My First Engine Build: PDX Flavor

Hey Fellow Subbiebros, I have been a longtime (1 year) eavesdropper however I never had any need to post, mainly because I could always finds answers with the search tool . Circumstances have changed and now im in the midst of a rebuild and I want to share my project.

This thread will be organized in the following order.

Post #2 Back Story

Post #3 Build-List/Equipment/Work space

Post #4 Cleaning and Inspecting

Post #5 Rebuilding

Post #6 Installing the motor back into the car

Post #7 Tuning/Break in

Post #8 Reflection

Thanks for the layout idea StkmltS

Post #2 Back Story

I purchased a 2005 legacy GT MT with 100k in January 2016. The car had a new engine and turbo done about 8 months prior. The engine was replaced due to a failure that left metal debris throughout the engine.

The first lesson l learned is don’t have your run of the mill repair shop do your Turbo Subaru, they don’t know what’s going on! After doing countless hours of surfing legacygt.com I have discovered more than a handful of mistakes and or ignorant oversights with the rebuilt engine that came with my car. The car had major metal contamination leading to the first rebuild. The shop didn’t replace the oil cooler, rtv was blocking oil passages on heads, they left on a cracked turbo inlet, there were mismatching bolts and the stock uppipe had missing a chunk from the catt??? That last one we all know will lead to catastrophic failure.

I changed the up-pipe a few months after owning the car because I read how bad the catted one was. While changing it I discovered the missing section of cat, but the damage was already done. I felt relived that I had replaced it and the car was still running. I also replaced the struts, front endlinks, ball joints, radiator, tires, rims and switched to Rotella T6.

In August I purchased an AccessPort and Air intake from Cobb Surgeline. I installed both and flashed to stage 1 since I had all the proper bolt-ons. After 10 minutes of driving a slapping/knocking noise around 3000rpm developed. There goes the rod bearing.

AAA was a life saver because I ended up towing my car multiple times. The first place I took my car was a real stealership. After looking at my car, the bloodsuckers told me all I needed was a shortblock . There service was terrible (they forgot about me) and the mechanic wasn’t interesting in answering any of my questions. The stealership also tried to sell me a used wrx that wouldnt start... all I wanted to do was drive a new WRX! Not look at beat to hell trade-in. I won’t be going back there.

As a side note my 11 year old Legacy has a nicer interior and was more enjoyable to drive vs. a new WRX. That’s a fact not an opinion. The only things the Rex had that I wished my Legacy had was an aux input, a running motor and a warranty.

I ended up towing my car back home while I decided what to do next. A few weeks later I took my car to Carr Subaru (different dealership) because I was dealing with SoA who wanted me to have subaru tear the motor down to determine the failure. SoA led me to believe they might assist in the rebuild if I spent 1000 dollars to tear the engine apart. After I spend $1000 on the teardown SoA told me they would give me $1000 off a new Subaru I just want my Legacy back! I would like to point out Carr Subaru had great service and they had discounts on parts at the time.

At this point the build estimate skyrockets because the tear down exposes scarring on the cam journals, metallic looking oil, and turbo shaft play… F**K ME! I decided to again tow my car back home and park it.

What happened to me I will call the “Holy Trinity of Failures”. The HToF includes the damage cause by (1) the catted up-pipe which would explain some shaft play in the turbo, (2) The metal contamination due to critical parts not being replaced during the first rebuild (3) the tune. Im sure we can debate the whole Tune aspect. Some would say I shouldn’t have changed the tune without checking the health of the engine first, the car was probably running lean/rich if there was any leaks. Others might say the stock tune on a car with an aftermarket CBE, up-pipe and air intake would cause problems.

Here are all the parts I got back from CARR Subaru

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=244482&stc=1&d=1486336363

Here are the bolts I had to sort out I ended up spending a few hours matching the bolts with the parts diagram on the Subaru parts website. I recommend you keep them organized. I also had to order about a dozen bolts that i wasnt sure about.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=244481&stc=1&d=1486336363

Post #3 Build-List/Equipment/Work space

I also have a list of the tools and equipment that i will try to post soon.

Currently my goal is to have the car running around the beginning of April. as of Febuary 5th I have ordered most of the parts and im waiting on the turbo, Injectors and AVCS cam gears, all of which I sent out for service and repair.

I got 1.5 garage bays for my rebuild. Thanks Mom and Dad! Couldn't do it without them. and there car I get to borrow

I think im set on fluids and filters for a while.

Febuary, Week 1:

Most of my parts have arrived. My Turbo, Injectors and AVCS Gears are all out being repaired. I started to assemble my new block with everything I had ready. (1)

I wired the Prosport Halo Boost/Oil gauge connector to the clock (2)

My first hurdle to deal with are my Heads. My original set had an issue with scoring in the journals and cams, mostly on the left side, so I ordered refurbished B25 Heads & Cams off eBay. (3)

Initial thought of the Ebay Heads/Cams was they looked clean and rebuild however there are a few concerns and issues I need to address.

I measured the valve lash and every single exhaust valve was to tight. I have lots of extra valve buckets so hopefully I can use some of them. I will try to measure the buckets this following week. Im probably going to bring in all 32 buckets I have to work to use a micrometer .

The Cams that came with the Ebay heads are hollow, where as my original cams are solid (4). Guess I cant mix and match to make the best set. The cams also have tooling marks. (5)

The left side outer exhaust cam journal has 1 main score going around the whole thing, it look to be maybe .002" deep (6). I feel like every time this issue gets brought up people argue whether or not the heads are still good. Please let me know your opinion on scored heads. Im hoping it can be a nice big oil retention groove .

The last thing I noticed was both heads have an exhaust valve that looks different than the other 3 (7). The exhaust valve is the front one of cylinder 3 and 4. Does this strike anybody as odd?

Sounds like you are not confident enough to bolt on those EBay heads as is. Good call!

No respectable machinist should send out a set of heads with incorrect valve lash already showing at the bench, for example. Who knows what else they did. The chewed up cams mean the heads where pulled by a goon who couldn't be bothered to figure out some other way to hold the cam gears. What other surprises await? Any stripped bolts? Was the head bashed off the block with a hammer?

The hollow cams are apparently standard for new stock. This according to Google. I've not seen them before. You might consider using your old cams just in case there is something about the new ones that is incompatible with your existing setup.

Since you are going the new short block route, it seems you are not slavish to doing everything yourself. In that case, I'd drop the 'new' heads off at a reputable machine shop and ask them to work through them.

There is a reasonable view that any Ebay part is basically a core. No matter how convincing the 'ready to bolt on' description sounds.

Sounds like you have already ordered all your parts. There are a few things you could have probably done without, and a couple of omissions in my opinion.

Do you really need:

Cobb downpipe? Why not get things up and running with the stock one to make sure the build is holding before committing to a big item like that.

Oil pump? Not super $$ but the previous rebuilder may have put a new one in anyway. You could easily tear it down, clean it up and measure clearances. Good chance it is fine if it was new. Plus you can fill it with assembly lube for startup at the same time.

Oil separator plate? Does the SB really not have that already?

Oil pan?

Don't forget:

Clutch throwout bearing. I've re-used flywheel, driven plate and pressure plate a few times but NEVER pass on an opportunity to replaced the TOB.

Red o-ring for the PS pump low pressure line. Get a couple. You probably did what we all do, pulling the PS gear to the right fender when you removed the engine. This tends to cause leaks, which of course have to happen on first startup and ruin your big day!

I love the layout of this thread

Financially I think you've definitely made the right decision buying a new shortblock.

What are you doing about your turbo?

I measured the valve lash and every single exhaust valve was to tight. I have lots of extra valve buckets so hopefully I can use some of them. I will try to measure the buckets this following week. Im probably going to bring in all 32 buckets I have to work to use a micrometer .

It's strange that a set of "refurbished" heads wouldn't have the correct valve clearance, but I guess that's gotta be somewhat expected. Sounds like you'll be fine resolving the issue with what you already have.

The Cams that came with the Ebay heads are hollow, where as my original cams are solid (4). Guess I cant mix and match to make the best set. The cams also have tooling marks. (5)

Weight savings? If there weren't any tooling marks on critical surfaces you'd probably be ok. If your original cams look better I'd use those. That's just common sense.

The left side outer exhaust cam journal has 1 main score going around the whole thing, it look to be maybe .002" deep (6). I feel like every time this issue gets brought up people argue whether or not the heads are still good. Please let me know your opinion on scored heads. Im hoping it can be a nice big oil retention groove .

Your logic about the extra oil retention sounds... sound, but you should carefully inspect the area immediately surrounding the scoring to see if there's any raised material. Maybe the scoring mark isn't from missing material, but instead it's from material being pushed to the sides of whatever chunk of metal wedged itself in there.

The last thing I noticed was both heads have an exhaust valve that looks different than the other 3 (7). The exhaust valve is the front one of cylinder 3 and 4. Does this strike anybody as odd?

From looking at your picture your valves all look the same to me. Can you circle the valves you're talking about?

It's strange that a set of "refurbished" heads wouldn't have the correct valve clearance, but I guess that's gotta be somewhat expected. Sounds like you'll be fine resolving the issue with what you already have.

Not that strange if you think about the quickie rebuild business. Pull the head. Tear it down. Throw all parts in the dishwasher. Deck the crap out of the head and hand lap the valves to make everything flat and shiny.

Put it all back together and call it 'ready to go another 100K'.

Thing is, the previously tight exhaust valves will now only be tighter. I see this as strong evidence those heads were not actually rebuilt in the usual sense of the word. And the shortcuts could come back to haunt.

The exhaust valve at 2 o-clock on cyl #3 doesn't seem to have any stamping on it. I think that is what the OP is referring to. If one or two valves were replaced, why? And why not the others at the same time?

No offence to the OP; most of us have been through this. Many times for me, if I'm being honest. I still do buy stuff on Ebay, but with the idea it is a core for rebuild. Sometimes you get lucky and it is more.

Sorry, one more thing and then I'll go quiet. Promise

I don't see many hoses on your parts list and in the picture of progress so far; it looks like you are reusing some of those water hoses. I would not do that!

Even if they look solid, they can get pretty chewed up at the joints and you are re-using the stock clamps. I like them a lot, but stock clamps work best with new hoses and clean pipes.

My bad if those are all new hoses. No fun to swap in new hoses after the engine is installed, if they are not. Only a couple can be reached by normal humans once the engine is built and in place.

What are you doing about your turbo?

My VF-40 is being rebuilt by JmP6889928, Im going the custom route. Today John (JmP6889928) told me my turbo shaft was slightly bent, good thing the custom build has a completely new turbine/shaft/ compressor wheel assembly .

If there weren't any tooling marks on critical surfaces you'd probably be ok. If your original cams look better I'd use those. That's just common sense.

All the bearing surfaces look fine on the hollow cams. At least one of my original cams is chewed up on the bearing surface. Hollow Cams it is!!

From looking at your picture your valves all look the same to me. Can you circle the valves you're talking about?

Here is a better photo of both heads (1) It looks like one exhaust valve got switched on each head... interesting. I think bringing them into a machine shop is my best option. I will give them some sort of a list like the one JmP6889928 posted. but more along the lines of can they check if these things were done/fix everything:lol:.

1. Machine shop will pressure test.

2. Hot tank make sure they take oil line plugs out to properly clean

3. Clean the valves and inspect to make sure there is enough sealing surface on the valve itself and if not, replace.

4. Inspect the valve guides and replace if necessary.

5. Inspect the valve seats and replace if necessary.

6. Grind the valves themselves on a valve grinding machine.

7. Grind the seats with a valve seat grinder.

8. Deck the heads (gasket surface) enough without being too much-enough to make sure that they both are flat.

9. Install the valves into the head with assembly lube.

10. Install new valve stem seals on each valve.

11. Reinstall the springs onto each valve stem.

12. Insert your cams and buckets and switch buckets around until they have the valves correctly lashed as per specs.

13. Call you up to come and get them and pay them $400.00 or more, depending on exactly what else is needed.

No respectable machinist should send out a set of heads with incorrect valve lash already showing at the bench, for example. Who knows what else they did. The chewed up cams mean the heads where pulled by a goon who couldn't be bothered to figure out some other way to hold the cam gears. What other surprises await?

Here is a chart with the measured valve lash (2). the heads didnt have any rtv so maybe the gaps would increase however I imagine the main bearing surface is on the inner bearing brackets that dont take rtv. The heads are also missing 3 of the 6 studs that bolt up to the headers. A good machine shop is the next logical step.

There is a reasonable view that any Ebay part is basically a core. No matter how convincing the 'ready to bolt on' description sounds.

Thats how I approached these heads, I was surprised the cams were hollow because i didnt know they had multiple types. If the shop says they are solid im fine using them. the scoring on the left head was somewhat disappointing because thats the same spot my other heads are scored up. 2 good right heads + 2 scored left heads = i need to wait and see what the machine shop says, but my gut says they will be fine.

Sorry, one more thing and then I'll go quiet. Promise

 

I don't see many hoses on your parts list and in the picture of progress so far; it looks like you are reusing some of those water hoses. I would not do that!

I replaced a few vacuum hoses and things on the intake manifold. the water hoses were all fine looking, still flexible and no visible cracks. the inside had some odd discoloration but they seem fine to me. I was thinking of getting some red tubes, I believe there is a group buy going on for them, but I would need them now. I appreciate the feedback and hope you enjoy my build thread. Any input is much appreciated.

I just added a small list of parts I already had prior to my recent parts purchase this might clear up some confusion, I should have posted it sooner .

Cobb downpipe? Why not get things up and running with the stock one to make sure the build is holding before committing to a big item like that.

HAHA i really debated this one, I was going to spend 600 sooner or later so i just went for it. Plus I dont have to deal with installing it at a later date. If my car goes boom the almost new cobb dp will still be worth $500

Originally Posted by birkhoff

Cobb downpipe? Why not get things up and running with the stock one to make sure the build is holding before committing to a big item like that.

HAHA i really debated this one, I was going to spend 600 sooner or later so i just went for it. Plus I dont have to deal with installing it at a later date. If my car goes boom the almost new cobb dp will still be worth $500

 

Originally Posted by lgt503

HAHA i really debated this one, I was going to spend 600 sooner or later so i just went for it. Plus I dont have to deal with installing it at a later date. If my car goes boom the almost new cobb dp will still be worth $500

Your honesty is refreshing!

This comes up quite a lot. Once you get deep into a big rebuild project like this, why not do those mods you planned, and will end up doing anyway, at the same time?

My answer is: think `restore point'

You need a reliable restore point you can use to confirm you have fixed the things that were wrong, and not created new problems in the process.

If the car was running ok before it went south (tune wise, normal oil consumption etc) then my advice (for what it is worth) is to put it back together with the same bolt on parts, same tune, and get it running at least as well as it was at the restore point. Then pick up again with the mods.

Suppose you do the DP and a few other goodies and there is a running problem right from first startup. Is it the break-in tune? Something bolted on that is not working with the old tune? An internal or engine assembly problem? On top of the obvious disappointment, you have a bunch of interconnected suspects to wade through in your diagnostics. This can get complicated fast!

To see that this can happen, just scroll down to the bottom of almost any completed engine build on these pages and you will see the inevitable gremlins that appear on startup. Diagnosing and fixing them quickly is important for a satisfactory outcome. It works the other way too. Little problems you had before, that are still there after the rebuild are much easier to find now. In my case, an annoying rattle that I had attributed to an internal engine problem turned out to be a loose cat. I no longer have to wonder . . .

So true...

And a DP is super easy to swap once you are at that point, after doing the whole build and install, swapping a DP and tune update will feel like a 10 minute job.

You need a reliable restore point you can use to confirm you have fixed the things that were wrong, and not created new problems in the process.

Thanks for the sound advice. I dont want to introduce to many new aftermarket parts into the rebuild. for this reason i am going to stick the the old intercooler, and boost controller, for now... that $1000 GS TMIC has my eye but the cost has kept me at bay, once my tax returns are back all bets are off:). I debated going for a new VF-52 but thought that would introduce a whole new set of unknowns. The custum build VF-40 from JmP will keep everything closer to original but with more boost when the time is right. the downpipe on the other hand I feel good about replacing, as long as I seal the exhaust system up good I shouldn't be introducing any new problems... i hope . Id hate to say you told me so!

I have a couple questions that you guys could maybe enlighten me on. If there are post about these topics id love to read them but I couldn't find much and I have seached.

First, I made a rookie mistake , I installed the oil pump without letting the ultra black RTV sit for any length of time. I had plenty of rtv on the mating surface but I'm concerned it may have all squeezed out. Any advice? should I be worried? Now is the time for me to redo the seal before I have it in the car and find out it leaks. I asked 2 very Mechanically minded friends and the need to let rtv sit and they gave me different answers, of coarse! not that it make a difference but it was probably 40deg. Fahrenheit outside or 4.44 Celsius for you fancy progressive folks .

Here is a photo of the oil pump that came off the old shortblock, there was no real RTV covering the mating surfaces on the pump or the block. This makes me think the shop that rebuild my engine didnt let the rtv sit long enough either.

Next, The valve covers have a permanent piece of metal that oil runs between it and the cover. I cant see behind, or clean behind this metal easily

Im wondering if break-clean would do the job for cleaning/getting rid of any metel particulate or would a shop with a parts washer etc. be my best bet?

#LGTSTi is still cheaper and nicer then equal year wrx sti.

I think the waiting period applies to after the pump is installed.

When I did mine I didn't let the sealant sit any longer than it took me to install the pump. I have about 4k on my rebuild and it isn't leaking (from there) (yet).

Regarding the valve covers:

I think the sheet metal piece you're talking about is just a splash-guard. I washed my covers with soapy water, thoroughly sprayed them with brake clean, and then pressure washed them.

machine shop & heads. The average machine shop works in 1/1000ths of an inch. They use a reference book to set the valve lash, also in 1/1000ths of an inch.

It should be noted that the reference book (atco) values for the exhaust valve lash are too small. The first one I used refused to accept the factory service manual's values and cut the tips to match "their" reference values. After some yelling, they refunded my money and I bot new heads.

Be sure you know what you are expecting for work from the machine shop. Subaru valves have one length. The idea was to use different bucket thicknesses to make up for the differences in valve length required. Most shop will "tip" the valves rather than fitting the correct buckets. "tip" 'ing involves cutting into the hardened tip of the valve stem.

If you're especially lucky, the machine shop will buy extra long valve stems, then cut them down until the lash can be set using one of their "used" buckets. My 2nd shop did this.

I'm shopping for another shop that is willing to try something new. We'll see.

/rant

February week 2

I got my AVCS Cam gears back from Outfront Motorsport. One of my gears ended up being broken and they replaced it. Picture (1) is what the broken gear looks like, (2) is what they should look like. (3) is of the replacement gear. I’m not too happy about the rust on the replacement gear, my other gears are in much nicer visual condition.

I also got my Injectors back From Witchhunter Performance. Surprisingly the injectors seemed to be in good condition before Whichhunter rebuild them, but the peace of mind is worth it. Here Is the performance analysis (4).

I brought my Ebay heads to a machine shop in Portland called Portland Engine Rebuilders. They are going to check the condition and serviceability of the heads. I should hear back in about a week or so. My heads are the last thing Im waiting on until I can get the engine built into a long block.

I ended up cleaning the valve covers with hot water, dove soap, some wire brushes and break clean. The break clean was really only needed to rinse behind the splash guard. After 5-6 rinses and shakes of break clean behind the splashguard I was still getting black debris coming out. Most of the loose stuff came out but without a way to brush the walls I think it’s about as good as it will get. I’m confident I’ve removed any leftover metal and now it’s just a bit of caked on oil left. If i had a pressure washer I'd have used it.

Ran the boost and oil pressure gauge wires from the engine bay to the cubby compartment. I ran the wires through the opening the main wiring harness uses located on the passenger side. I had to remove the glove box to run the wires. Since I have the glove box off I figured i'd check the cabin air filter and replace if necessary. To my surprise there was no cabin air filter in place... who would just remove the air filter and not replace it.

Made myself a cubby gauge cluster holder at work. At work we shoot lasers so I was able to laser cut 1/16 inch steel. The gauges fit perfectly. I just need to bend the bottom part for it to fit into the cubby (5)

...If i had a pressure washer I'd have used it...

Take it to a car wash.