Need advise on Service dept. comments

Alright I HATE my 05 Wagon "i".

It has TONS of issues...

I just called the dealer and listed them off... and here's what they told me.

A. Rattles

Windshield.

They say: No problem they'll fix

Clutch

They say: WILL NOT FIX 1 year 10,000 mile coverage

B. Oil Consumption

I burn 1 qt every 3k miles...

They say: That's better than should be expected... WTF... they say that

it should burn 1 qt ever 1k miles????

C. Stinks

EVERYTHING Smells from the car... Brakes, Cats, Clutch, Oil, Gear oil, AND

other unidentified smells

They say:

they'll look

D. Soaked roof/A pillar

This morning noticed a stain on the a pillar went to wipe it and its soaked

all the way up and down it's coming from the roof.

They say:

It's probobly a clogged drain (I don't have a sunroof WTF?)

E. Radio is haunted

They say it's a good thing I video taped it. MAYBE they'll cover it

F. Idle is PURE sh!t

They already looked at it and told me it's fine... NO ONE has EVER been in

my car at a stop w/o comenting AND I QUOTE "WTF is wrong with your

car"

G. Broken Trim pieces

They say: they'll look

WTF subauru... I want to return this car SOOOOO bad. Problem is it's a little over a year old has 18k miles and is a 5 speed wagon... chances are I'll get screwed HARD if I try to trade it in. And I don't think I qualify for the lemon law.

I've been driving my 93 civic with 206 thousand miles DAILY since I got it re-registered and insured becuase it runs better than my 05 legacy.

Mainly looking for comments on the oil consumption... Are they kidding and if not WTF is their excuse for burning 1qt ever 1k miles???? Is this a freaking rotory engine? or maybe a 2 stroke?

OH and apparently Bosch isn't a quality company... I said I've been using their filters and the girl is like... "OH you should use subaru filters the bosch filters don't have a valve"... I'm like WTF are you talking about ALL oil filters have a pressure diversion valve otherwise they'd blow up and that valve isn't doing your engine ANY favours... all it does is stop that oil from being filtered to prevent the oil filter from exploding if theres too much oil pressure for it's case to handle.

THEN she says that "If you put bosch spark plugs in that car it won't accept them" WORD FOR WORD... Is that supposed to be a joke?

Don't the get shipped with bosch platnums???

Beyond that bosch makes damn near ALL OEM parts for geman cars when it comes to ignition and fuel parts.

I'd honestly get a Lemon case started. It really sounds like there are some true problems with your vehicle, and, of course, you are clearly not satisfied with either the vehicle nor your dealer service, and that these two factors are probably feeding into each other in a viscious cycle.

Specific issues, and I must apologize here in that I do not have sufficient experience to address all of your concerns.....

B - oil consumption:

I am honestly not sure if 1 quart per 1K miles is considered excessive or even outside the norms by Subaru. This is an issue you should pursue with SoA, to find out exactly what their standards are for excessive consumption.

Additionally, although it is not my personal belief nor has been my personal experience, I do know of many enthusiasts who do maintain that 1 quart per 1K miles is, and I quote, "within norms, especially for a turbocharged engine."

My specific questions to you, relating to this issue, are (a) when did this consumption start, (b) could you please describe your break-in of the vehicle as well as describe your general driving habits, and © what motor oil are you using now, and what have you tried - and furthermore, do any of them seem to lessen/increase consumption.

F - rough idle:

Could this be related to your oil consumption? Do you notice the idle worsening as your mileage per oil top-off/change increases? Has any change in brand and/or viscosity of motor oil caused an increase or decrease in idle roughness?

C - various smells:

Used motor oil doesn't carry the best smell. Used gear/differential/tranny oil carries what many consider to be an absolutely atrocious smell. This is normal, and happens on all vehicles.

Burning coolant also doesn't carry a particularly pleasant smell.

Cats - have you in any way modified the stock exhaust system?

Brakes - have your dealer change the pads - see if this at least cures at least this problem. Certainly, brakes do carry their own odor, but from what little experience I have, they've gotta be pretty cooked in order to produce such odor, even "spirited" street-driving should not produce an issue here.

---

Best of luck with getting resolutions from your dealer, and/or SoA. Still, if I were you, I'd be tempted to incite the Lemon Law.

----

PS: I have yet to need to change plugs on Winky, but from my DSM background, I can say for certain that turbocharged DSMs do *not* like Bosch Platinums. The car "rejecting" the plug, in this case, would pretty much sum it up very well!

Thanks for the input

Most importantly I'm NOT TURBO

Yeah I've had problems with bosch platinum plugs in a couple different cars... platnum isn't exactly the best conductor... I def prefer I nice cheap traditional plug with MUCH more frequent changes over a long lasting plug. But to draw a conclusion about their filters from ONE kind of spark plug they make seems rediculous. Beyond that EVERYTHING I read says the bosch premium are top notch filters...

As far as break in... I babied the crap out of it... NEVER took it over 4k till there was 1k miles never took it over 4-5k till it hit 10k miles.

Used normal oil for first 2-3 oil changes then switched to mobil 1 at like 10k.

Idle is pretty much always lumpy.. I mean it's not like a freaking muscle car but it's noticable NOBODY who's been in the car hasn't said something about it.

The smells... I have NO mods whatsoever... NOTHING. and again it's non turbo so... who knows but the car wreaks... I don't even like driving my kids around in it cuz I'm scared that they're inhaling too much crap.

I'm def. familiar with all the smells of various fluid I worked in the service industry from 16-26 (minus a couple years working in resturants) and have been working on cars since I was 14 and still do to this day ( not like I do my oil changes, last job I did was changing my transmissions on my civic.)

The other thing that gets my goat is that I complained about one thing to the mechanic directly and he said "that doesn't sound right" then when I went to pick it up they had me drive it with him in the car and he was like... no thats normal. WTF... which is it... strange or normal?

Anyway... thanks for the input... looks like I'm prob. going to sit on the car for another year or so and try to keep the miles rediculously low then get a good deal for it on a trade in or private party sale... Who knows.

Sadest part is I still want a LGT but I'm SOOO scared to buy another subaru now.

A. Rattles

Windshield.

They say: No problem they'll fix

Good!

Clutch

They say: WILL NOT FIX 1 year 10,000 mile coverage

Wrong! Clutch is covered for 3yrs/36,000 miles for "normal wear & tear".

B. Oil Consumption

I burn 1 qt every 3k miles...

They say: That's better than should be expected... WTF... they say that

it should burn 1 qt ever 1k miles????

That is actually correct, the acceptable limits are:

non-turbo = 1 qt per 3,000 miles

turbo = 1 qt per 1,500 miles

C. Stinks

EVERYTHING Smells from the car... Brakes, Cats, Clutch, Oil, Gear oil, AND

other unidentified smells

They say:

they'll look

Ummm, things do smell....not sure what the problem is.

D. Soaked roof/A pillar

This morning noticed a stain on the a pillar went to wipe it and its soaked

all the way up and down it's coming from the roof.

They say:

It's probobly a clogged drain (I don't have a sunroof WTF?)

There are still drains from the side window moldings, or worst case the window wasn't sealed properly and it will get replaced.

E. Radio is haunted

They say it's a good thing I video taped it. MAYBE they'll cover it

SOA is aware of this problem.

F. Idle is PURE sh!t

They already looked at it and told me it's fine... NO ONE has EVER been in

my car at a stop w/o comenting AND I QUOTE "WTF is wrong with your

car"

Is this your first Subaru? Horizontally opposed engines feel quite a bit different than V or straight blocks.

G. Broken Trim pieces

They say: they'll look

Again, 3yrs/36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. If they are a "failed" part they should be replaced. If you broke them yourself, they won't be.

WTF subauru... I want to return this car SOOOOO bad. Problem is it's a little over a year old has 18k miles and is a 5 speed wagon... chances are I'll get screwed HARD if I try to trade it in. And I don't think I qualify for the lemon law.

 

I've been driving my 93 civic with 206 thousand miles DAILY since I got it re-registered and insured becuase it runs better than my 05 legacy.

 

Mainly looking for comments on the oil consumption... Are they kidding and if not WTF is their excuse for burning 1qt ever 1k miles???? Is this a freaking rotory engine? or maybe a 2 stroke?

 

OH and apparently Bosch isn't a quality company... I said I've been using their filters and the girl is like... "OH you should use subaru filters the bosch filters don't have a valve"... I'm like WTF are you talking about ALL oil filters have a pressure diversion valve otherwise they'd blow up and that valve isn't doing your engine ANY favours... all it does is stop that oil from being filtered to prevent the oil filter from exploding if theres too much oil pressure for it's case to handle.

 

THEN she says that "If you put bosch spark plugs in that car it won't accept them" WORD FOR WORD... Is that supposed to be a joke?

 

Don't the get shipped with bosch platnums???

 

Beyond that bosch makes damn near ALL OEM parts for geman cars when it comes to ignition and fuel parts.

Dealers always will recomend Subaru factory parts as they are "specifically engineered for the vehicle". Most of the time any quality aftermarket is fine for the car, but in the case of Bosch Platinum Spark plugs they do have a slight issue in Subaru engines as their electrodes protrude far enough into the combustion chamber that they sometimes strike the top of the piston and get bent. This usually causes a misfire condition. FYYI the factory spark plugs are all NGK brand.

Hum.....

For non-turbo, that's indeed quite a bit of oil consumed, and like brother Opie cited, above what's "normal" - are you getting any leaks?

And definitely, with regard to drawing conclusions about a certain brand based on just one of their products, that's truly pure bull. Besides, it's also true that other cars do just fine on Bosch plugs, just not our Scoobys or DSMs. However, it seems that Opie has covered yet another technical point - even then, though, I find what your service rep. has said to be rather disturbing.

As for the smells - that's truly mysterious, although definitely not un-reported among our group. Have you tried switching to Top-Tier gasolines? I'm wondering if that may help the cat-smell a bit.

Lumpy-idle...definitely, if this is your first Scooby, have a sit-down in another (preferably the same make/model) Scooby. That little "rumble" takes a little to get used to. However, you're saying that others have all commented on the weirdness of your idle - and that would lead me to believe that something truly is awry, combined with your other noted troubles.

Definitely go the Lemon route if you feel the need, but I'd actually recommend that you first try another dealership to see if you get better service.

Again, best of luck, and I, too, hope you don't give up on Scooby's due to your singular run-in with some really bad-luck here. It truly seems that you're among the few who experience such a long list of troubles, and that overall, these Leggies are not bad vehicles.

After reading all the problem rants on this board since June when I bought my LGTDmt, I'm just waiting for everything on my car to go to hell. This is an early build (05/04) which probably set on the lot for quite a while...around here, most likely because it's a MT. Anyway, I love this car and am up to 7000+ miles. It hasn't used a drop of oil (first oil change at 2000K, second at 5000K), hasn't had the all consuming stuttering problem, has no rattles or squeaks, the cooling fans and radio work correctly, the ILL5 problem hasn't occured, I've had no water leaking into the interior, the floor mat hook hasn't broken and my seat lumbar support works well...did I miss anything? Oh yes, I've learned to deal with the gas filler door deal.

The only problem I've had is the wavy rubber seal on a windshield replacement that I started a thread about a few days ago. And, I agree, the ACC/heating unit could be better...but that's easy to deal with too and certainly isn't a deal breaker.

My worry is that one day soon all of these problems will pop up and I'll have a really bad day. Should I be worried?

Mine also sat for a long time on the lot, and it is a 10/04 build.

So far I have smelled the clutch, but only in heavy stop-n-go traffic. It has studdered a little bit, but not enough to annoy me. I also got my windshield replaced, and the wavy gasket happened. Going to get it replaced again. The trim/bezel part under the radio that covers the stickshift became loose, but they just popped it back in. Has not happened again.

Hopefully I will not have many troubles, but I love the car so far!

X

Make LEMON LAW YR BEST FRIEND

Take all this to SOA and dont speak to a Customer Service Rep, DONT speak to a Customer Service Manager go to the highest point you can. Dont get upset, just let them know all the issues, what was said and the dealer involved. Express yr concerns as u have here and Im sure that SOA will make it right.

Please keep us in the loop and all the very best.

Ada///M.

My worry is that one day soon all of these problems will pop up and I'll have a really bad day. Should I be worried?

NO - at 7K miles you are probably good to go. Our cars are very reliable...generally. Yes, some of our cars have issues (like the dreaded stutter) but these are issues that are usually noticeable very early on.

I would suspect that at 7K miles, what you see is what you got

Count yourself among the fortunate that you do not have the stutter (though while it bothers me sometimes, the pure enjoyment of driving this car far outweighs the displeasure of the stutter - in fact, the damn turbo lag of my WRX bothered me more ...and I loved that car too!).

No car is perfect, and ALL the imperfections of our cars will be spoken of here. You have to put things in perspective.

ENJOY YOUR CAR AND DON'T WORRY THAT EVERY LITTLE ISSUE THAT EVERY POSTER HERE HAS WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME YOUR ISSUE -(sorry for shouting)

Thanks again for all the input everyone...

As far as the roof leak. I'm SURE it's from the roof rail mounts (it's a wagon) and the water is starting from above my head and going all the way down the A pillar... On top of it I just took a look before dropping it at the dealer AND... The pass. side is wet too and the driver side is wet ALL the way down to the floor now including little pools/puddles in/on/near the fuse panel etc... it was dripping off my hood release latch... so the water is def. in the dash.. But there is no way the water is coming from the window... and again... no sunroof.

As far as the smells... It's terrible seriously... the cat reaks every time I get on the highway clutch smells terrible any time I shift at higher than 4k.

Anyway thanks for all the input and I'm going to be contacting SOA and trying another dealer in the next couple weeks.

I'll post up with anything I hear from the dealer.

Oh and...

Dealer is subaru only. Highly rated apparently too but I think that's just cuz they sell a lot of cars.

I am indeed the one who had the car shipped with 2 bad o2's

My worry is that one day soon all of these problems will pop up and I'll have a really bad day. Should I be worried?

Winky's 06/04 build-date.

Her first 6K or so miles were as a demo.

She's now nearing 12K.

Not one problem to speak of, and I'm currently at about thirty variously-aggressive launches on the stock clutch, at typical "Cobb Stage II" power levels (I'm on an ECUTek custom tune by DynoFlash) - not even clutch stink.

Sure, my A/C heat/cold cycles on/off like everyone else, but that really doesn't bother me much, as heck, I figure that it's just one of the vehicle's computers trying too hard. I've been lucky, I believe - this is the ONLY thing that's been off 'bout Winky.

As with *any* other purchase, some of us get lucky, others, not so much.

OK Dropped the car off last night at the dealer and have talked to them since...

I'll spare them the part where they told me a bunch of incorrect crap and then recanted.

Here is the new list of dealer comments... not bad at all imo.

A. Rattles

Windshield.

They say: No problem they'll fix

Clutch

They say: WILL NOT FIX 1 year 10,000 mile coverage

NO UPDATE Forgot to press the issue.

B. Oil Consumption

I burn 1 qt every 3k miles...

They say: That's better than should be expected... WTF... they say that

it should burn 1 qt ever 1k miles????

THIS ALSO STANDS

C. Stinks

EVERYTHING Smells from the car... Brakes, Cats, Clutch, Oil, Gear oil, AND

other unidentified smells

They say:

THEY LOOKED... THEY DON'T SMELL NOTHING BUT WILL RECHECK WHEN IT'S NOT RAINING

D. Soaked roof/A pillar

This morning noticed a stain on the a pillar went to wipe it and its soaked

all the way up and down it's coming from the roof.

They say:

IT'S THE WINDSHIELD (I STILL DOUBT THIS) BUT THEY HAVE TO PULL THE HEADLINER ANYWAY SO THEY SAID THEY'LL CHECK THE ROOF RACK MOUNTS

E. Radio is haunted

They say HAS BEEN ORDERED WILL BE HERE NEXT WEEK OR SO

F. Idle is PURE sh!t

They say: SORRY YOUR F'D IT SEEMS FINE TO US

G. Broken Trim pieces

They say: THEY'LL FIX

Frankly not bad IMO... I'm still going to press for a Lemon Law now that I found out the fuse panel and god knows what else under the dash is wet...

I don't trust cars that have gotten soaked on the inside... they're NOTHING but nightmares down the road.

I'm gunna start taking steps to try to invoke the Lemon Law but I don't know whether or not I'll be successful... if not I'm going to stop driving the car and trade it in next year with similar milage as it has now (18k).

Thanks for the comments guys and anyone with any advice or comments feel free.