Replace front pads and rotors?

So I had my brakes done 1 year (15k ago). I had Hawk HPS pads put on all 'round, new oem rear rotors, and had my fronts machined at the suggestion of my shop.

 

Now I have started to notice a slight (very slight) vibrating of the steering wheel during initial braking. I am assuming that my front rotors are warped (or have pad deposit on them). When I swap out my wheels this weekend I am going to take a closer look. Not entirely sure what I am looking for, but worth a look.

 

Assuming that I have to replace my front rotors, do I have to replace the front pads as well? I don't really want to end up spending more money again and buying another set of front pads again, but if I have to...so be it.

 

Being that I am not too happy with my shop, I am going to do this myself this time.

 

How do you guys compare Centric rotors to OEM? (any other suggestions with similar price range?) And what do you think about my pads?

Oh boy.

 

First off, it has been PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN on this very forum that brake rotors CANNOT WARP - EVER, so your rotors are not warped. The fact that Subaru and every other manufacturer includes runout measurements for rotors proves both that they all know about this problem and kow that it can never happen, which means that they are not qualified to build and sell cars

 

With that out of the way, you do not have to replace the pads, but if they are Hawk HPS, you might want to anyway

 

You can look at the rotors all day but it won't tell you anything, you need to measure runout, which is easy with a dial indicator, and impossible otherwise.

 

Centric rotors are just fine, as are most of the other replacement rotors. I posted a thread a while back n very inexpensive rotors and pads that are working fine for me.

Ok.

 

I have done some reading, and I now understand the whole "warping" myth. That is quite interesting and does make a lot of sense.

 

So now that I understand that, I have stumbled accross a few things I should try before jumping to replacing the rotors and/or pads. I am not really sure on the order of which I should try these:

 

- Re-bedding

- check tolerances (I have a dial indicator and I think I read that the tolerances are something like <0.003" for runout)

- clean rotors ? (I read suggestions to even remove the rotors and clean hub surface to ensure that there was no debris)

- basically re-do my shops job to ensure that everything was done right. (confirm that everything went on in the correct order and to the correct tension)

 

Anything else I should try?

 

So with all that, at what point should I be getting new rotors, and would I have to replace the pads again?

 

As for the Hawk pads, I just picked them because I wanted a better pad with less dust and a lot of people seemed to use them. I have no issues with using other pads, I just don't want to have to replace them when I just had them put on.

We have found this little $10 caliper to be useful in all kinds of cases included measuring the rotor. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93293

 

Check that out and see how much meat is left. As far as cleaning the rotor, get some sandpaper and run it around the rotor surface to clean up and use some brake cleaner to clean the mating surfaces.

 

Otherwise make sure all bolts are torqued evenly and to spec

So it took me a while to get time to check things out, but I measured the runout on the fronts and one of them measured at 0.005, which is over spec. At this point, is it even worth it for me to try using some sandpaper to remove deposits? Or should I just get new rotors (if there is only a slight chance that sanding will help, then I'd rather not go through the hastle).

 

This also leads me back to the original question.....with the pads not having too much wear on them, do I have to replace them again too?

Nope.

I recently had a similar problem. I pulled the wheels and checked the pads and they had minimal wear. After doing much reading here I tried rebedding them with the instructions from Stoptech and it cleared up the problem for me. My big problem is there is a long hill I have to go down with a stop light at the bottom, I guess I will get the occasional pad deposit on the rotors from that.

As long as the rotors are not below minimum thickness, just have them turned again ($20 at Pepboys) and re-install. Our front rotors are pretty thick, so they should be good for a couple of machinings. That's going to be much more effective way of making them perfectly straight again vs. the sandpaper option.

Well, I am amazed to report that re-bedding them last night made a HUGE difference. I can barely feel the shake now. If I wasn't trying to pay attention to any shake, I wouldn't notice it now.

 

I am wondering if I should give it another go to try and eliminate what little I still feel, or if I should just wait until I can really feel it again?

 

I must say that this whole process has been a real eye opener with brakes and rotors. This forum kicks a$$!

Oh boy.

 

First off, it has been PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN on this very forum that brake rotors CANNOT WARP - EVER, so your rotors are not warped. The fact that Subaru and every other manufacturer includes runout measurements for rotors proves both that they all know about this problem and kow that it can never happen, which means that they are not qualified to build and sell cars

 

Why do people resurface rotors, to remove the deposits/get an even mating surface? When watching a rotor being resurfaced, why are there some areas where more material is removed than others (what causes this)? This is what I used to think was proof that rotors warp.

 

Can you please educate me?

 

P.S. The search function did not educate me , maybe you can post a link to a thread please?

Just food for thought....hawk hps pads are good, but not good for a daily driver. The composition works best when hot, and if you are driving saying 15 miles down the highway and hit your brakes when you first get on and not again till you are getting off, they are going to be cold causing less performance than stock pads.

Ya, I am not increadably impressed by the hawk hps pads. I like that there is a lot less brake mess on my rims, but I haven't really noticed any other gains. In fact, I swear that they are wearing a lot faster, I haven't done any measurments, but visually that's what it looks like.

 

LL:

Rob would probably be best to answer you. A lot of the threads that I read on the subject of warping vs deposits he tuned in on.

I spoke to another member and realized that the deposits are from the pads themselves.

Here is an article I really like that breaks down the info that Stoptech has published

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1060-Orlando-Auto-Examiner~y2009m7d9-Theres-no-such-thing-as-warped-brake-rotors

Oh boy.

 

First off, it has been PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN on this very forum that brake rotors CANNOT WARP - EVER, so your rotors are not warped. The fact that Subaru and every other manufacturer includes runout measurements for rotors proves both that they all know about this problem and kow that it can never happen, which means that they are not qualified to build and sell cars

 

With that out of the way, you do not have to replace the pads, but if they are Hawk HPS, you might want to anyway

 

You can look at the rotors all day but it won't tell you anything, you need to measure runout, which is easy with a dial indicator, and impossible otherwise.

 

Centric rotors are just fine, as are most of the other replacement rotors. I posted a thread a while back n very inexpensive rotors and pads that are working fine for me.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7aXhXeeuew]YouTube- Subaru Legacy Warped DBA rotor[/ame]

 

my rotors as of this morning. Look at the hub part that is still and the rotor side that has some crazy wobble. sorry for the quality, but it was done with a shitty cellphone camera

So what pads are people using

We have found this little $10 caliper to be useful in all kinds of cases included measuring the rotor. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93293

 

Check that out and see how much meat is left. As far as cleaning the rotor, get some sandpaper and run it around the rotor surface to clean up and use some brake cleaner to clean the mating surfaces.

 

Otherwise make sure all bolts are torqued evenly and to spec

 

That wont give you a very accurate measurement because of the rotor lip on the outsides. You need something like this:

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-micrometer-98485.html

So what pads are people using

 

We've installed 100s and 100s of sets of Hawk HPS pads in the past 10 years on all kinds of cars. This is what we use as an OEM replacement for most of our customers. (Most of them are somewhat enthusiastic drivers) and have never had a complaint of noise, dust or lack of stopping power. Most of them like the additional bite they provide. We do however bed them in and usually flush the system (pads usually last 30-40k miles and you should be flushing every 30k miles anyway) for them. Hawk HPS are good for daily driving up to and including Auto-x and HPDE Level 1. Beyond that you'll want to go to HP+ pads or even the DTC30s.

 

The re-bedding techniques described above have saved our customers from replacing pads or rotors prematurely. I can't tell you how many times we've re-bedded stock pads for customers instead of selling them new rotors/pads.

 

-mike

I was very unhappy with the combo of R1 Concepts rotors + HPS pads. Seemed to only wear the outer 1/2" of the rotor, even after 10K miles. Any "panic" stops turned into adventures.

 

I did some re-bedding, and when hot, they stopped great. Just that they never seemed to get that hot. So, I replaced 'em with brakeswap blank rotors + Carbotech Bobcats. For the last 10K miles, it's been great. Lately, something has felt just a little off, but I'm insanely sensitive and also seem to notice things that aren't even there :-)

 

The previous set of HPS pads I had on OEM rotors were ok for 10-15K miles. On the whole, I'm happier with Bobcats. YMMV.

So what pads are people using

Just had my brakes done the other day.

Front:

Powerstop Evolution Ceramic W/Brakeperformance Drilled/slotted rotors

Rear:

EBC Yellowstuff W/EBC 3GD Dimpled/slotted rotors.

Car stops on a dime, way better than previous crappy OEM stuff.

Just food for thought....hawk hps pads are good, but not good for a daily driver. The composition works best when hot, and if you are driving saying 15 miles down the highway and hit your brakes when you first get on and not again till you are getting off, they are going to be cold causing less performance than stock pads.

 

Are you referring to the Hawk HP+ (Plus) pads? The Hawk HPS pads should be good for a daily driven car.

Yeah I think people confuse the HPS and HP+.

 

-mike

HPS is ok for a daily driver, but not great. i have them in my outback. if i compare to HP+ which i have in my LGT, i prefer the HP+ even as a daily driver pad.

 

The problem with HPS is people expect alot more then what they end up getting from them. they arent that much better than OEM. they can take heat alittle more and have slightly better modulation, but other than that, they are no miracle pad. And HPS is borderline for Autox use. If you are running a sticky tire or r-comps, HPS will not do.

Just had my brakes done the other day.

Front:

Powerstop Evolution Ceramic W/Brakeperformance Drilled/slotted rotors

Rear:

EBC Yellowstuff W/EBC 3GD Dimpled/slotted rotors.

Car stops on a dime, way better than previous crappy OEM stuff.

 

not trying to hate, just curious. Why did you choose different setup for front & rear? I am having ebc 3gd and hawk hps installed soon on all 4.

I basically got everything on the cheap. Powerstop I got for $25 off ebay, the EBC Yellows starting bid was a 1 cent with 39.98 for shipping. The EBC 3GD starting bid was 1 cent with 69.98 for shipping. Breakperformance(pattern matches the EBC 3GD's) I got for $167 came with free semi-metallic pads. Basically I was on a budget I didn't want to over spend just in case I had to replace something else on the car(,now I have to get 4 new tires'.) I was going to get some Project Mu' B-Spec pads for the front to match up with the yellows, but than i'm like why spend more $$$ when I already have everything I need for a complete brake job. I also wanted to see what it was like with a higher friction pad in the rear to shift the brake bias slightly to the back.