Recently purchased 2005 Legacy GT developed loud engine knock

A little over two weeks ago the 2005 Legacy GT I bought in March developed a very loud engine knock. I know a knocking noise can be caused by a lot of different things but I'm hoping that someone here may have encountered an issue like mine and/or be able to offer some advice. I'll start by giving some background on the car.

I purchased this car three months ago from another user on the forums, naCAnItihS. Some of you may have seen the thread when it was for sale: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/ma-2005-legacy-gt-5eat-67k-sti-motor-220622.html

According to the seller, the original engine had been swapped out with an ’05 STi motor (67k on it), the turbo had been replaced (10k), valve seats were re-lapped and the timing belt was replaced. We took it for a test drive. The car was running very well. The body was in good shape.

For the first few weeks everything was pretty much problem free. The first real issue that occurred started about a month after I bought it. The car began popping the occasional p0011 & p0021 codes. I checked the car out when this started. There was were no other concerning symptoms at the time, the car ran fine, fluid levels were good, etc. etc. I researched the issue quite a bit and it the codes can be caused by many things.

[Current Status]

The knocking began about two weeks ago while on my way home from work. The car very suddenly lost a lot of engine power and I could hear a squealing noise accompanied but loud knocking. Luckily I was a block from my house and was able to limp it to my driveway and parked just as it stalled out. It's been in my driveway ever since while I've been trying to sort out what the problem is. I checked the oil and although the level is fine, I did notice that there are some metallic particulates, looks like very fine specs of glitter, in the oil. (The particles are very fine and hard to see and are only really visible with direct sunlight). I took off the accessory belt and timing cover to get a look at things and recorded what the knock sounds like for reference:

http://youtu.be/svrec0ciKSk

The noise is not audible when the car first turns over but starts shortly after. The noise is coming more from the left hand side (passenger side). It sounds more external, i.e. not very deep in the engine. When you rev it the RPMs often drop very low right afterward before it comes back up to normal idle.

Also worth noting, there is some wear on the outer side of the timing belt but unsure if this is directly related or not. This drew my attention though since the belt was supposedly replaced by seller very recently. It is clear that the idler pulleys were not replaced at the time as they are looking worn:

http://www.glitchstudios.net/photos/i-dpTZJWs/0/M/i-dpTZJWs-M.jpg

I'm hesitant to replace the timing system components just yet until I find out if the engine itself is toast.

[speculation]

Some friends have taken a look at the car and suggested a few varied diagnoses from damage to the valve train to a spun rod bearing. The noise itself is very similar to the noise produced by a bad timing belt tensioner pulley but the knocking doesn’t appear to be coming from that part of the engine bay. I began researching more and came across one possibility. See (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html?t=173358&highlight=p0011)

The above thread notes the following symptoms for a blown turbo:

 

1. Smoke. Some owners see smoke from the exhaust before or during failure, typically there is more smoke while in boost. May or may not be accompanied by oil in the intercooler, noticeable oil consumption.
   
2. Noise. Owners report squealing, screaming noises from under the hood much of the time. In some cases it’s instant failure with no warning but most seem to be able to limp some distance before complete failure.
   
3. Metallic particles in the oil. Very often very fine and non-magnetic, so magnetic drain plugs or magnets stuck on the oil pan may not catch this.
   
4. Catastrophic turbo failure, no boost, CEL etc. Many owners report being stranded at the roadside unable to start or run the car. Very often it’s possible to run the car very gently but no boost can be obtained.
   
5. Engine lubrication failure, oil contamination, catastrophic engine damage. Some owners have continued to run the car past the point where the turbo failed in order to get home or to a shop, and had the engine fail completely on the way. Usually a bearing spins, the oil pressure light comes on or some other combination of CELs occurs and the engine will no longer run or is so noisy the owner won’t run it any further.
   

The first symptom doesn’t apply to my car but the others may. The one and only time I heard a squealing (see 2) was when the car initially suffered the loss engine power (see 4). There are fine metallic particles present like in #3 and if it is a spun rod bearing or the like that would be symptom 5. The thread cites faulty banjo filters starving the turbo of oil and causing its premature failure. There is no other obvious symptoms (noise etc) leading me to suspect the turbo but it can’t be entirely ruled out.

I hoped the seller might be able to help me diagnose the car, or at least give me some more background info about it and the work he did so I tried contacting him but he hasn’t replied. It has concerned me that he hasn’t responded at all and makes me really uneasy about whether this car was sold under false pretenses. Finding out the source of the engine knock would really help me in deciding if the car is worth repairing or if it’s a money pit/lost cause. In its current state it is not roadworthy so it's a challenge to get it to a shop unless I pay to get it towed. I really don't want to see this investment turn into a $6k decoration in my backyard :/ Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[TLDR summary]

[symptoms]

1. Engine knock. Develops shortly after car is started. When engine is revved the RPMs often dip down very low before coming back to idle and the knocking noise resumes.

2. Wear on one side of the timing belt

3. Idler pulleys that have grease on the outside

4. Small metallic specks in engine oil (looks like flecks of glitter in sunlight)

[specs]

2005 Legacy GT (150k)

5EAT Automatic Transmission (150k)

2005 STi motor (67k)

VF-40 Turbo (10k)

Glitter in oil = New short block and the works. Pull the turbo and see how it looks. The turbo could be destroyed causing the metal in the oil.= and the noises..Start there

Also, how much boost were you running? What type of oil, and how often did you change it? When was last time you changed it?

time for an engine rebuild/new short block. and turbo possibly. if your able to pull the engine and replace it you can save a ton of money that way. metal in the oil is a bad sign.

i pulled my engine and took the heads to a local machine shop to re lap the valves clean and sealed for $350. a new short block is right at $1800 from the dealer, or find a shop that is familiar with subaru engines to build the old one $???. then new gasket set for the whole assy $250.

there is a lot of good info in the forums, just search and you will find it...... good luck

You have spun a bearing sir....

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/arm-chair-diagnostics-help-video-205621.html

I did change the oil and constantly checked it to make sure the level was fine. I also let the car warm up before driving it and kept it running for a bit before shutting it off.

I ran Rotella T-6 5-40. The car was under normal boost, I kept it stock.

You were sold a problem child!!

This^

It doesn't matter how well you took care of the car, you don't know it's full history...once the oil system is contaminated it doesn't take long for things to go south. I'm not trying to insinuate you we're mislead into buying a car with problems, but why did the previous owner replace the motor?

I did change the oil and constantly checked it to make sure the level was fine. I also let the car warm up before driving it and kept it running for a bit before shutting it off.

I ran Rotella T-6 5-40. The car was under normal boost, I kept it stock.

Don't let the car idle to warm up, start it and drive it. See my click here link.

This^

It doesn't matter how well you took care of the car, you don't know it's full history...once the oil system is contaminated it doesn't take long for things to go south. I'm not trying to insinuate you we're mislead into buying a car with problems, but why did the previous owner replace the motor?

From what I got from the seller and from the fact he has sold other Legacy GTs in the same way, is he bought a LGT with a blown motor so he could put in a motor he had ready to go and then sell the car. The only reason I felt comfortable with this is he has sold other people LGTs with no issues, he works at a speed shop, and from what I gathered on the forums here, hasn't tried to screw people over. What bothers me is the fact that he hasn't gotten back to me at all(I wasn't rude or anything when I tried to contact him). I know I'm outside of the lemon law and he doesn't have to do anything, it is just more of a courtesy. I am worried that this might have been done on purpose or maybe he screwed something up with the motor install. I really don't know at this point.

From what I got from the seller and from the fact he has sold other Legacy GTs in the same way, is he bought a LGT with a blown motor so he could put in a motor he had ready to go and then sell the car. The only reason I felt comfortable with this is he has sold other people LGTs with no issues, he works at a speed shop, and from what I gathered on the forums here, hasn't tried to screw people over. What bothers me is the fact that he hasn't gotten back to me at all(I wasn't rude or anything when I tried to contact him). I know I'm outside of the lemon law and he doesn't have to do anything, it is just more of a courtesy. I am worried that this might have been done on purpose or maybe he screwed something up with the motor install. I really don't know at this point.

If he's got a reputation here, I wouldn't think he did it on purpose. Did he fully rebuild the motor he put in there, or did it come out of another car? If it came out of another car, again, you don't know the full history. I don't see how it's possible for this to happen from a poor install unless he rebuilt the motor (in which case it would be the rebuild not the install). These things spin bearings, even from the factory with low mileage.

If he's got a reputation here, I wouldn't think he did it on purpose. Did he fully rebuild the motor he put in there, or did it come out of another car? If it came out of another car, again, you don't know the full history. I don't see how it's possible for this to happen from a poor install unless he rebuilt the motor (in which case it would be the rebuild not the install). These things spin bearings, even from the factory with low mileage.

From what I was told it was out of an another car and he had the heads off so he cleaned them up. I just wish he would respond to me just so I could get some more insight from him.

Did you read my click here link. That engine has 40,000 trouble free miles on it.

Do it right the first time.

I agree with others that I'm pretty sure the guy you bought it from isn't out to get folks--pretty sure he fixes up subies as a bit of a side business. I have also reached out to him in the past for other things and gotten no / delayed responses, so maybe communication just isn't a strong suit or he's not on here much.

 

Either way, from the timeline of events it seems like just bad luck and I wouldn't expect him to really help out--although maybe he would help with the rebuild / engine replacement if you go that route.

 

Good luck either way, cruddy situation really.

I kinda figure this might be the case and it is good to at least know this. To me it just didn't make sense since he hasn't really screwed people over in the past. The whole situation sucks and contemplating if it is even worth trying to fix the car or just get out while I can to minimize the damage as much as possible. Thank you none-the-less

OP, have you ruled out the small idler pulley and the timing belt tensioner? These two items could give you a knocking sound if either of them fail. I'd pull the timing cover, turn on engine for a very short time and listen..

Did you pull the turbo?

Loss of power, noise from passenger side, particles in the oil, and p0011/p0021 lead me there.

My guess is the turbo is blown and the banjo bolt screens are plugged.

My son's car had similar symptoms. I was able to rebuild the engine with minimal clean up ($800) at the machine shop and of course new bearings and rings and oil cooler.