Our AWD system

Just curious why Subaru's are so amazing in snow. In the last storm 12-20 inches depending on where you were...I had to ferry several different cars with AWD. Mercedes s550 4matic...terrible in snow, front end only kicks in AFTER the car is almost sideways. Porsche Cayenne Turbo...didn't throw it around, but it seemed to react a little faster than the subie. Ford explorer....lol (dash had an awd position before 4wd)..20mph!..again...lol. Audi A4....capable but again was laggy and by no means did I feel confident enough to go as fast as I do in my stock tire subie. Toy Rav4...it was a 2000 with the old style AWD..very close in response time...handled differently though. No reviews seem to mention this other than to say it's awd leading the average consumer to think they are all the same. I recently drove 6.5 hours with 2 hours on snow packed highway...stress free at 60mph (no ice) and wouldnt think of doing that in anything else. My GF even prefers my car over her A4 in snow/ice because it "just feels right"...BTW she used to laugh at my legacy.

Fourth gen legacy's are very well balanced, and have a good wheelbase for snow driving. The 05 impreza I had before the legacy frankly sucked in snow, It had very unpredictable oversteer. Many people have terrible tires on their cars which makes more of a difference than anything.

 

I'll take my landcruiser over my legacy in snow any day. It just has more traction, the curb weight of 6000 lbs probably helps.

Many people have terrible tires on their cars which makes more of a difference than anything.

 

This is kind of what I was thinking when reading the OP.

 

It amazes me how little thought goes into tires with the vast majority of people. "Oh... I have 4-wheel drive, I'm fine"

 

*smh*

 

With the Dunlop Wintersport M3s I have on my wagon, the car is a friggen tank in the snow. If it gets too deep, I drive the 1st gen Tacoma with BFG All Terrains on it. <-- Unstoppable in the snow

I was more referring to the actual reaction and lag time of the awd system...every car I drove had new tires...more of a technical question.

AT or MT Subaru? GT or i? there are differences.

 

MT GT is a 50/50 split that with snow tires...unstoppable!

I'm sure that this video has come up at least a few times but this might help a little OP.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw]YouTube - Subaru AWD vs. competitors[/ame]

dont forget that on ice we become 1 wheel drive which frankly is SUCK! so they are circumstantial at best really...

It was suggested before that tires make a big difference, I agree..

 

While the Subaru AWD system is great and I have no complaints, I found our both of our prior Audi's handled slightly better in snow and icy conditions. I think I felt more confident in the Audi solely based on how much better the car braked..

Mullins..thanks for the link.

My LGT with Hankook Icebears handles snow like a champ... As long as its not too deep with the 1-1.5 inch drop I have on it. With the exception of ground clearance, I've been able to get in and out of parking spots in my gf's apartment complex that I watched some big trucks and suvs get stuck in.

 

The biggest thing with the AWD system is the type of transmission. MT is a true 50/50 split, 5EAT is a 45/55 split with predictive power transfer (active AWD), and the 4EAT is a 90/10 split with active AWD. So either LGT and the 2.5i with a 5MT is going to handle better in snow than the 2.5i with the 4EAT.

 

The 4EAT is still superior to other AWD systems because it is symmetrically balanced and proactive/predictive. It predicts when and which wheels might potentially lose traction so power is transferred almost immediately after losing traction. Most other manufacturers offer a reactive AWD system that takes time to react. Which is what that video shows.

Driving along at 60mph on the highway I dont feel any safer than I did in any other car.

 

I do feel safer knowing that I am less likely to get stuck if I am forced to stop tho..

 

Want to be impressed? Find a very steep hill covered in snow and climb it.

I was more referring to the actual reaction and lag time of the awd system...every car I drove had new tires...more of a technical question.

If that's the case then an Audi shouldn't disappoint you. Before everyone starts calling me the Euro Fanboy again, let me explain.

 

1. The Audi uses a Torsen center differential, we use a viscous. Torsen will respond to wheel-slip faster. The Torsen is a purely mechanical differential, there is no wait time for fluid to heat up.

 

2. Depending on which year of Quattro, the Audi also has a Torsen LSD in the rear as well. The LGT has a viscous (unless it's a SpecB.) So the rear differential should respond faster in the Audi as well.

 

3. Torque split is the same in manual Subarus and on Audi Quattro; it's 50:50 on both.

 

I'm not saying Audis system is better, but I think with identical tires you will find the Audi Quattro (do not be fooled, the "Quattro" in the A3 and TT is really Haldex) and Subaru's symmetrical will be pretty compromise in the snow.

It was suggested before that tires make a big difference, I agree..

 

While the Subaru AWD system is great and I have no complaints, I found our both of our prior Audi's handled slightly better in snow and icy conditions. I think I felt more confident in the Audi solely based on how much better the car braked..

 

upgrade your subie tires

upgrade your subie tires

ding ding ding! If you feel safer in the Audi because it brakes better, the AWD certainly is not the reason, it's the tires.

 

It's tough to compare AWD systems when vehicles are running different tires. For everyone that said "my Subaru handles better than X," or "my Audi handled better than my Subaru," did both vehicles have identical tires on them?

 

It still amazes me how much some people (particularity those a little less educated about cars,) neglect the importance of tires in various conditions, especially snow.

 

dont forget that on ice we become 1 wheel drive which frankly is SUCK! so they are circumstantial at best really...

Wouldn't that depend on which AWD system you have? If you have an automatic GT (5EAT) I would assume you would be the best off in this situation. Aren't the VTD systems capable of moving power side to side at each axle (with clutch packs,) where the MTs only have an LSD out back and in the center. In the video posted above they use a Legacy GT with the VTD AWD. It makes me wonder if the person making it knew the VTD AWD would reign superior over the "continuous AWD" system.

dont forget that on ice we become 1 wheel drive which frankly is SUCK! so they are circumstantial at best really...

 

No. We become 2.5 wheel drive.

 

One of the fronts, and one or both of the rears depending on how your LSD feels that morning.

 

Unless you have a non LSD equipped car, in which case you are only 2WD. One front, one rear. It is VERY hard to stop 3 wheels on a Subaru, and snow and ice isn't going to do it.

No. We become 2.5 wheel drive.

 

One of the fronts, and one or both of the rears depending on how your LSD feels that morning.

 

Unless you have a non LSD equipped car, in which case you are only 2WD. One front, one rear. It is VERY hard to stop 3 wheels on a Subaru, and snow and ice isn't going to do it.

The ride height of a Legacy will though .

^^^ As I posted in another thread,"With snow tires, front, rear LSD & center DCCD. The only thing stopping me is ground clearance & drive's nerve."http://legacygt.com/forums/../images/smilies/cool.gifhttp://legacygt.com/forums/../images/smilies/lol.gif

 

Mike

I've only had my Spec B for 2 months, but I can say with no reservations that tires are everything. I have summer tires, the car will go but has no control. It likes to go sideways with all 4 tires slipping. Therefore, it has been parked through all the snow days. I have an old Chevy pickup 2wd with some left over BFG Allterrain KO's on it, and it goes like it has 4wd.

It really seems a shame to have a car that is that good in snow but the worst tires possible.

Two questions concerning this topic.

 

1st. Did subaru keep the same AWD drive system from 05-09. Were there some small changes.

 

2nd. Here we get some snow packed and slushy highways and streets often. I noticed that the car kinda moves left to right the entire time going in a straight line when say the right wheels have traction and the left wheels are in snow. Kinda a wierd sensation.

 

BTW. i run dedicated michelin snow tires.

On a side note, has anyone done comparison between subaru awd and acura sh-awd?

Driving along at 60mph on the highway I dont feel any safer than I did in any other car.

 

I do feel safer knowing that I am less likely to get stuck if I am forced to stop tho..

 

Want to be impressed? Find a very steep hill covered in snow and climb it.

 

 

 

Ha want to be impressed??

 

Find a very steep hill covered in snow and try to go down and stop!!! I'll take stopping over not getting stuck any day.

 

funny thing happens when you can stop and turn when you want to..... you wont get stuck anywhere

 

winter tires FTW I mean it is winter right? troll through the accident thread and find out how many at fault accidents could have been avoided with a few hundred bucks in tires.

 

I paid $600 for my Hankook i-Pikes brand new. Whats your deductable?? mines $500 pretty damn close to a set of tires, plus i wont have to drive an Echo while they fix my car(which would be worth less too)

 

the funny thing is -----> someones going to argue whith my statement:spin:

On a side note, has anyone done comparison between subaru awd and acura sh-awd?

yup. think CR-V with some extra stability control. We have a regular cutomer with a turbo acura rdx. rear asist when the fronts have no traction. helps you get moving at best, completely un predictable engagment. They are running ice tires.

 

POS system in my oppinion. Audi/VW system is next best to ours in my oppinion, and not worth the extra $

Two questions concerning this topic.

 

1st. Did subaru keep the same AWD drive system from 05-09. Were there some small changes.

 

2nd. Here we get some snow packed and slushy highways and streets often. I noticed that the car kinda moves left to right the entire time going in a straight line when say the right wheels have traction and the left wheels are in snow. Kinda a wierd sensation.

 

BTW. i run dedicated michelin snow tires.

 

I notice the same left to right feeling in my LGT. Kind of unnerving.

yup. think CR-V with some extra stability control. We have a regular cutomer with a turbo acura rdx. rear asist when the fronts have no traction. helps you get moving at best, completely un predictable engagment. They are running ice tires.

 

POS system in my oppinion. Audi/VW system is next best to ours in my oppinion, and not worth the extra $

The VW and Audi DO NOT use the same AWD system. VW still uses Haldex because of the transverse engine layout. Only Audis with transverse engines get the Quattro AWD (so not the A3 or TT.)

 

The SH-AWD is supposed to be pretty damn amazing (so I'm told.) The SH-AWD is a torque vectoring system. It is capable of moving power to each will individually as it's needed. It's real advantage shows in hard cornering when it automatically moves power to the outer wheel before there is even slip. SH-AWD differs by vehicle application as well, with the RL having the most advanced version. It's true that it is still based on a FWD vehicle platform at the end of the day though. It really does seem like an overly complex system just to try and control the disadvantages of FWD. I've been told they can keep the vehicle neutral/induce form slight oversteer, but it doesn't compare to a neutral RWD vehicle. I bet is Acura built a vehicle on a true RWD/AWD platform, there would be no need to compensate the outside wheel with more power to control oversteer. I really don't like Acura/Honda because of the FWD boring vehicles. I haven't put any seat time into the new SH-AWD, so it's all hearsay. Here is a Wiki entry on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-AWD

Great info thanx! I've only ever driven this one, and its been slippery out every time, I know im much, much more happy with my LGT!