Recommended Carbotechs for HPDE?

Well I had my first outing on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point. Had an absolute blast! There are more events coming up that I want to partake in, and I'm guessing my Bobcats will not be up for the challenge of longer/harder braking on Summit's main course (in July). The Bobcats performed great for the "low speed" setup we had (morning session was slow brake, slalom, and skidpad instruction where the afternoon got us 2 runs at the full Jefferson course). I'm happy to report that my rotors now have that nice blueish tint to them that the Carbotechs leave behind.

 

Are the XP8's not suited for the LGT because the car is too heavy or would they suffice?

 

I'll be running on Kumho Escta ASX all seasons, OEM rotors, and GS610 fluid if that helps.

 

Thanks!

I don't recall the carbotech versions, but you're going to want something on their heavier use / higher temp end of the line. I used their panther plus previously and they just didn't hold up.

 

FWIW, I'm trying Hawks this year: DTC-70 in the fronts and DTC-60 in the rear. I believe it's cheaper than the carbotech's; we'll see how they hold up...

The XP8s with all-season tires would be sufficient. However, if you ever went to high performance tires or Rcompounds, you would need a higher compound. If you plan on running stock pads in the rear, Id go one step higher for compound.

 

DTC70s might be too much for a car with all season tires.

 

Whatever you do, do not use the Bobcats for the Summit Main event. They WILL end up glazing!

 

Whatever you do, do not use the Bobcats for the Summit Main event. They WILL end up glazing!

 

 

Yep, I made that mistake at summit point. Wont do that again. Still trying to decide between hawk DT-60/70 series or the higher carbotechs.

I'm on XP8's with summer street tires. XP10 or higher would be better suited imo.

I've run the Carbotech AX6 at my past 3 HPDE events. The first 2 events I had RE070s and this past one i had the RE01Rs also with GS610 fluid (best fluid imho). I also have XP12s and I think i'll hold on to those for when i get R-comps. So far my setup with the AX6s have been just right. I suggest you try it out as the next step over the bobs.

Great advise guys! So if I go up in tire stickiness, I should go with a higher compound. I'm assuming this also includes summer tires?

 

Eric, when you say "If you plan on running stock pads in the rear, Id go one step higher for compound.", are you refering to my Bobcats as the stock pads? Meaning I'd run something like XP10s in the front and Bobcats in the rear?

 

I shouldn't need higher compound pads in the rear will I, I mean the rears won't get that hot will they? Would something like XP10s in the front and XP8s in the rear be good for my all seasons with the possibility of going with a more grippy tire compound in the future? Or will I just hit my ABS that much sooner with XP10s and the all seasons?

 

Also, with all of Carbotech compounds, don't you not have to bed in the pads if you are switching between the two? Like if you've bedded in Bobcats, you shouldn't have to bed in any of their other pads? Or did I just dream that I read that somewhere???

Regardless of manufacturer, you'll need to bed in the pads. Carbotech recommends that you don't switch between manufacturers on the same rotors though iirc --or something like that.

 

You could run a stock / non-track pad in the rears but it makes the fronts work a little harder and shifts the bias up. It'd be better to have complimentary pads though

Great advise guys! So if I go up in tire stickiness, I should go with a higher compound. I'm assuming this also includes summer tires?

 

Eric, when you say "If you plan on running stock pads in the rear, Id go one step higher for compound.", are you refering to my Bobcats as the stock pads? Meaning I'd run something like XP10s in the front and Bobcats in the rear?

 

I shouldn't need higher compound pads in the rear will I, I mean the rears won't get that hot will they? Would something like XP10s in the front and XP8s in the rear be good for my all seasons with the possibility of going with a more grippy tire compound in the future? Or will I just hit my ABS that much sooner with XP10s and the all seasons?

 

Also, with all of Carbotech compounds, don't you not have to bed in the pads if you are switching between the two? Like if you've bedded in Bobcats, you shouldn't have to bed in any of their other pads? Or did I just dream that I read that somewhere???

 

If I remember correctly, you purchased just front Bobcats, but left your rears are OEM? That is what I mean... with "stock" rear pads, your fronts will heat up more, hence the recommendation to goto a higher compound. If you are planning on putting track compounds all around, Id still recommend XP10 front and XP8 rear. That would give you room to improve in the future and if you ever changed tires or started getting more aggressive, you would be covered.

 

You should bed in whatever new pads you get. If you stick with the Carbotech line, it will be easier since the pad formulations are similar.

Would the XP10/XP8 combo be too much for the Kumho ASX all seasons? I'm trying to budget some of this stuff out, and figured that brakes would come before tires (but tires soon after). I might just run these tires for this season and upgrade for the next (but thats probably for a different thread).

 

My priorities go like this:

1. Helmet

2. Fire extinguisher

3. Brakes

4. Wheels/Tires

If those tires are going to be your setup... Id skip the rear track compound completely. Go with XP8 up front and be done with it.

Will the paint on the XP8s hold up, because it completely melted/burned off my front bobcats.

Will the paint on the XP8s hold up, because it completely melted/burned off my front bobcats.

 

Maybe for one session The paint on there is to help the consumer determine the compound. It isnt meant to last a long time

I always like to throw this in, but I love XP8s as an aggressive street pad in Spring/Summer/Fall if you don't mind some dust. Now that I've used them, I wouldn't go back to regular street pads, but that's just me.

 

Will be trying XP10s at the track in May (XP8s made it through, but I think with my R-compounds, as Magnetic noted, 10s or 12s would be better).

So whats the relation with pad compounds and tire grippiness? Do you NEED R-Comps for the XP10s or will sticky summer tires do?

There's no perfect relation there. General idea is they need to roughly match, or you end up either with:

 

Pads better than tires = engaging ABS regularly, wasting expensive pads

Tires better than pads = brakes underperforming, wasted expensive tires

There's no perfect relation there. General idea is they need to roughly match, or you end up either with:

 

Pads better than tires = engaging ABS regularly, wasting expensive pads

Tires better than pads = brakes underperforming, wasted expensive tires

 

Something like that.

 

Basically, your braking is limited to your tire grip. By providing more brake bite and torque, nothing will improve if your tires are the limiting factor.

I cannot decide, What would be the better choice?

 

I am buying track dedicated pads. I have DBA4000 rotors and run Hawk preformance pads as daily driving pads. I am fairly advanced in HPDE and brake pretty agressively and fairly late. I was thinking that XP10s front and rear would be good but then I read this on Carbotech's website:

"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. "

 

Would this actually matter?

Since I use hawk pads and dont want to turn my rotors before each track weekend I am looking into Hawk DTC60/70, can anyone comment on experience with these pads? Also, what are thoughts on split friction btw front and rear?

 

Note: I am not using Rcomps (yet) but I have pretty sticky summer tires.

I cannot decide, What would be the better choice?

 

I am buying track dedicated pads. I have DBA4000 rotors and run Hawk preformance pads as daily driving pads. I am fairly advanced in HPDE and brake pretty agressively and fairly late. I was thinking that XP10s front and rear would be good but then I read this on Carbotech's website:

"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. "

 

Would this actually matter?

Since I use hawk pads and dont want to turn my rotors before each track weekend I am looking into Hawk DTC60/70, can anyone comment on experience with these pads? Also, what are thoughts on split friction btw front and rear?

 

Note: I am not using Rcomps (yet) but I have pretty sticky summer tires.

 

Not totally necessary. That statement is there because sometimes with different manufacturers the compounds are not as compatible. WIll require more aggressive bedding or you will get weird pad deposits and vibrations.