Finished stage1, thinking nex: Suspension, brakes

car is 2005 LGT Limited with 148K, i belive suspension is stock, and it feels already shot. I tried to do brakes month ago, ended up installing all new brake pads and resurfaced rotors, but still braking is horrible and it shakes a bit when stopping from 80+ down.

 

New ej257 shortblock at 146K, CV Axles, LCA bushings, endlinks, new HID DDM kit.

Today got stage1 tune from cryotuneperformance, Dave is really great and helpfull.

 

What i am thinking to do next.

 

1. Koni struts with stock springs

2. DBA rotors, and maybe leave my pads since they have only 400 miles on them

3.SS brake lines from goodridge ??? or whatever brand

I do not track, neither autocross, but like my car to have less body roll and be more predictable, also brakes are crap.

 

I will be doing all work myself, but still not sure about struts and rotors, need some input from fellow LGT members, Thanks

5EAT transmission in my car

If you have the money get some bc coilovers, stop tech makes pretty good rotors for a good price , ss brake lines will Defiently stiffen it up but not needed for a dd IMO . Look at the grimmspeed master cylinder brace it helps alot.

What brake pads did you use ?

 

In most cases its the pads that cause the brakes to shimmy. Hawk Pads are what most of us use.

 

I have Hawk HPS on my Spec and Ceramics on my wagon. No wheel shimmy under braking. Get them from http://www.AZPinstalls.com

 

My wagon mow has Koni inserts and Epic springs, very little body roll. Contact m sprank for this set up. http://www.infamousperformance.net/servlet/StoreFront

Is stopping distance the problem or brake pedal feel?

Both, i think because my suspension is so old it affects how brakes work, pedal feel also big concern, it feels mushy. On slower speeds braking is fine, but on highway there is steering wheel vibration.

Pads that i have are autozone pads.

Both, i think because my suspension is so old it affects how brakes work, pedal feel also big concern, it feels mushy. On slower speeds braking is fine, but on highway there is steering wheel vibration.

Pads that i have are autozone pads.

 

Sounds like wrapped rotors. I typically buy cheap blanks. Don't buy into holes or slots. Swap a few pads on them and instead of getting them milled, just chuck them. $60 for a rotor is cheap. $15 to have it milled to reduce it's life is pointless.

 

Pads are a great topic of discussion. I wouldn't personally touch a hawk product. They are more marketing then they are compound development. Haven't had good luck with their products on or off the track.

 

Pedal feel can be improved with SS brake lines and a master cylinder brace. If you get SS lines ensure they are coated in plastic for safety reasons. No cheap Chinese lines, otherwise stuff will work into the line and fail in time.

 

Stopping distance itself is pretty poor, even with the dual piston fronts. If you're looking for a vast improvement I'd do:

 

New capilers + new rotors + new pads + new SS lines + fluid.

 

If you're tracking the car run super blue, but otherwise it's over kill for most.

car is 2005 LGT Limited with 148K, i belive suspension is stock, and it feels already shot. I tried to do brakes month ago, ended up installing all new brake pads and resurfaced rotors, but still braking is horrible and it shakes a bit when stopping from 80+ down.

 

New ej257 shortblock at 146K, CV Axles, LCA bushings, endlinks, new HID DDM kit.

Today got stage1 tune from cryotuneperformance, Dave is really great and helpfull.

 

What i am thinking to do next.

 

1. Koni struts with stock springs

2. DBA rotors, and maybe leave my pads since they have only 400 miles on them

3.SS brake lines from goodridge ??? or whatever brand

I do not track, neither autocross, but like my car to have less body roll and be more predictable, also brakes are crap.

 

I will be doing all work myself, but still not sure about struts and rotors, need some input from fellow LGT members, Thanks

1) Get rid of your crap pads from Autozone and get something better. Search about pads. I personally use Hawk HPS and I see all sorts of temperatures, weather, traffic conditions, and they work great and are quiet.

 

2) You don't need fancy rotors and I wouldn't spend my money on them. Don't bother with DBAs. Get cheap blanks, search here for Centric. Or just get OEM blanks. Don't resurface any more.

 

3) You don't need SS brake lines. If your existing lines are still in good condition, SS lines won't improve your pedal feel any unless you are really driving the car hard on a track. For a DD, the lines won't make a lick of difference. On the other hand, if your lines are in bad shape from the age of your car (146K) then perhaps you might as well toss them in to replace your old lines. My lines were replaced with SS lines around when my car had about 40K miles and it made no difference. You'll see the same mention from people here.

 

4) Koni struts + Epic springs is supposed to be win. You'll see LOTS of people happy about that. I have no idea why that guy is suggesting BC coil overs. Do your research and make up your own mind. For what it's worth, I have a set of Konis + Epics in my living room, going to have them installed in 2 weeks.

 

5) Get the GS MCB as suggested. It'll firm up the pedal a bit by reducing/eliminating firewall flex during braking.

 

6) If you have an issue with stopping distance, look at your tires first.

 

7) If you have a problem with body roll, consider a heavier sway bar but a lot of people that track their cars have mentioned before that a car in general can body roll a lot and still maintain handling on the road so it's more of that uncomfortable feeling that you get that makes people change sway bars out.

 

8) And for the millionth time, rotors don't warp. It is a misnomer. Read this:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

+1 on the centric rotors or oem blanks and better pads than those crap wagner pads from autozone! I replaced rotors all the way around with centric premium and the hawk hps pads to go with them as I didn't like the braking before the upgrade. Also had a hanging front left caliper so bought all four calipers from an 08 that were next to new condition for a steal from a local member and swapped out my old rusty beat calipers. The difference was amazing next up for brakes will be the master cylinder brace but in no rush as I am happy with them as is!

iNVAR nailed it. Disregard some of the other "advice" in here (Max and rk shared good info too, but the others... ). I have nothing to add since iNVAR's post summed it up perfectly.

Sorry to threadjack here, but why all the hate against re-surfacing rotors? I am genuinely curious.

1) Resurfacing rotors removes material. If the original rotors were messed up due to the pads being overheated and leaving deposits on them, resurfacing MAY remove the pad deposits, IF you cut deeply enough, but consequently, you've reduced the heat capacity of the rotors, increasing the likelihood that the overheating problem will reoccur and you'll leave deposits again.

 

2) If a mechanic doesn't cut enough material away, the vibration will just happen again even if the surface appears smooth. Read my link above and look at the section about cementite.

 

3) Blanks are cheap... in some cases not that much more expensive than resurfacing. Given (1) and (2) before, you might as well replace.

I have always replaced rotors once I start getting the vibration from deposits (what everyone likes to call warped rotors) Usually go through 3-4 sets of pads depending on condition/rust on the rotor then replace. Don't ride your brakes and drive like a douche and you won't overheat your brakes on a dd.

1) Get rid of your crap pads from Autozone and get something better. Search about pads. I personally use Hawk HPS and I see all sorts of temperatures, weather, traffic conditions, and they work great and are quiet.

 

2) You don't need fancy rotors and I wouldn't spend my money on them. Don't bother with DBAs. Get cheap blanks, search here for Centric. Or just get OEM blanks. Don't resurface any more.

 

3) You don't need SS brake lines. If your existing lines are still in good condition, SS lines won't improve your pedal feel any unless you are really driving the car hard on a track. For a DD, the lines won't make a lick of difference. On the other hand, if your lines are in bad shape from the age of your car (146K) then perhaps you might as well toss them in to replace your old lines. My lines were replaced with SS lines around when my car had about 40K miles and it made no difference. You'll see the same mention from people here.

 

4) Koni struts + Epic springs is supposed to be win. You'll see LOTS of people happy about that. I have no idea why that guy is suggesting BC coil overs. Do your research and make up your own mind. For what it's worth, I have a set of Konis + Epics in my living room, going to have them installed in 2 weeks.

 

5) Get the GS MCB as suggested. It'll firm up the pedal a bit by reducing/eliminating firewall flex during braking.

 

6) If you have an issue with stopping distance, look at your tires first.

 

7) If you have a problem with body roll, consider a heavier sway bar but a lot of people that track their cars have mentioned before that a car in general can body roll a lot and still maintain handling on the road so it's more of that uncomfortable feeling that you get that makes people change sway bars out.

 

8) And for the millionth time, rotors don't warp. It is a misnomer. Read this:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

 

I found the SS lines to be noticeable in my mountain runs. Which may benefit the OP since he is in CO.

 

I've also found that some pads release more gas then others, changing pad feel and the primary reason behind cross drilled rotors.

 

I don't disagree with stoptech's claims. However I've bed many a pads and got the wrapped rotor feeling after mountain runs. On better pads and rotors on the track car I don't have this problem. Be it a better cool down process.

 

Clearly having super hot pads and requiring the pads to hold the rotor to keep the car stopped at a light is going to transfer more material and heat.

 

If you guys start tracking your cars you'll use a stopping process that doesn't have the car using the brakes the last 20-30 feet to try and ensure the pads are not touching the rotors. Failure to do so can result in cracked rotors and 'wrapped' rotor feel.

 

FYI OP when I suggested new calipers it was an upgraded kit I was referring to. Replacing the stock for stock should have no change unless one is seized.

I found the SS lines to be noticeable in my mountain runs. Which may benefit the OP since he is in CO.

Maybe, but unless you did the lines ALONE without doing anything else, you can't objectively say that it was the lines. The only true test would be to have known good lines and fluid in the car and go for a spin. Then return, and swap the lines only, and go for a spin again.

 

Doing anything else introduces a lot of other factors into the equation (i.e.old lines were aging, fluid was contaminated, different pads, etc.)

 

A lot of people that claim SS lines "make a difference" frequently did everything at once and attributed the improvement to the lines themselves, when it was really a combination of everything else.

 

See my own review:

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ss-lines-pads-and-oem-rotors-done-separately-my-98800.html?t=98800

As far as the 20-30 feet method, it won't work, not well enough to prevent the pad deposits... The last 20-30 feet coming to a complete stop, you're going so slow already that the pads will STILL be contacting the rotor a tiny bit when you come to a stop. There are a few things that will cause your pistons/pads to retract:

- the return spring (not sure if all pads have them on our cars. Hawk HPS do.)

- the piston boots/seals (very weak return force)

- Bernoulli effect (only works when your rotors are spinning FAST)

 

The only way to be sure prior to coming to a complete stop after a fast and hard drive is to drive around and give the brakes time to cool properly. If you do that, you shouldn't get the vibration problem from pad deposits.

I'll add to iNVARs response and say that I did lines alone, after installing the following: GS MCB, and Stoptech rotors/pads with fresh fluid; and the difference is negligible at best. It's placebo if you think it made a difference (or your OEM lines were shot all to hell, and even new OEM would have given the same effect). Only reason I did them is because they came with my Stoptech sport kit and the price was free for the lines with a discount on the kit.

 

MCB works and is a noticeable improvement (I also did this alone with totally OEM worn brakes). This has been reproduced by many here.

Sorry to threadjack here, but why all the hate against re-surfacing rotors? I am genuinely curious.

 

Typically rotor material is taken away in the process, thinning the rotor is equal to extra wear. Many dealerships do this out of practice. If you're staying with the same pad and there are no deep grooves in the rotor it's not required.

The GS MCB is an immediate improvement in feel, even at a standstill. The moment you install it and get in the car and step on the pedal, you notice it's firmer. I'm going to loosen mine up again when I have a chance, just to go back to to old feel and remind myself about what a great purchase it was.

Didn't suggest that replacing calipers resulted in better braking! was merely stating that I had also replaced them when replacing pads and rotors which was what improved my braking!

Maybe, but unless you did the lines ALONE without doing anything else, you can't objectively say that it was the lines. The only true test would be to have known good lines and fluid in the car and go for a spin. Then return, and swap the lines only, and go for a spin again.

 

Doing anything else introduces a lot of other factors into the equation (i.e.old lines were aging, fluid was contaminated, different pads, etc.)

 

A lot of people that claim SS lines "make a difference" frequently did everything at once and attributed the improvement to the lines themselves, when it was really a combination of everything else.

 

See my own review:

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ss-lines-pads-and-oem-rotors-done-separately-my-98800.html?t=98800

 

Did them alone.

 

As far as the 20-30 feet method, it won't work, not well enough to prevent the pad deposits... The last 20-30 feet coming to a complete stop, you're going so slow already that the pads will STILL be contacting the rotor a tiny bit when you come to a stop. There are a few things that will cause your pistons/pads to retract:

- the return spring (not sure if all pads have them on our cars. Hawk HPS do.)

- the piston boots/seals (very weak return force)

- Bernoulli effect (only works when your rotors are spinning FAST)

 

The only way to be sure prior to coming to a complete stop after a fast and hard drive is to drive around and give the brakes time to cool properly. If you do that, you shouldn't get the vibration problem from pad deposits.

 

20-30 feet was in reference to extreme heat caused by tracking the car. Everyone I track with does this, folks who fail to do so often have 'wrapped' or 'cracked' rotors. I'm coming from a tracking use here so maybe we're not on the same page. Goes without saying most folks do a few cool downs in the parking space helps.

 

That said I often just do one little run around before parking. Never cracked a rotor, though I've boiled stock fluids

There's a difference between coming to a full stop and slowing your car down. I don't know why your tracking friends would lift off the brakes 20-30 feet before they had to when slowing down but I can't see why it would help with rotor "warp" (pad deposits) when the car is still moving.

 

And if you're talking about stopping, not slowing down, then see my response earlier.

 

If you say "wrapped" instead of "warped" one more time, I'm going to smack you so hard that you fall flat on your face

^ maybe if u hit him hard enough that sticker on his windshield will fall off as well!!

There's a difference between coming to a full stop and slowing your car down. I don't know why your tracking friends would lift off the brakes 20-30 feet before they had to when slowing down but I can't see why it would help with rotor "warp" (pad deposits) when the car is still moving.

 

And if you're talking about stopping, not slowing down, then see my response earlier.

 

If you say "wrapped" instead of "warped" one more time, I'm going to smack you so hard that you fall flat on your face

 

Smack me I'm multi tasking here and I'm already a horrible speller

 

Talking about coming to a final stop after your tracking laps.

The GS MCB is an immediate improvement in feel, even at a standstill. The moment you install it and get in the car and step on the pedal, you notice it's firmer. I'm going to loosen mine up again when I have a chance, just to go back to to old feel and remind myself about what a great purchase it was.

 

I will be getting one of these.