Real gains of Cobb stage 1?

I've searched, believe me, but doing a search for "Stage 1" brings up alot of completely unrelated things as well. I just bought a used AP v1.0 off of a member and when it shows up I'm going to flash the 93 octane stage 1 map. Looking at Cobbs site, they're stating 290 horsepower and 305 lb's of torque, which to me sounds like a bunch of B.S., considering the car is only 245 or so stock. To me, that sounds like way to big of a gain for just a simple flash. If it's anywhere near being true, I'll be thrilled.

Where do the stage 1 gains come from, other than some more boost and some timing tweaks? With my turbo Buick, the general consensus is every lb. of boost you add is worth about 10 horsepower. I'm running 23-24lb's with alky injection compared to a stock 15 or so, with room to spare. Alky=

 

How much more boost does the Stage 1 map add to a LGT? Can someone link to some real data on the map? I know it's out there, I just didn't have any luck finding it. Thanks and sorry for being a PITA

Not being a gearhead I can't speak to the specifics of how/why Stg. 1 works. More boost is a big part..maybe the only part for all I know.

 

Being @ Stg. 1 I can say there is a BIG difference from stock and I personally wouldn't doubt Cobbs numbers. Whole other car. Esp. being that you have a 5spd.

 

Do it!

also, remember this is crank HP...thats about 190-210 to the wheels...MAYBE 215. You are better off with a Open Source stage 1 map...or a e-map

Thanks for the info, guys. Glad to hear that it's a big difference over stock, that's all I'm really after. Eventually I might look into up and down pipes, but for now I figured a little boost will hold me over. Their numbers just sound a little far fetched, that's all.

I'll need new tires in the spring and I'm probably going to look into new struts/springs as well, so that's going to eat up any mod money. I'm thinking abut selling the Buick in the spring since it hardly gets driven, so if I do, I'll take some of the profits from that and put into the Legacy

I wouldn't say Cobb stage 1 is a big difference over stock but it is definitely noticeable. It also got rid of some of that "stutter".

 

Cobb Stg 2 is a big difference over Cobb Stg 1. However IIRC, PDX's stg 1 maps make about the same or more power than the Cobb Stg 2.

 

PDX stg 2 makes a lot more power than Cobb stg 2.

I wouldn't say Cobb stage 1 is a big difference over stock but it is definitely noticeable. It also got rid of some of that "stutter".

 

Cobb Stg 2 is a big difference over Cobb Stg 1.

 

+1 stage 1 to me didn't feel much more powerful than stock but it made the driveability of the car much smoother. Stage 2 was a noticeable kick in the arse in terms of power.

Any links to PDX or TDC maps and are they something I can load into the AP???

 

I looked on TDC's site just a little bit ago and couldn't find sh*t about maps there. Where are you guys finding these things, lol?

I wouldn't say Cobb stage 1 is a big difference over stock but it is definitely noticeable. It also got rid of some of that "stutter".

 

Cobb Stg 2 is a big difference over Cobb Stg 1. However IIRC, PDX's stg 1 maps make about the same or more power than the Cobb Stg 2.

 

PDX stg 2 makes a lot more power than Cobb stg 2.

 

Stg. 1 (Cobb) over stock is a much bigger difference than Stg. 1 -> Stg. 2, according to their own numbers on their site anyway.....

 

I assume 5MT people will see LESS of a gain from stock -> Stg. 1 than 5EAT people would (me). My car is drastically quicker than is was stock.... Studder is totally gone, boost comes much earlier etc.

Any links to PDX or TDC maps and are they something I can load into the AP???

 

You can order your maps from PDX. They are 150 for a set. They will email you the maps and you load them onto your AP. It might take a few weeks or so to get them to you b/c they get backed up with orders. http://www.pdxtuning.com/

 

TDC doesn't exist anymore but Tuning Alliance is one of the guys that used to work for TDC.

Thanks for the link. If what you're saying is true about the pdx power, I might just order up their stage 1 sometime and consider the car done from a tuning standpoint

Are their maps compatible with a version 1 AP? I don't see why not, but you never know...**

 

** Nevermind, I see from their link, it's not a problem...

I assume 5MT people will see LESS of a gain from stock -> Stg. 1 than 5EAT people would (me). My car is drastically quicker than is was stock.... Studder is totally gone, boost comes much earlier etc.

 

 

I had those thoughts awhile ago. It seems like the 5EAT guys are more satisfied with Stg 1 than the 5MT guys like me.

 

I'd like to take a drive in a stg 1 5EAT car to see what it feels like. I remember how unimpressed I was of the stock 5EAT's acceleration when I test drove one.

Thanks for the link. If what you're saying is true about the pdx power, I might just order up their stage 1 sometime and consider the car done from a tuning standpoint

Are their maps compatible with a version 1 AP? I don't see why not, but you never know...

 

Yeah definitely ask them about their stg 1 maps. I believe they were hitting about 16psi which is about the same as Cobb stg 2.

 

Good luck with stopping the power mods on stg 1 lol. I guarantee you love it for a month and then start to wonder what more you can do.

 

Not sure about the v1 compatibility though.

Man, can't you guys not search ? Jesus Christmas...c'mon... search Stage 1 Dyno Graphs or justDyno Graphs. The 05-06 folks were happier with Stage 1 than the 07-09 folks but yes there is a real power gain.

I searched, man. *shrug* It pulled up more irrelevant garbage than anything.

pdx has a great thread somewhere with dynos of their different tunes

I would find it but I'm on my iPhone skiing...

I would find it but I'm on my iPhone skiing...

 

 

Hold on while I check this off on my list of things I'll never hear again

haha...I was at the half-way house taking a break...

This could be simply answered numerically by someone doing a datalog of just rpm from 2000 to redline. Do one log with stock rom then repeat with stage 1 rom.

 

Just make sure DA or IAM is equal to 1.

My butt dyno tells me that from stock to stage 1, the car pulls harder, definitely.

 

As for the actual numbers, I don't have any other than the boost figures. I never had a boost gauge when I was stock, but right now, I am Cobb Stage 1, 93 octane, and the boost peaks at about 16-17 PSI according to my Defi gauge. I'll hook up the accessport and see what it reads, but I would assume it's the same based on what everyone else is saying.

 

I suppose I could upload a 'stock' map back on to see what the boost peaks at but I really don't feel like it.

16-17 seems VERY high for the cobb map

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXTuv7D7ykg]YouTube - 2005 Subaru Legacy GT boost and oil pressure gauges[/ame]

 

Well, here's a video of my gauge. You can't really make it out too well, but obviously the mark at the top is 15PSI, and you can see the needle clearly hits that in second gear, and I'm not even accelerating that hard.

 

edit: It's possible that it's the angle, but I'll double check that when I get a chance, and also compare it to the numbers from the AP.

I had those thoughts awhile ago. It seems like the 5EAT guys are more satisfied with Stg 1 than the 5MT guys like me.

 

I'd like to take a drive in a stg 1 5EAT car to see what it feels like. I remember how unimpressed I was of the stock 5EAT's acceleration when I test drove one.

 

Certainly 5EAT guys are more satisfied..... more gain = more satisfaction. Regardless of the difference between auto and manual, I'm satisfied knowing that a $500 expense (used AP v2) can return a Stg. 1 result considering.....There's no hardware involved, I can revert back to sell the car or whatever in like 2 min. It's a win win. Maybe the 07+ crowd has different experiences/less gain though, I dont' know.

 

Stg. 1 5EAT competes with stock 5MT from what I can tell reading threads on this site. So of course you wouldn't be impressed with a stock 5EAT. Though I think people over estimate the differences between auto and manual. Of course, all mods being equal, a 5MT will always be quicker. I see Stg. 1 as a fix or equalizer to the disadvantages of the 5EAT stock. It just doesn't respond quickly enough...like pretty much all autos. So a little more boost and removal of the weird stock studder makes the whole car just that much more satisfying.

16-17 seems VERY high for the cobb map

confirmed today. Took my ap out and compared to my gauge reading. 16.5 is the absolute peak but it drop to about 15.4. This is stage 1 93 octane on an otherwise completely stock car. 1.16 map. Going to update to 1.18 shortly.

that was higher than when I ran stage 1 cobb...hmm

Read from your gauge or ap? Very interesting...