Interior lighting brainstorm session

OK, so most of us with Ltd wagons know the interior dome light is too far aft to illuminate the front seating area. Getting into my car at night is like crawling into a hole in the ground. It boggles my mind that Subaru didn't wire the map lights into the dome light circuit (as done in my wife's TSX). Anyway, I was hoping to collect some ideas on how the front seating area can be illuminated when the doors are open. One possibility of course, is to wire the map lights into the dome light circuit. However, this could potentially turn into a major project if you want to also keep them independently functioning as map lights. And then there's the issue of running wires -- it would not necessarily be easy to run a wire from the rear dome light up around the moonroof and to the map light area. So, some things to think about: 1) where are the best places to tap into the "door open" signal that goes to the dome light? Possibilities: the door switches, the lights in the doors, the wiring going to the doors, the dome light, the key ring light (which only goes on when the driver's door is open). 2) Where is a good place for lights in the front?? Possibilities include the map light area, under the dash, the doors, under the seats (last three illuminate the footwells), behind the mirror. 3) what types of lighting?? Possiblities are: bulb, LED, cold-cathode tube. Note: see this thread for a cool idea: [url]http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4412[/url] (does not directly address my need for a door-open courtesy light, but it's cool nonetheless! I know we have a lot of creative people here, so I was hoping we could share ideas. So lets get the ball rolling! Edit: see my post below for a solution! thanks, Craig

I don't know how it's wired, but on my GMC pickup, the dome light AND the two map lights come on. They stay on until you start the truck. After that, they slowly dim. Then you can push a button and turn on either map light like normal. I don't have a wiring schematic for it yet, but it can't be too hard. You could always tap into the dome light and disable the maplight buttons. If you need to read something at night, reach back and hit the dome light overide switch.

[url]http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BL-ML-RED&Category_Code=moonlight[/url] I guess heres an item that someone could try. [IMG]http://www.premiumaquatics.com/images/moon_red.jpg[/IMG]

[quote name='c_hunter'] So, some things to think about: 1) where are the best places to tap into the "door open" signal that goes to the dome light? Possibilities: the door switches, the lights in the doors, the wiring going to the doors, the dome light, the key ring light (which only goes on when the driver's door is open). 2) Where is a good place for lights in the front?? Possibilities include the map light area, under the dash, the doors, under the seats (last three illuminate the footwells), behind the mirror. 3) what types of lighting?? Possiblities are: bulb, LED, cold-cathode tube. I know we have a lot of creative people here, so I was hoping we could share ideas. So lets get the ball rolling! thanks, Craig[/QUOTE] Craig- When I did mine I had first pulled the rear dome light and looked at splicing into there and running the wires along the side of the sunroof by pulling off the rubber gaskets that hold the headliner up. It was real late and I was lazy so I took the easy way out :) As for location, there is space up in the map light area, and a small bulb/fixture could probably be added. The opaque part of the map light lens is actually just a plastic insert that can be removed so you can put a light behind the clear plastic and have it shine through. Thanks for the props on my little LED hack...I hope we figure this one out so I can have another weekend project to keep me off of the streets ;) Brian

I'm considering lighting the front footwells with LED bulbs, like maybe the same ones used for tail/blinker lights. They're already 12 volt, use a standard plug, and will last forever. I'd also want to light the rear footwells with lights under the front seats, like in the Lexus sedans. Following the Lexus theme, I also want red LEDs above the interior door handles. This would provide a subtle backlight and let people see where the pulls are in the dark. This would be quick wiring, needing only to connect to the window switch illumination.

With respect to underseat lighting, has anyone looked into using the light tubes used in computer cases? They are 12v LED type and use standard Molex connectors. You could potentially get a large bag of connectors to allow for easy changing or removal later without yanking the wiring. [url]http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=00-883-004-03.JPG/00-883-004-02.JPG/00-883-004-01.JPG&CurImage=00-883-004-02.JPG[/url] Folks say this looks more pinkish but just wanted to show that stuff like this is out there and its CHEAP! Competition for this sort of thing is high in the comp world and most light tubes can be had for under $10. PS, Ive been toying with this idead under the seats for the rear occupants and wiring to a three position switch in the dash like a dome light (on, off, door activated)

Some great ideas guys! Thanks for the info Brian, I will poke around and look at the lights tomorrow. Need to keep off the streets too.... I think lighting could turn into an ongoing project! Craig

Well, I think I got it taken care of! First, the dome light is switched via ground, and not only that, the link to ground varies in resistance (in order to fade the light in and out). Dome lights have been switched on ground traditionally, but I figured this one was switched positive and the "fade" was controlled by a capacitor on the + side -- not so. The map light, on the other hand, is switched positive. So there is not a simple/direct way to connect the map and dome lights together. The options are: 1) put additional bulbs in the map light that can be switched to ground by the dome circuit, or 2) use a relay powered by the dome circuit to switch the map on positive. #1 won't really work because space is tight in the map light region (allowing for air space around the bulbs). #2 won't work because of the fade in/out -- it causes relays to buzz during the fade. But wait!! After studying the map light circuit, I found that it can be easily changed to switch-on-ground by reversing the two harness wires going into the map light (just reverse the two pins in the connector). Now, a wire can be run from the switched ground on the dome light to the ground on the map light. Of the three wires going into the dome light, black is constant ground, brown is switched/faded ground from the doors, and blue/red is constant +12V. The switch chooses between black (on), brown (door), or no ground (off). I started by tapping into the ground terminal that is "after" the switch on the light (thus, the on/off/door switch will control the map light too): [img]http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/IMG_1099-01.jpg[/img] The blue wire was run up to the map light by routing it in the headliner, going around the moonroof (just pull back the vinyl trim around the edge). At the map light, I connected a wire to the ground (formerly +) terminal of each light: [img]http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/IMG_1097-01.jpg[/img] I stuck a connector on the end of this for convenience, and another connector on the wire coming from the dome light. I put them together, tucked all the wires back in, and put everything back together. The result: when a door is opened the map lights fade in with the dome, and they fade back out when all doors are closed. When the dome light switch is set to "on" the map lights come on with the dome light. When the switch is set to "off" all lights stay off. And the map lights still function as map lights when switched, with two changes: 1) both map lights come on with either switch, and 2) the dome light comes on when the map lights are switched on. Obviously there are numerous variatons on this. You could have the dome only switch one of the map lights, leaving the other map light independent. I believe diodes could possibly be used to keep the lights independent. And so on. For now, I am pretty happy with the mod. One warning, when I soldered the wire into the map light terminals, one of the switches stopped working afterwards. It is possible that the heat of soldering caused this, but I am not sure. I was able to take the switch apart and didn't see any signs of solder damage. Plus it worked after I put it back together. So my only advice is to be aware that the map light switches may be delicate. Instead of soldering, I would probably try something different next time. You could probably drill a small hole in the metal bus bars running through the map light and use a small screw to attach wires. Craig

Excellent solution c_hunter. Thanks for the post. I really wanted to use the map lights for lighting up front to keep the stock appearance. I will probably make this mod today. I can't believe how dark the interior is at night when you open the door. Does Subaru ever look into their cars at night?

Yeah, I found that odd too. There are a lot of "little things" like this that Subaru misses, and it sort of keeps them out of "upscale" league they are pursuing. This is an example of an obvious flaw that is super easy to correct. Probably would only add pennies to the cost of the car. How could they overlook it?? Craig

Craig, this is awesome work! Subaru should put you on a "little luxury touches task team" or at the very least pay you for your work! :) I've got to try this mod myself. So a few clarifying questinos for electrical dummies like myself: - Do you simply reattach the original harnesses after doing the wire modification and button back up? - What would happen if I connected just the driver's side map light to the dome light? I wanted to see if I could keep independent control of the map lights by just having the driver's side fade on and off with the dome light. - Any particular gauge wire that needs to be used? Also, a more basic question, but is it difficult to remove the light fixtures to begin with? Ken

ooo that is a god one!

Craig...awesome job, glad you figured it out! Now I can put this on my project list along w/ footwell lights, Ipod hook-up and rear foglight :)

[quote name='Wraith']Craig...awesome job, glad you figured it out! Now I can put this on my project list along w/ footwell lights, Ipod hook-up and rear foglight :)[/QUOTE] Yeah, I put some LEDs in the front footwells today, I'll post more details tomorrow when I can take pics. Used two red and one white LED in each footwell. Wiring was easy, I just tapped into the "ILM" fuse on the fuse panel which is switched with the parking/headlights. We'll see how it looks tonight in the dark! Craig

[quote name='Ken S']Craig, this is awesome work! Subaru should put you on a "little luxury touches task team" or at the very least pay you for your work! :) I've got to try this mod myself. So a few clarifying questinos for electrical dummies like myself: - Do you simply reattach the original harnesses after doing the wire modification and button back up? - What would happen if I connected just the driver's side map light to the dome light? I wanted to see if I could keep independent control of the map lights by just having the driver's side fade on and off with the dome light. - Any particular gauge wire that needs to be used? Also, a more basic question, but is it difficult to remove the light fixtures to begin with? Ken[/QUOTE] Yes, you just reattach the harnesses and put the lights back in place after running the wires. I took a little extra car taping wires down and wrapping connectors in felt to prevent rattles. It was real easy to remove the light fixtures -- just pry off the lens and then undo a couple screws to get the whole fixture out. I think Brian said they have instructions in the manual on getting the lens off (for changing bulbs). There are screwdriver indentations in the lenses for prying, but I just used my fingers (the indentations at least tell you which side to pry on). Probably the hardest part was reversing the pins in the harness connector that goes to the map light (to make it switch on ground instead of +). You have to pry off a little cover in the middle of the connector, and then use a super small flathead screwdriver to release the plastic locking tabs in the connector. The pins then slide out, and can be reversed; would be good to remove power (either at the battery or fuse panel) before doing this, as the pins are close together and you're prying with a metal object! In fact, unless one has a good understanding of where the juice flows, I would definitely disconnect the negative terminal of the battery before doing the project, just to be totally safe. I used 16 ga. wire, I think 16-18 ga. would be fine (there are guidelines on which ga. wire is needed for certain current levels). If you just connected to the driver's side light, then you would keep the two sides independent and it would function as you described. I think someone with more smarts than me could tell us what kind of diodes to use in order to keep all the lights independent -- a diode will only let current flow one way. I don't have enough experience with diodes outside of circuit boards to know which kind to spec for 12V. BTW, each map light bulb is 8W, as is the dome bulb. So each bulb pulls about 0.6-0.7 amps. Craig

3 amp diode, RadioShack part 276-1143, should do the trick.

[quote name='John M']3 amp diode, RadioShack part 276-1143, should do the trick.[/QUOTE] Cool, thanks for the info! So two of those would do the trick (one going to each map light, pointed "away" from the bulb since we are on the ground side of the bulb). This would end up keeping all three lights independently switched, and they'd all come on when a door is opened. Craig

Cool. LEDs for inside lighting. All I need now is to convert the outside ones to LED as well.

Hmm. Okay, so I don't have a wagon, nor a Legacy for that matter, but I have an idea that might be interesting. I don't know how it will look, nor if it will work with the headliner, and it might be lame, but here goes: what if you put two long lights on each side of the sunroof running front to back on the car? It might look kind of like a limosine.

Awesome job! It's got my vote to be a sticky!

OK, here are pics of my footwell lighting using LEDs. This shows the LEDs on the passenger side, mounted under the dash (both are daytime pics): [img]http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/IMG_1105-01.jpg[/img] [img]http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/IMG_1107-01.jpg[/img] As you can see from the second pic, the LEDs are rather directional in output, so some sort of diffuser is needed. After looking at a bunch of options, I kept coming back to a simple solution -- placing a patch of masking tape over each LED. With this adjustment, the light spreads out and fills the footwell. It's a nice soft white/red illumination. I tried getting a night picture of the final result, but my camera couldn't pick up the light in the footwell. Suffice it to say, it looks really good! Wiring was easy, I just tapped into the "ILM" fuse on the fuse panel which is switched with the parking/headlights. Craig

[quote name='johnny_m']Awesome job! It's got my vote to be a sticky![/QUOTE] I second the motion. :)

very nice

[quote name='c_hunter']Cool, thanks for the info! So two of those would do the trick (one going to each map light, pointed "away" from the bulb since we are on the ground side of the bulb). This would end up keeping all three lights independently switched, and they'd all come on when a door is opened. Craig[/QUOTE] Would all three lights truly be independent or would the map lights still be slaved to the dome light? -n8

[img]http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/light-circuit.jpg[/img] The top sketch shows the way I wired up the lights. The bottom shows adding two diodes to the circuit. As placed, these would allow each map light to switch on/off independently, and would prevent the dome from coming on when a map light is switched on. But, all lights would still come on when the dome is switched on (via the door opening or the switch on the dome light). Craig