careercadaver Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Before I begin I want to state that I know the coils I have are not high quality, they are in fact an entry level coil set-up and not comparable in ride or quality to the other set-ups I am considering. I do not with for this to be a "bash the cheap coilover thread" these were on the car when I bought them and in all honesty I see nothing wrong with them for the coin. I am however weighing options and longevity does weigh in. With current road conditions I cant expect a lot out of a coil and though mine are functioning fine they leave something to be desired in terms of comfort. Car currently has about 4" of ground clearance but planned on raising it up a little. GOAL is for added comfort as I drive about 500mi/wk. while still remining responsive. Ride was fine when it was just local driving but I often have an infant in the car and the ride is getting a bit old. I currently have: BC BR Coilovers Whiteline ALK I will be adding the following come spring. Whiteline HD 20MM Adjustable Front Sway Bar Whiteline HD 20MM Rear Non Adjustable Sway Bar Whiteline HD Front Endlinks Whiteline HD Adjustable Rear Endlinks AVO Rear Sway Bar Reinforcement Bracket Option 1: ($365) Swift Spring Upgrade to BC BR Set-up. Thinking 5/7. Though I have read that spring rates should correspond to the sway bar sizes. I already own the sways so I could use some input on spring rates if I'm off in my thinking. Option 2: ($1000) Koni Inserts w/ TBD Spring set-up...possibly even a GC Set-up. I do not have stock suspension so there is some added expense in considering this option. Option 3: ($1200) Bilstein Shocks w/ TBD Spring set-up. Open to spring suggestions...I am still reading on these. The ride seems appealing but the lack of adjustability is leading me away. Option 4: ($900) Tokiko Shocks...TBD Spring set-up. Adjustability a plus. I hear great thinks about the STI Pink combo. *Keep in mind I am not saying BC's are great quality or that they really compare to a spring/strut combo. I am weighing options, from an economical standpoint, and would like input from those that have had experience with these set-up as opposed to those with the option that unless it's a 2K+ coil its a waste of time. I know what they are and agree but replacing them to run them in salt is illogical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If it were me, this would be a no-brainer, I would go with option #2. While some people have had positive results with Swifts on their BC's, the springs are only one aspect of the problem with BC's. You said you got your car with them, and you still have them, so I'm going to assume they are well past 50% of their service life, if not much more. BC dampers are not serviceable, you simply replace them. Throwing on a set of softer Swift springs is not going to all of a sudden make BC's ride like a cadillac, especially with damper bodies that have some mileage on them. I also find it quite illogical to drop nearly $400 to upgrade a set of coils that cost barely more than double that. When you buy expensive coilovers you are not buying expensive springs, your money is really going towards valving and engineering, nice springs are simply a requirement at that level. Koni inserts are very comparable to RCE T1's or KWv2's in terms of valving and damping characteristics, only in a fixed perch design. Springs do not give you ride quality, proper damping does. Additionally, if you put softer springs on the BC's, you will go through a larger travel range than stiffer springs, but BC's dampers do not have this range, so instead you will be hitting the bumpstops more frequently. One of the main reasons BC, and all other coilovers like them, put on stiff springs is to reduce the suspension travel to a range closer to the damper body they're supplying, which simply isn't enough travel to create a comfortable ride. Get Koni's and springs of your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks for the input. Leaning that direction as well...just going to have to piece the set-up and wait till spring as my time is so limited. Maybe I'll do a Ground Control set-up on these instead...best of both worlds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If it were me, this would be a no-brainer, I would go with option #2. While some people have had positive results with Swifts on their BC's, the springs are only one aspect of the problem with BC's. You said you got your car with them, and you still have them, so I'm going to assume they are well past 50% of their service life, if not much more. BC dampers are not serviceable, you simply replace them. Throwing on a set of softer Swift springs is not going to all of a sudden make BC's ride like a cadillac, especially with damper bodies that have some mileage on them. I also find it quite illogical to drop nearly $400 to upgrade a set of coils that cost barely more than double that. When you buy expensive coilovers you are not buying expensive springs, your money is really going towards valving and engineering, nice springs are simply a requirement at that level. Koni inserts are very comparable to RCE T1's or KWv2's in terms of valving and damping characteristics, only in a fixed perch design. Springs do not give you ride quality, proper damping does. Additionally, if you put softer springs on the BC's, you will go through a larger travel range than stiffer springs, but BC's dampers do not have this range, so instead you will be hitting the bumpstops more frequently. One of the main reasons BC, and all other coilovers like them, put on stiff springs is to reduce the suspension travel to a range closer to the damper body they're supplying, which simply isn't enough travel to create a comfortable ride. Get Koni's and springs of your choice. +1 I would add more but Konis + Springs are the best route for a street driven car hands down. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well, I posted a WTB for junk struts. I also have someone I may try to work out a trade...coils for Bilstein's and Springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Leaning toward Koni's, Epic Springs with Whiteline Com C Top Hats (KCA409)... BC Swift upgrade is out... Bilstein's won't get me as low as I want to be... Couldn't really find a lot of info/reviews on Tokiko set-ups... The springs I've landed on are pretty soft. I believe they are close to stock spring rates. Hoping I can offset them with the dampening of the Koni struts and find some balance. It seems like most of the set-ups that were aesthetically pleasing have all been discontinued...COBB/Eibach...etc. but from what understand the Epics are rebranded Eibach Pro Kits. Do Koni's sit lower than the same spring on a stock strut? Seeing some variance in pictures and from what I remember from the Impreza world that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Any input on springs would be appreciated. I just purchased my donor struts for Koni's...gonna post up my BC's tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbits Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I was thinking about BCs and ISC N1s but I'm not planning on going super low... inch or an inch and a half drop is all I want which is easy with springs. Aside from no adjustability, what are the downsides to the Bilstein HDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 You'll need SpecB top hats, and because the SpecB comes already lower the lowering rates associated with each spring is different. A spring that will get you 1" on a LGT Strut might not lower the Bilstein set-up much, if at all...from what I've gathered the main advantage to swapping out springs on Bilsteins is changing your spring rate. They are a fine option for your goals, but from what I've been reading Koni inserts are an all around stronger set-up w/ adjustable dampening...making it more customizable set-up in that area as well as being valves to handle being lowered. If you go this route I would just chose a spring that has a bit more aggressive of a drop than you are looking for. That and search around...a lot of guys are running Bilstein's on different springs set-ups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Careercadaver, skip the COMC strut tops, stick with either the Spec B ones or new OEM ones. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Can I run SpecB top hats on LGT struts w/ an LGT specific spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yes the springs are the same for Spec B or LGT... The difference is that to run Spec B tops you will need an additional washer to go under your conical washer in order to take up extra space so the top nut can fully tighten down on the strut rod. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Mike, you don't like the WL Com-C top hats? I've never used them personally, but have always been curious. Extra caster and a bit of camber are nice. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 It appears that fredbeans does not currently have Epics in stock... :/ Not sure I can wait around with the weather changing very fast here... Might be looking into the Koni/H&R spring combo...http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Koni&model=Sport+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&group=Sport+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&partNum=1140-1671&autoMake=Subaru&autoModel=Legacy+Sedan+2.5+GT&autoYear=2005&autoModClar=Limited I know this price is on the expensive side...I am looking into it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 So, apparently H&R does not divulge spring rates. They say there are too many factors that play into suspension to just throw out at a random number. From what I was told via the H&R rep they make design their set-ups to be stiffer than stock but still maintain a comfortable ride. Which doesn't sound half bad...going to search around for others with similar set-ups to see if reviews agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 So...my options have changes...looking to be a little on the low side but maintain comfort...as much as I can. For this reason I've decided to go with Koni Inserts... 1) Used COBB springs. 20k on them...awaiting pics. I like the stance of these best. 2) New Eibach Pro Kit. There's a member here clearing out some inventory and the warranty is still in place on the springs. 3) H&R combo kit listed a few posts back. This is looking to be my least expensive option...but I've not seen anyone run it... Also, I'm looking at running KYB boots bump stops and rear top hats/OE fronts. Haven't heard anything bad about their components but I figured I'd post up just in case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo2701 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I would say eibach springs. They are what come on my ohlins and I know they are a highly reputable spring company for almost every car application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Eibach or Epics (same product) are great springs. In actuality most springs come from only a few factories around the world. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Just picked up the Eibach Pro Kit per suggestion. I'll report back with pics and impressions. I'm certain I'll be happy as long as they ride better than my BC's...and I'm certain they will. Thanks again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I am curious why the Bilstein HDs weren't recommended? Is it because of the adjustability that the Koni's have? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Non Adjustable Non Lifetime Warranty Requires different strut mounts in front More expensive if you can DIY the Konis -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/17/e75b675952193460c6d5a9d0ce4fb530.jpg http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/17/19d1434d954f89851890054dc3e47871.jpg http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/17/2811e6ca2904f12447736b112a476fde.jpg Let the fun begin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Boing! -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Struts are on the car!! Drove around the block and the car feels like it makes far better contact with the road. This is likely to do with my poor alignment...in any case I'll be driving quite a bit this weekend so once the springs settle I'll give a more accurate review but this far they are stiff but surprisingly comfortable. It will be nice to get some different tires on it too...these are worn pretty heavily... http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/24/4d2a76ca71930b78fdc48ce593c35bf2.jpg Before: http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/24/9d73b5a82182b078aac157d5a9b25bed.jpg http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/24/d98f2bf6e22dbf39756d3f503fb68d0b.jpg After: http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/24/3b4390024ef3a2182cc6eaf7ea4ea0e3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Put about 100mi on this far...starting to settle. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/24/a3c17c25fb9def55d28643b124bb38a5.jpg So far ride is immensely better. Hoping it gets a little more comfortable after they fully settle and an alignment but this far I'm thrilled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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