New Stereo Install

I've actually held off on posting this, as I have not been pleased with the outcome and I'm still working through some issues.

 

First, a list of the products...

 

JL Cleansweep

2 Eclipse EA4000s

JL 10w1v2-4 currently (actually ordered a 10w3, however not in yet with current amp configuration)

Focal 165KP front

Stock rears

iPod in center console connected via Imp, from Sic.

 

Comments to follow in next post...

 

Here are the few pics that I've got...

 

 

 

 

 

More pics...

 

Stealthy Install of Cleansweep knob...

 

Opens nicely with perfect distance by hand to adjust volume...

 

Looks real nice at night (aux input goes red)...

 

iPod stores in center console...

 

Focal tweeter location... So damn bright/harsh that I taped them up!

So, here's what I don't like and will get fixed or will start returning sh&t...

 

The Focal 165KPs sounded great in the store. I originally went for the Manville Smith recommendation... however, CarToys doesn't stock the higher end JL speakers.

 

I asked that they mount the tweeters across the mids, but when I picked up the car they were in the stock location... Was told it was because the size of the mid and cone would not allow for that mount without major modifications.

 

I have turned the tweeters down to -7dB and they are still way too harsh and in your face. Not to mention things just seem off... not musical, like they should. This should be improved by moving to original requested position.

 

Originally, I wanted JL amps, too. But, after some head to head comparisons using the Focals in the shop, I ended up liking the combination of the Eclipse with Focals better. However, a warning to all you stereo neophites like myself...

 

What you hear in the showroom is NOT going to sound the same in your car!

 

Now, on to the Cleansweep. I think it is a nice product, but it really does require some overall product planning to ensure a complete and musical setup.

 

Here's my complaint... and this is just my situation (hoping to be remedied)... at low volume listening levels all that can be heard is tweeter. Period. At loud to very loud levels the sub will fill in and the mids pick up... but, the tweeters get harsher and harsher. My ears hurt... it is actually a relief to turn the stereo completely off!

 

Also, any adjustment you make for the head unit does not apply to the aux in... in my case an iPod. Same issue here... no mids or lows at lower volume (Cleansweep issue I think) and screeching highs (Focal issue).

 

Anyways, I am really sorry for this being more of a complaint thread, but after dropping $3k+ I was REALLY expecting and hoping for more.

 

Seriously, I thinking of scraping the whole thing and going back to stock... I guess it wasn't that bad after all.

Did car toys make that sub box??

Did car toys make that sub box??

 

Yes.... I'm open to any comments, too.

What are your impressions of the clean sweep? And if you don't mind sharing, what did cartoys charge to build the sub box?

any good shop will take the speakers back and put you into another set. The sound board is nothing like the car environment.

 

I set my Quart Premium separates at -3db to start, but quickly dropped them to -6. Too much. At this setting, they are smooth. I did a very similar install and setup as yours.

 

FWIW, I have two extra sets of MBQuart Reference bridge mount separates sitting in the garage, if you want to try out a set...PM me.

Hmmm, I've got a JL 300/4 running to Polk db6500 and 650's up front in stock locations. Granted, I have the amp running almost minimum gains, but I have the attenuation on the head unit set to pretty much flat. I don't see how they are that bright.

. I don't see how they are that bright.

 

different speakers and different amp than 'rtp' - what's your basis for comparison?

Also, what gain do you have the CleanSweep recognizing from the stock head unit? in other words, what is the stock head unit's volume set at?

different speakers and different amp than 'rtp' - what's your basis for comparison?

 

I have just never seen something that harsh in person. I've had lots of different components in 4 different cars now.

Dammit, this makes me mad when a dealer screws up a perfectly good plan. The solution to your problem is simple... USE GOOD COAXIALS!!!

 

Demand that they swap those components for a good set of coaxials. Make them order the XR650-CXi's for you or use another brand, but get those tweeters out of the stock locations. The stock tweeter locations have a hard early reflection problem with the windshield that exaggerates brightness and smears imaging (and the Focals are on the bright side of the spectrum to begin with). The CleanSweep is not responsible for the sound of your speaker system... it simply gives you a flat freq. response to start with.

 

If they refuse to special order the XR's call me (1-888-JLAUDIO... ask for Manville).

 

 

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

As for soundboards... you are absolutely correct that a soundboard will not tell you how a speaker system will sound in your car. Speakers that sound balanced in the car generally sound pretty mellow on the soundboard. Anything that has pronounced, aggressive midrange or high-end on a soundboard will almost alway tear your face off in the car unless you apply lots of equalization.

wow. manville, great to see you on this forum i am more used to seeing your post on carsound forums hehe

 

b

What you hear in the showroom is NOT going to sound the same in your car!

Feeling the pain for you, especially since I helped coax you into it. You're right, the showroom sounds different, but should be pretty close once it's all set up properly - detail in the install is everything, especially with high end gear!

 

A few things -

 

Seeing the Cartoys install makes me wish we had gotten the crew together for the weekend & done this ourselves after all, I think we could have done better. Amp rack is OK, could use some prettying up & finishing touches - they didn't even paint it? Nor did they dig deep on hinge selection or stashing wires. No biggie tho.

 

Sub box - for custom FG, they could have made it far more aesthetically pleasing, but it's the sound that matters. I still think 150W is underpowered.

 

Nice pants.

 

Doors - I think sealing up that last hole below the cables would be beneficial to midbass & help your low-volume issues a bit.

 

 

Here's the deal - you've got the makings for a kickass setup there, it's just a matter of getting it dialed in. You're close. Obviously the biggie is the tweeters - fix that and your bad system will become amazing.

 

I just mounted Focal K2P's in my front doors and flush-mounted the tweeters in the forward corner - yes, drilled out the door panel. It's working very well, a big step up from the quarts.

 

While that may not be your cup of tea, I think the next best option is a simple kick panel pod for the tweeter alone. It shouldn't be expensive to produce & would provide the best SQ and be stealth. It would take some auditioning to get the right placement dialed, but worth it. You may be averse to spending more money at this point, but you've come this far & you're VERY close, go the last mile.

 

Some of you that do or have done this kind of thing - your thoughts on custom tweeter kicks? 16PSI, PGT, Manville?

 

Or the simplest option, changing front speakers. I'd deter you from this only b/c I'm in love with the Focal sound. I don't think any comman coax will get you the same SQ, but there's plenty of good ones out there. PGT's Quarts may be a good idea, haven't heard the JL's, Boston's aren't bad either. You can use my former Quarts if you want to try that approach before commiting, they're in the garage right now. Hang in there.

Looking good, I know it's a pain but I would either paint the amp rack or carpet it. I take it that you can still have access to your spare? Give us pics of the completed product.

Rick

Putting tweeters in the kickpanels is infinitely better than the factory tweeter location... place them as close the door mids as possible and don't angle them back towards the listeners too severely. You could also custom mount them on the doors near the mids... or you could use a high-end coaxial and not cut the car up at all.

absolutely...manville, where do you have the speakers monted in the demo lgt? i assume the stock locations?

 

just looking at the shape of hte dash and the general area, it would see that kicks would work decently well in a LGT...well either way, i am about to find out

 

b

Seeing the Cartoys install makes me wish we had gotten the crew together for the weekend & done this ourselves after all, I think we could have done better. Amp rack is OK, could use some prettying up & finishing touches - they didn't even paint it? Nor did they dig deep on hinge selection or stashing wires.

 

Sub box - for custom FG, they could have made it far more aesthetically pleasing, but it's the sound that matters. I still think 150W is underpowered.

I completely agree. The majority of the install was just ok... there wasn't much in the way of special touches... except the Cleansweep nob location. The amp rack is heavy and VERY plain jane. The sub box is has an interesting look... and I have nothing to compare it to for sound quality.

 

I was hoping this would be a system I could show off a little... I mean, when you spend this kind of dough, you want both SQ and a little pizzazz... even if it is a stealth install. When it is all said and done (assuming I don't return everthing back to stock) I am going to redo the amp rack.

 

 

Nice pants.

Hah!! I wondered who'd notice! I took those last pics last night prior to hitting the sack!

 

 

 

The CleanSweep is not responsible for the sound of your speaker system... it simply gives you a flat freq. response to start with.

Definately not saying that the CS is the problem. There is no way so many folks could have a beautiful sounding system and it be the cause... It is just a compilation of all the hardware I have, tweeter location, and tune that is giving me a mediocre sounding system.

 

In regards to the iPod connection... I have all my mp3s at 192kb, but with the current setup every song comes across as very bright/tinny... even more than stuff coming out of the HU (CD or FM). There is no mid and only large bass at volume.

 

Trust me Manville, I would have (and still would) give my left arm to have just handed to car over to you and your team and gone completely JL.

 

 

 

Hmmm, I've got a JL 300/4 running to Polk db6500 and 650's up front in stock locations. Granted, I have the amp running almost minimum gains, but I have the attenuation on the head unit set to pretty much flat. I don't see how they are that bright.

I have Snell E's at home with Polks for my Center and surrounds. I love them. If anybody here in town actually had the sr6500's I would have gone that route. My gain on the Focals is at almost rock bottom, but with the Titanium tweeter it is just not right, especially in the stock location. I have had NUMEROUS people sit in my car and we have tweeked and re-tweeked... and they ALL say the same thing I do. It's like they are slashing the inside of your ears.

 

For the past week I have been happier just turning the damn thing off and listening to my snow tires drone on the pavement. It is more soothing.

And one other thing - if you want a 5-minute mod that will make the current system much more bearable until you figure out the long-term fix, disconnect the tweeters at the crossover & connect the mid-driver wires to the crossover inputs - the idea being to run the mids at full range. You'll lose most of the treble but that sounds like an asset at this point.

 

Should only require a small phillips head to do this.

just an example.....tweet down low (no hotlink since it's larger than most pics):

 

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/stereo/done2.jpg

 

There's no room to mount the tweeter close to the mid behind the door panel. You'd have to flush the tweeter into the panel right above - awkward since the factory location is still visible.

 

In previous cars, I have put the tweeter in the trim panel in the kick panel area, or used some backstrap to 'hang the tweeter' over the mid (old Quart Q's). There's sufficient room to do this in the LGT - the shop just took the easy way out vs. doing what you asked for.

Here's my speaker locations...

 

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2685/speakerlocations5ww.th.jpg

Here's a shot of mine - same tweeter as yours flush mounted. It does fit fine. Not perfectly stealth, but I had thought that given the big phase plug on the mid I could never fit it as a coax.

 

Now I'm kicking myself for not realizing the phase plug doesn't move with the speaker cone. It also turns out that the tweeter can be removed from its housing and it's then roughly the size of a peppermint patty, so it should EASILY fit over the woofer without cutting the door panel. Good news for you, bad for me!

 

This is now an easy fix - go see Cartoys.

^ just paint the tweeter grills and it will be stealth.

 

the phase plugs on my Quarts twist out and tweeter mounts twist in. Seems like a good option, thus my decision in buying them.

I'm terrible with paint like that, it always scratches off & looks like crap. Any tips? How do you do this right? What's the best type of paint to use?