) Progressive springs & Linear shocks 2) Progressive springs & Progressive shocks 3) Linear springs & Linear shocks 4) Linear springs & Progressive shocks #1 is listed for most street/out of the factory kind of car... the valves in the shocks are not adjustable, so it makes it pretty much a linear shock in a sense. The ride gets a lot smoother than a linear spring due to the spring rate change during compression and rebound. Think of it as diving into a pool of water.. a linear spring rate is like the water, you dive in and eventually the water will slow you down to the point where you dont go down anymore whereas progressive is like diving into the pool with a parachute that gets bigger and bigger until you softly land into the water and then the water will aid you from hitting the bottom of the pool.. (I know, bad example, but I hope you get the idea). #2 is usually used for racing applications, normally off roading to provide the largest suspension travel while having the shocks be able to handle BIG AIR (see rally setups) #3 is an old school set up of constant spring rates with constant valving.. some race cars use this IF the pavement is super flat and have no potholes. Some cheaper car manufacturers will go with this route to be cheap and keep the car riding typical stock fashion where the stock spring and stock shock were ONLY designed to work together and only together. #4 is what most aftermarket coilovers are comprised. A linear spring defines the amount of suspension travel, and the shocks get adjusted to deal with the differences in terrain (semi rough roads, smooth tracks, or large elevation changes). It's not exactly the best set up for race use, but it's cost effective since you can always swap out the springs to a harder spring rate if needed.

giving this thread a nudge to the top not so much for springs 1.3 is too much but the more options for sway bars the better