Results from 68HTA EFI tune

**EDIT**

Tune updated, see post #45

 

Finished up a weekend install and got tuned this past Monday at EFI with some interesting (to me, at least) results.

 

First the setup - a fairly bare bones stage 3:

FP 68HTA

DW 740cc injectors

AVO 245lph fuel pump

SPT V2 cat back & COBB catted DP - both of the 2.5" reductions were removed and replaced with 3" by Jack @ EFI. Absolutely flawless work, he used SS welds and I actually have to look hard to see the seam.

TurboXS catless up

COBB SF intake

COBB XLE BOV/BPV

Grimmspeed EBCS

Racer X FMIC

 

While there seem to be a lot of people here going with the 68hta, for some reason it's still difficult to find a lot of graphs specific to the LGT and so most of my initial research and dyno comparisons were to STi's and later model WRX.

 

Well I was very surprised at what Chris was able to do with this turbo. Not necessarily in the numbers - which were about what I expected - but rather the curves, which we discussed what the possibilities could be beforehand. Admittedly I didn't realize until I went home and bounced it against some other graphs in their dyno database. You can see in the graph below the similarities to a basic TD06-20g and Polka Pickle setup, with respect to whp pulling all the way to redline.

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=2949

http://efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=350&rgb1=000000255&runid2=802&rgb2=204000000&runid3=718&rgb3=000153000

 

Granted these aren't apples to apples comparisons but I don't think they are too far off considering the size of my fmic core in relation to the Spearco and AMR tmic's. I am, however, pushing more boost than the 20g.

 

Thoughts? Or is this old news and I'm just late to the party?

Looks much like my 91crap gas tune from Infamous. Similar set up w/68HTA.

hmmm.. I saw your graph in the fmic install thread and yes the curves do look similar, but your wtq numbers seem awfully low for your setup - even for craptacular 91 octane.

 

I have to ask, what was the reasoning behind doing TGV deletes/spacers with a 68HTA?

My numbers are low because my clutch is slipping, lol.

 

I did TGV's because the manifold was already coming off. Figured if I was in it that far might as well.

 

You have no idea how bad the gas is here. Not just 91, but oxygenated and CA, NV, AZ specific.

 

Thats why I did e85 too. That graph (with a good clutch) is closer to 375+whp.

hmmm.. I saw your graph in the fmic install thread and yes the curves do look similar, but your wtq numbers seem awfully low for your setup - even for craptacular 91 octane.

 

I have to ask, what was the reasoning behind doing TGV deletes/spacers with a 68HTA?

Did you read in the post that his clutch starts to slip @ 4k?

Yeah in every gear but 1-2. Plus the clutch only has 17k on it and I have babied it the whole time.

 

MONSTA Infamous POWA!

 

Infamous says my 91crap tune makes the same power as most 93 tunes. Thats the headers and TGV's.

 

He thinks my e85 tune might be the fastest Legacy he has ever driven in.

 

Once I pick up my new clutch (from itsme, lol) I will log and repost airboy's. Then we will go to the track for timeslips.

Just reconfirms that the 68HTA is the turbo of choice

I would imagine the TGV deletes do well for sure, but is there much advantage to the spacers considering the manifold isnt aluminium like the STi/WRX? Was doing some research and found mixed reviews about the spacers, seemed that they were pointless for the LGT's that still use stock manifold because the manifold isnt prone to heatsoak as much as the STi/WRX ones. Or was it pretty much, while I'm down here, why the heck not?

ah ok gotcha, somehow I missed the fact that your clutch is slipping around 4k. That e85 tune sounds like a monster:eek: You guys might have crappy 91 out there but at least you have the option of running e85.

 

Anyway the original intent of my post wasn't really to discuss hard numbers, but rather that the curve seemed different to a lot of the 68HTA graphs I was used to seeing on similar STi setups, with a gradual rise to redline rather than a quick shot in the midrange with more taper up top. I suspect this has to do with how the tune was finessed, but I wasn't sure exactly how much control the tuner has over the powerband without having to bend to other factors such as airflow restrictions, etc. Looking at yours seems to confirm that this type of curve isn't all that out of the ordinary for our setups.

 

Really though I just wanted to put this up as reference for anyone looking into this setup. Like I said in the original post there's a lot of talk about people going this route with their Leggy but not too many seem to be posting graphs.

Subscribed.

 

FWIW the STIs were likely run in 4th gear, vs your 3rd gear run, which would help them a little bit in spool.

A couple more pieces of info after logging today. It's getting harder to find flat places to go WOT 'till redline:lol:

 

50-80: 3.15 sec.

60-80: 2.09 sec.

 

MAF voltage from the COBB intake - OAT 45°F:

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=2950

 

Not sure of the reason for that dip around 3400 rpm, but it is felt.

Subscribed.

 

FWIW the STIs were likely run in 4th gear, vs your 3rd gear run, which would help them a little bit in spool.

 

That's a good point and I hadn't considered it before, but would 4th gear taper after ~6k if 3rd was pulling all the way to redline? I would think the overall shape would remain similar between gears with maybe a small wtq boost in the low end for 4th. I could be completely off here...

That's a good point and I hadn't considered it before' date=' but would 4th gear taper after ~6k if 3rd was pulling all the way to redline? I would think the overall shape would remain similar between gears with maybe a small wtq boost in the low end for 4th. I could be completely off here...[/quote']

 

The only difference would be slightly better spool for the 4th gear runs due to higher engine loading.

My graph is from a 3rd gear pull. If you want mine to look more like yours I need to do a 4th gear pull. The gear ratios are different and my 4th is closer to your 3rd. I have a 6MT.

Subscribed.

 

FWIW the STIs were likely run in 4th gear, vs your 3rd gear run, which would help them a little bit in spool.

 

For sure.

 

Here is the OP's result compared to my twinscroll:

 

http://efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=681&rgb1=000000255&runid2=802&rgb2=204000000

OP....If you are able to do logs, do a 3rd gear pull from 2K - 6K then run Airboy's spreadsheet. Next import one of my 2K-6K pulls from my 68HTA thread. I have similar mods to your as well.

MONSTA Infamous POWA!

He thinks my e85 tune might be the fastest Legacy he has ever driven in.

 

:eek:

 

Wow!

hmmm.. I saw your graph in the fmic install thread and yes the curves do look similar, but your wtq numbers seem awfully low for your setup - even for craptacular 91 octane.

 

I have to ask, what was the reasoning behind doing TGV deletes/spacers with a 68HTA?

Actually I attribute the lower wtq number due to the combination of the lower 3rd gear pull, the ELH and the TGV deletes. All in which seem to hurt spool but aid with power once the boost hits. Full boost doesn't hit in mspank's car until 3500-3600rpms.

 

He thinks my e85 tune might be the fastest Legacy he has ever driven in.

 

I have E-tuned quicker however likely haven't ridden in quicker. This goes for LGT's ranging in the 375-400whp range (Dynojet). Feels quicker than my buddy's old WRX (12.4 at 113mph). Also my old 30r'd Lgt may have been ''technically'' faster but since the rpm band was moved soo far to the right the HTA setup feels much better.

Actually I attribute the lower wtq number due to the combination of the lower 3rd gear pull, the ELH and the TGV deletes. All in which seem to hurt spool but aid with power once the boost hits. Full boost doesn't hit in mspank's car until 3500-3600rpms.

 

While logically this might make sense it contradicts most of the comparisons I've found to setups with and without EL headers.

 

Example

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=2951

 

Coincidentally this is the curve I've been seeing on a majority of the 68hta setups, even without an aftermarket header. There's got to be more at play here than the ELH, no?

The difference in spool shown above is likely the difference between the LGT's 3rd and the STi's 4th gears. Note how much more efficient the STi setup is as well producing better numbers at lower boost(ELH).

Like I said, I have a 6MT and my airboy is from a 3rd gear pull. I guess I need to go out and do more 4th gear pulls for an airboy. But, 4th slips REAL bad at 4000rpm.

 

I am picking up my new clutch Saturday. I wont be waiting to install it. Once the clutch is in, "its on like Donkey Kong!"

MAF voltage from the COBB intake - OAT 45°F:

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=2950

 

Their were some people saying that since I was hitting 4.48v on the Cobb SF intake a hta68 would max it out, especially at lower elevations. This proves that assertion totally wrong! Glad someone else likes doing MAFv plots. Here is mine from the same intake, for reference (5400', 35F, E85, VF52).

 

http://beeez.com/lgt/mafv.jpg

To the OP - how do you like the XLE BOV? The small portion of me that is ricer wants one but I'm leary of even the 50/50 ones.

Nice graph (like all 68's) and nice numbers as well. There's a guy near me with a very similar setup with his 68HTA and after a tune for 22psi on 93 pump the stock motor blew up in under a month. He wasn't easy on it, but it wasn't raced or abused either. The stock motor had 60K miles on it. After a new short block with forged internals and machined heads went in, it was retuned for 21psi and put down 315whp / 338lb-ft. I hope your motor lasts longer than his did!

22psi is pushing it on pump gas IMHO...