Real World Comparison, LGT 5EAT vs. OBXT 5MT

I’ve had my 5MT OB XT for 11 months now. It’s a base model with a 5MT. Unfortunately I’ve had a couple of lingering service issues. As a result I have had the opportunity to use the dealer’s loaner 5EAT LGT base model sedans.

All totaled I’ve had three of these loaners. One was for a week. The second was for just a day and the third (right now) will be for a couple of days.

Some observations:

I HATE the 5EAT. It SUCKS. Sorry guys. It is better than the 4EAT but not by much.

Its herky jerky, upshifts in manual mode are sloooooow. I mean you shift and ……..then……it shifts. I will admit that downshifts are quick.

I notice no difference in “sport mode” vs. “drive” except the ability to shift with the shift handle.

As many have written before me, turbo lag is pretty bad with the 5EAT and pretty much non existent with the 5MT.

Ride height - When I drive the OBXT and switch to the LGT the LGT seems ridiculously low to the ground. When I drive the LGT and switch to the OBXT the OBXT seems ridiculously high off of the ground.

Fuel economy - 60% of driving is suburban surface-streets where you cab cruise in between lights at 45MPH. 40% is freeway at 65MPH to 75MPH. Under these conditions the OBXT averages 21 to 23. Real world MPG, dividing gallons filled and miles driven between fill ups. The trip computer is about 1mpg higher. FWIW my wife’s v70, non-turbo, wagon with 5MT gets 30 MPG + under the same conditions.

The 5EAT un the Legacy sedan ranges 19 to 21 under the same conditions.

Handling – Obviously the LGT does better here. However, I replaced the OBXT’s 92a’s with Michelin pilot sport A/S last fall. With the tire change the difference in handling is minimal. The LGT being lower to the ground feels MUCH more secure at high speed though. I think that’s psychological on my part though.

The subwoofer makes a BIG difference.

The shift knob on the 5EAT is MUCH nicer than the standard 5MT leather knob. I like the shape and feel of the momo knob the most. However I have resorted to wrapping it in a sock so I don’t have OMOM burned into my palm.

Its herky jerky, upshifts in manual mode are sloooooow. I mean you shift and ……..then……it shifts. I will admit that downshifts are quick.

 

As many have written before me, turbo lag is pretty bad with the 5EAT and pretty much non existent with the 5MT.

At least the 5EAT doesn't come with a "free" stinky clutch.

If you want an automatic that shifts fast, get a DSG or SMG.

At least the 5EAT doesn't come with a "free" stinky clutch.

 

If you want an automatic that shifts fast, get a DSG or SMG.

Hey, that stink is a premium addition!

FWIW my stinky clutch problem seems to have gone away. Haven't noticed it for about 6 months now.

Thanks for the comparo!

I havent driven a 2005 5MT, but I came from a 2000 Manual GT and I admit that I miss the "connected" feel with the car now (I have a 5EAT GT Ltd Wagon). However, I am SO happy not to have to drive a stick in traffic anymore - not to mention my wrist tendonitis doesnt hurt anymore either!

I have driven other sport-shift manuals, and to me, the Legacy 5EAT is pretty darn good in comparison. Overall, I would definitely get the Auto again. The engine is a blast and I get the best of both worlds.

(im sure if I drove a manual, I would freak at how much faster it feels...but Im happy, so who cares!)

There has to be something wrong with those cars if you didn't notice the difference between Drive and sport.

I’ve had my 5MT OB XT for 11 months now. It’s a base model with a 5MT. Unfortunately I’ve had a couple of lingering service issues. As a result I have had the opportunity to use the dealer’s loaner 5EAT LGT base model sedans.

 

All totaled I’ve had three of these loaners. One was for a week. The second was for just a day and the third (right now) will be for a couple of days.

 

Some observations:

 

I HATE the 5EAT. It SUCKS. Sorry guys. It is better than the 4EAT but not by much.

 

Its herky jerky, upshifts in manual mode are sloooooow. I mean you shift and ……..then……it shifts. I will admit that downshifts are quick.

 

I notice no difference in “sport mode” vs. “drive” except the ability to shift with the shift handle.

 

As many have written before me, turbo lag is pretty bad with the 5EAT and pretty much non existent with the 5MT.

 

Ride height - When I drive the OBXT and switch to the LGT the LGT seems ridiculously low to the ground. When I drive the LGT and switch to the OBXT the OBXT seems ridiculously high off of the ground.

 

Fuel economy - 60% of driving is suburban surface-streets where you cab cruise in between lights at 45MPH. 40% is freeway at 65MPH to 75MPH. Under these conditions the OBXT averages 21 to 23. Real world MPG, dividing gallons filled and miles driven between fill ups. The trip computer is about 1mpg higher. FWIW my wife’s v70, non-turbo, wagon with 5MT gets 30 MPG + under the same conditions.

 

The 5EAT un the Legacy sedan ranges 19 to 21 under the same conditions.

 

Handling – Obviously the LGT does better here. However, I replaced the OBXT’s 92a’s with Michelin pilot sport A/S last fall. With the tire change the difference in handling is minimal. The LGT being lower to the ground feels MUCH more secure at high speed though. I think that’s psychological on my part though.

 

The subwoofer makes a BIG difference.

 

The shift knob on the 5EAT is MUCH nicer than the standard 5MT leather knob. I like the shape and feel of the momo knob the most. However I have resorted to wrapping it in a sock so I don’t have OMOM burned into my palm.

and the OBXT's brakes are so much better too...

True. The tire upgrade helped there. Fortunately I haven't had toe really test either one......

If I had the choice I'd trade bigger better fog lamps for bigger better rear brakes!!!!

Thanks for the write up! Our ownership experiences are quite similar in many ways. The OB XT 5EAT is my wife's car primarily and our first automatic vehicle in 25 years. Agreed, the shifts in the sport mode are freak'in slow, however the 5sp automatic performs fine from our point of view. Smooth shifts in a around the town, city setting...

Hey....there's a torque converter present. And we all know, "You can't shine a sneaker"

Cheers,

Mike

Thanks for the comparo!

 

I havent driven a 2005 5MT, but I came from a 2000 Manual GT and I admit that I miss the "connected" feel with the car now (I have a 5EAT GT Ltd Wagon). However, I am SO happy not to have to drive a stick in traffic anymore - not to mention my wrist tendonitis doesnt hurt anymore either!

 

I have driven other sport-shift manuals, and to me, the Legacy 5EAT is pretty darn good in comparison. Overall, I would definitely get the Auto again. The engine is a blast and I get the best of both worlds.

 

(im sure if I drove a manual, I would freak at how much faster it feels...but Im happy, so who cares!)

After 15 years of auto this was my first MT. I have driven my wife's MT's over the past 10 years though.

I am LOVING the control I have now and probably will never go back so long as the MT is an option. It's coming time to upgrade my wife's car and I'm kinda bummed that the b9 doesn't come with an MT.

The GT auto isn't bad. Actually its quite good. 5 gears vs. 4 is VERY important. But, when you compare it to a tru MT it just doesn't measure up.

There has to be something wrong with those cars if you didn't notice the difference between Drive and sport.

I’m now on my third. GT loaner that is. All are the same. I drove auto for years and taught myself to at least try to regulate shifts with throttle pressure. IE keep it in gear by keeping the pressure on the gas.

My 01 4EAT OB was pathetic when I tried to do this.

With the 5EAT GT's I notice no difference between D and Sport when I do this. Trust me, I tried.

My .02 if I may...

 

The shifting and fuel economy are greatly due to the fact that the adaptive transmission hasn't learned your driving style. I don't know if the slow manual mode shifting has anything to do with this, but the shifts will not be lightning fast. It is a computer, has to figure out several variables and decide if it is in fact safe to shift before it actually does. Also, I believe there is a lateral G sensor in there which may delay the shift in a corner...

I think you are right about the G sensor. Usually when I'm goiing into a corner I try to shift the thing myself anyway. Problem with that if I'm looking for third I shift it into neutral :-(

Thanks for the write up! Our ownership experiences are quite similar in many ways. The OB XT 5EAT is my wife's car primarily and our first automatic vehicle in 25 years. Agreed, the shifts in the sport mode are freak'in slow, however the 5sp automatic performs fine from our point of view. Smooth shifts in a around the town, city setting...

 

Hey....there's a torque converter present. And we all know, "You can't shine a sneaker"

 

 

Cheers,

Mike

Mike:

If I was in true stop and go traffic I'm right with you. I'm lucky that the only real traffic that I get stuck in sort or creeps along so I'm able to keep the car in 2nd or 3rd. Actually its kind of fun.

Uphill stop and go. True stop and go, would be a nightmare.

like someone said, the computer probably needs to adapt. the wife's WRX 4EAT is sooooo slow......until i take it for a few days and "wring it out". she drives like a grandma - i'm not sure that thing ever sees much boost. when i drive it for a few days, its back to being a snarling little beast. then i'll get the complaint from her, "my fuel mileage went way down."

"maybe you got some bad gas?"

^^^^^

Oh man, I've got to remember that one - the excuse, that is!

I'm glad I'm not the only one doing the 4EAT wifey-WRX thingie.

Keep rockin', brotha.

-A

The Outback has better brakes? Interesting. Why would this be?

How are you calculating fuel economy? By hand, or relying on the trip computer? I've often read of inaccurate trip computers. 30 MPG from a car the size of the V70 seems amazingly high. Hybrid? Who needs a hybrid?

I drive a lot of cars. After driving sports cars my Protege5's seating position always seems awfully high at first. After driving a Lotus Elise I felt like I was in a Lincoln Navigator. But I get used to it again after a few miles. Like how you described it.

The quickest-shifting manmatic I've encountered is, surprisingly enough, the one in the Pontiac Grand Prix. Shame it's hooked up to only four gears, so you're not exactly shifting that often. Worse, in the GP you can't downshift into first above 35 MPH. Might not sound like a problem, but in second at that speed the engine's only turning about 2500 RPM. A very loose torque converter compensates somewhat.

The Outback has better brakes? Interesting. Why would this be?

 

How are you calculating fuel economy? By hand, or relying on the trip computer? I've often read of inaccurate trip computers. 30 MPG from a car the size of the V70 seems amazingly high. Hybrid? Who needs a hybrid?

 

I drive a lot of cars. After driving sports cars my Protege5's seating position always seems awfully high at first. After driving a Lotus Elise I felt like I was in a Lincoln Navigator. But I get used to it again after a few miles. Like how you described it.

 

The quickest-shifting manmatic I've encountered is, surprisingly enough, the one in the Pontiac Grand Prix. Shame it's hooked up to only four gears, so you're not exactly shifting that often. Worse, in the GP you can't downshift into first above 35 MPH. Might not sound like a problem, but in second at that speed the engine's only turning about 2500 RPM. A very loose torque converter compensates somewhat.

The v70 is a base 2001. 2.4 liter 5 cylinder, NON-TURBO, 5MT. Both 4th and 5th are overdrive gears (kind of like 5th and 6th on some 6 speeds). Not exactly a screamer in the performance category but it’s safe, comfortable and gets great MPG.

Not a very common car in that configuration. When we ordered it the dealer did a national search and only found one other in the inventory. Most of the v70’s are 2.4 or 2.5 turbo with 5EAT.

I think the whole hybrid thing is being overplayed by the media. Fuel economy can be achieved just as easily with gearing. Case in point I had a 92 accord with a 2.2 liter 4 and a 4AT. I got 25MPG out of that. The final drive (axel) ration was over 4.00:1.0. But it was spirited. If the final drive was 3:1 MPG would have gone up and I would have complained that it was a pig.

The hybrids are getting a lot of play right now. They seem to do better when the drive includes a lot of stop-and-go traffic. But, they are at a disadvantage in highway situations because of all the extra weight.

I divide miles driven on the trip odometer by gallons pumped. Saturday I pumped just under 11 gallons and reset the trip odo at 327 miles. For me fuel mileage is better in the summer vs. winter. Also, when I first bought the car I was cheap and only used 87 octane gas. I switched to 91 last year and it immediately improved by 2 MPG.

Can't fault your methodology. That's some sweet MPG.

I know what you mean about gearing. My Protege5 used to get only 24-25 MPG despite weighing about 2800 pounds with a 2.0-liter. Why? I was doing a lot of highway driving at 77 MPH (speed limit 70), at which point the engine is spinning about 3800 RPM.

I recently moved, and am doing much less highway driving. MPG now 29-30. Summer weather helps my car also by about 2 MPG.

Can't fault your methodology. That's some sweet MPG.

 

I know what you mean about gearing. My Protege5 used to get only 24-25 MPG despite weighing about 2800 pounds with a 2.0-liter. Why? I was doing a lot of highway driving at 77 MPH (speed limit 70), at which point the engine is spinning about 3800 RPM.

 

I recently moved, and am doing much less highway driving. MPG now 29-30. Summer weather helps my car also by about 2 MPG.

I have found that the oxygenated winter gas reduces fuel economy by 5% to 10%. Seems odd that a pollution savings measure reduces fuel economy.

I notice no difference in “sport mode” vs. “drive” except the ability to shift with the shift handle.

If you can't notice a difference between "sport" and regular drive, there is either something wrong with the cars or something wrong with the driver. Try heading into a corner at a decent speed in normal "drive" and see how fast you can accelerate out the corner - and pay attention to how high the RPMS are. Next, switch it into "sport" mode and repeat the same process of accelerating out of a corner. As I said, if you don't notice a difference, there is something wrong. That is the most noticeable aspect of the more aggressive "sport" mapping, but even straight-line acceleration should be improved. As other members here pointed out, it could just be that the adaptive shift logic is not set up for spirited driving. However, in my experience, the "sport" aspect of the Legay's 5EAT SS is what makes it such a wonderful compromise.

I respect both the decision behind buying either transmission -- but was just writing to say that "sport" does make a huge difference in spirited driving.

Forgot about the winter gas formulation. I assumed it was something about the car. This makes more sense.

As for the "sport" issue, it's possible that the driver in question doens't power hard out of corners.

I haven't checked for a difference in the test drives I've taken. In my experience, though, "sport" setting often hold lower gears longer, sometimes far longer.

I've also noted that many drivers think the "sport" setting actually increases engine power and has a huge impact on full throttle acceleration. This is the general public though, not the more educated drivers likely to frequent forums like this one.

Forgot about the winter gas formulation. I assumed it was something about the car. This makes more sense.

 

As for the "sport" issue, it's possible that the driver in question doens't power hard out of corners.

 

I haven't checked for a difference in the test drives I've taken. In my experience, though, "sport" setting often hold lower gears longer, sometimes far longer.

 

I've also noted that many drivers think the "sport" setting actually increases engine power and has a huge impact on full throttle acceleration. This is the general public though, not the more educated drivers likely to frequent forums like this one.

I haven't yet heard someone say that they think "sport" mode increases horsepower, but as the general public's idiocy knows no bounds, it wouldn't surprise me. I think the best test of the "sport" setting would be ona race track, where acceleration out of corners is key to maintaining a good lap time. I have no doubts at all that "sport" mode would increase lap times ona good-sized, winding track by at least a second, if not more. The last corner I take every day before arriving at the office knows all too well how much of a difference "sport" makes. lol