My LGT wagon install: Part 3 (front doors)

Howdy, folks... here's the latest installment of my LGT wagon installation showing the work done to the front doors.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/989/01frontpanel6yy.th.jpg

This picture shows the raw fiberglass part pulled from the plaster mold shown in part 1.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/5040/02backpanel1mw.th.jpg

Here is the back of the same panel with the new pocket attached. The pocket is also custom made from fiberglass and attaches separately to the back of the main door panel.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/4373/03oldpanelnewpanel8ox.th.jpg

Here we see the new panel and the original panel... as you can see the grille opening is a lot larger and the pocket has been moved back correspondingly. The notch in the rear is for the stock door entry light.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/3877/04panelsready4cf.th.jpg

What a difference some vinyl makes. The LGT Taupe interior is exactly the same color and grain as the Cadillac Escalade "shale" interior, so getting matching vinyl is no problem. Bet you guys didn't know our Subies used Cadillac materials. Here we see the panels ready to install.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/2412/05legacybadge6kv.th.jpg

Here's a little jewelry courtesy of our machine shop to go over a small feature on the door panel.

More on next post...

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/8544/06frontgrille14ka.th.jpg

Here we see the aluminum mesh grille taking shape. Bill Hamze made aluminum forms to beat the edges into submission with precision.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/8586/07doorprep5av.th.jpg

Here we see the door prep work done by Gary Martin. All large holes were sealed using ABS panels, sealant and screws. A custom speaker mounting fixture was made from wood and fiberglass and covered in black vinyl so it wouldn't show through the grille when we were done.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/7817/08doorprep23sp.th.jpg

Closeup of the ABS sealing panels.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/9625/09doorprep34ie.th.jpg

Closeup of the speaker mounting fixture... two 5.25-inch JL Audio XR woofers are installed in each door... the tweeter installs just ahead of the twin 5.25's (not shown)... the factory tweeter hole is not used.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/2214/10frontdynamat17hh.th.jpg

You guys know I'm a Dynamat junky... you should hear the doors close now... it sounds like an S-Class Benz.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/8673/11frontdynamat23ce.th.jpg

Closeup of the speaker mounting fixture with Dynamat applied to the door.

http://img212.echo.cx/img212/3838/12almostdonefront1zh.th.jpg

Here's the almost final product... the shiny grille will be powdercoated black, but you get the general idea... I think it looks pretty sweet.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

I think it looks pretty sweet.

The understatement of the year. That's just awesome. Big thanks for sharing your project. Can't wait to see the amp and sub install.

Thanks guys, I'll post more next week... I have the system up and running and it is absolutely great sounding. I'll post amp rack details and take some better shots of the finished interior and hatch areas. I'll also post some details about the CleanSweep hookup along with some response curves before and after.

The subwoofer box is not even started yet... I'm using one of our ProWedge boxes for the time being, which looks pretty nice.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

Superb work. Just a quick comment on the use of Dynamat or similar product. It made a HUGE difference when I used it on my WRX wagon. Used it on the inside of the outside door panel and on the inside door structure as well. Doors felt more substantial, reduced road noise and helped audio performance.

Tom

That is absolutely beautiful work. Is this a one off, or is JL looking to mass produce something like this? I'd sure be interested.

Thanks for the kind words... we really didn't design these for mass production... there is a ton of detail work that has to be done after the basic form is pulled from the mold. A lot of sanding, filling, attaching clips and brackets, covering in vinyl, test fitting, adjusting... etc.

Bill Hamze spent about two weeks making the front door panels and grilles... if you figure 40 hrs. per week times only $25.00/hr. that alone would be $2000.00 and that's without looking at the work Gary did on door prep. In other words, it would be very difficult to make these into production pieces and they would be extremely expensive. I asked Bill what he would charge to make another set and he just laughed.

What if he just sold us the unfinished fiberglass bottom pieces and left the rest to us? I'd be in for a pair for sure. If he made a mold in the beginning, I assume it'd be reasonably easy (and thus cost-effective) to reproduce -- at least in limited quantities for some of us on the board.

My 6.5's have massive magnets and want to hit the window guide even with a spacer. If I bring it out enough to clear the track, the cone hits the stock grille. I'd rather not have to ditch them for something else and your door panels are much nicer that anything I'd be able to do myself. I have no fiberglass experience at all.

Manville - you guys are known for awesome show cars (and I was somewhat involved in some of the Quart show cars that Bibb's shop did in the '90's), but I have to say I am speechless. Remember, I used to sell $25K systems for show and for go (custom NSX with fiberglass dash), so I am no stranger to nice installs.

WOW!! I don't know what else to say.

-Dan

Thanks for the kind words... we really didn't design these for mass production... there is a ton of detail work that has to be done after the basic form is pulled from the mold. A lot of sanding, filling, attaching clips and brackets, covering in vinyl, test fitting, adjusting... etc.

 

Bill Hamze spent about two weeks making the front door panels and grilles... if you figure 40 hrs. per week times only $25.00/hr. that alone would be $2000.00 and that's without looking at the work Gary did on door prep. In other words, it would be very difficult to make these into production pieces and they would be extremely expensive. I asked Bill what he would charge to make another set and he just laughed.

That's what I figured, but it never hurts to ask right? I wouldn't think that there would be enough of a market for a part like that to justify production. How about some kick panels? That would be much easier to produce and I could see a much more extensive market for those.

What if he just sold us the unfinished fiberglass bottom pieces and left the rest to us? I'd be in for a pair for sure. If he made a mold in the beginning, I assume it'd be reasonably easy (and thus cost-effective) to reproduce -- at least in limited quantities for some of us on the board.

 

My 6.5's have massive magnets and want to hit the window guide even with a spacer. If I bring it out enough to clear the track, the cone hits the stock grille. I'd rather not have to ditch them for something else and your door panels are much nicer that anything I'd be able to do myself. I have no fiberglass experience at all.

The panels were designed for a dual 5.25 woofer setup, which requires some trimming of sheet metal on the door. They do not provide any additional depth compared to the stock panels, they're the same. If you're planning on sticking with a single 6.5, there is no reason to do the custom panels. You may want to look into alternative 6.5's that will fit (our XR and ZR 6.5-inch will fit and clear the mechanism with a simple spacer ring like the one we built for the rear doors).

The raw panels still require significant work to engineer the mounts, grilles and pocket structures and to integrate the entry light. The plaster mold we used for the raw panel is good for about eight to ten parts so I suppose we could, in theory, pull a few parts for those who are not afraid of the extra work. I'll ask Bill what would be involved and what the cost would be, but I can't promise anything.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

man I can't even look at this stuff (no way in heck I can afford it)

Manville, what about us "real world" guys, with limited budgets and resources? could you perhaps make some suggestions for components that would "plug in" and give cost effective improvements? I'm not begrudging you your setup at all, if I were there I'd do it too, all the way! It's beautiful! Buuuuut, I'm not cutting up a leased car, and I'm, uh, inbetween engagements right now, and anyhow I spend all my discretionary budget on gofast parts for the Miata. But I'd happily drop a G-note on Clean Sweep, an amp, and some cones.

Tom

Mosca, you can get excellent performance by using a single 6.5-inch coax in each door. Use a high quality speaker (like our XR stuff), build the appropriate spacer (like my rear door install), Dynamat the bejeezus out of the door and the door panel, make sure there is a good seal between the speaker and the door panel and it will sound very nice. Yes, I recommended a coax, rather than components... the stock tweeter location is stupid... a coax will stage and image better than components in the LGT.

What I did in my wagon does not make any sense for most people, only for those deranged enough to spend a bunch of time and money for that last little bit of performance and wow-factor.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

Thank you sir!

Tom

Manville,

Did you consider putting the additional door woofer to the rear of the map pocket on the stock door panels? Having had the doors apart, would this be a sensible location?

EDIT: Looking at the specs on the CleanSweep, am I correct in assuming the factory fade and balance controls will still work?

Manville,

 

Did you consider putting the additional door woofer to the rear of the map pocket on the stock door panels? Having had the doors apart, would this be a sensible location?

 

EDIT: Looking at the specs on the CleanSweep, am I correct in assuming the factory fade and balance controls will still work?

No, that would have been pretty disastrous from a sound quality point of view. To get a little technical, the close spacing of the dual 5.25's actually allows them to "combine" their outputs into one coherent wavefront, except it increases the vertical dispersion and narrows the front-to-rear dispersion in the car. This results in improved staging and imaging, and also improved power handling, efficiency and output compared to a single speaker. If you were to place the second speaker at the rear of the door it would simply create a second sound source with unequal pathlengths and would smear the image and stage all over the place. You'd be better off with a single 6.5 in the front of the door.

You are correct in your assumptions about the CleanSweep... all the head unit's audio functions operate normally: Fader/Balance and Bass/Midrange/Treble or Bass/"Middle"/Treble as Subaru calls it.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

Hi manville! it's awesome to see you on this forum as i have always enjoyed your posts on other audio forums around the net!

i have a few questions for you if you dont mind answering. first, what is the max speaker depth for the front doors w/ a spacer? Second, if you have already planned it out, what is the best place to ground the system in the back? i'd rather not randomly sand/drill holes in the back just to find a bad grounding point.

Any help would be appreciated.

Hi manville! it's awesome to see you on this forum as i have always enjoyed your posts on other audio forums around the net!

i have a few questions for you if you dont mind answering. first, what is the max speaker depth for the front doors w/ a spacer? Second, if you have already planned it out, what is the best place to ground the system in the back? i'd rather not randomly sand/drill holes in the back just to find a bad grounding point.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Ritual...

I'm not exactly sure what the absolute depth limit is. I do know that our XR's fit and they're 2.81-inches deep from the back of the mounting flange to the back of the back plate.

We grounded the system on the side of the spare tire well, using one of our ground lugs. I'll post a pic when I post details of the amp rack.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

Jim, you're really pushing the stock alternator hard with a 1000/1 and a 450/4... see if you can step that back to a 500/1 and 450/4 (that's what I'm using). The caps aren't really going to help. You will need to run at least a 2 AWG power wire in either case... if you're dead set on a 1000/1, I'd recommend a 1/0 wire.

Best regards,

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

I'm drawing up my little plan, but I'm not sure about the rear speakers. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Cleansweep

250/1 driving 10W6

300/4 driving XR650CSi in front, and either XR525CXi or XR650CXi in the back.

Dynamat as much as I can

Which setup would be best for the back considering both installation and performance?

I'm planning this as part of a bigger project that will include a mac mini and either a 7" in-dash screen or a 10" that lives in the glovebox and has a manual mount near the dash. (This would allow complete removal for the nights when it gets to 30 below zero here.)

EDIT: Size of the sub is a strong factor for me. What is the smallest enclosure I could realistically use for the 10W6? Would there be a better (smaller) sub with comparable performance? (Overall sound quality is more important to me than extreme bass.)