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Final Suspension List? Gaah!


SubieBound

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Good gravy!

 

This is one of my first threads, but I have run into a bit of a dilemma. About a year ago I decided that the way I wanted to transform my '08 Spec.B was to change a specific area at a time. First up: suspension!

 

Well after months and months of researching and reviewing, I have come up with a final list of suspension pieces that add up to suit my way of 'spirited' driving. There are a few parts where I have not heard sufficient comments on and wanted to know first-hand feedback from enthusiasts who have either used the parts or have heard good/bad things about them:

 

 

1. Perrin 25mm front sway-bar

 

2. Perrin 25mm rear sway-bar

- What are your thoughts on running different thicknesses for the front and rear sway-bars?

 

3. Perrin front endlinks

 

4. Perrin rear endlinks

 

5. Cusco Front Lower Arm Bar (type II)

 

6. Cusco Rear Lower Arm Bar Set (type II)

 

7. Cusco front strut bar

 

8. Cusco rear strut bar

- regarding the Cusco strut bars, I have heard that rusting may occur along the strut brace area

- a friend suggested that I try the GT Spec strut bar. Your thoughts?

 

9. Perrin Positive Steering Response System (PSRS)

- heard that this is not good for when driving on uneven roads or speed bumps

- also heard that it may cause bending somewhere in the steering system, but is anybody with these have any thoughts?

 

10. Tein Flex Coilovers

 

11. Tein EDFC

 

Thank you SO much ahead of time for your thoughts, advice, and opinions! I appreciate it greatly!

 

 

~Ian

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If you have the time and are willing, I'd say do the suspension a piece at a time so that way as you change the way the car rides and handles, you'll know what you want to change next.

 

So with that, I'd start with the biggest change: Coilovers (the EDFC is just the electronic dampening adjusters right?). Then from there, the sway bars if you need them or want to finely alter the way it handles.

 

I have no experience with the arm bars and strut bars but similar to the sway bars, I'd think that they're more suited to minor tweaks. Btw, have you upgraded to better tires?

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1. Perrin 25mm front sway-bar

2. Perrin 25mm rear sway-bar

- What are your thoughts on running different thicknesses for the front and rear sway-bars?

 

3. Perrin front endlinks

4. Perrin rear endlinks

5. Cusco Front Lower Arm Bar (type II)

6. Cusco Rear Lower Arm Bar Set (type II)

7. Cusco front strut bar

8. Cusco rear strut bar

- regarding the Cusco strut bars, I have heard that rusting may occur along the strut brace area

- a friend suggested that I try the GT Spec strut bar. Your thoughts?

 

9. Perrin Positive Steering Response System (PSRS)

- heard that this is not good for when driving on uneven roads or speed bumps

- also heard that it may cause bending somewhere in the steering system, but is anybody with these have any thoughts?

10. Tein Flex Coilovers

11. Tein EDFC

Sway bar size is up to driver preference imo. Some prefer a slightly larger front bar. Others want a bigger bar out back. Personally I think going with the bars being the same size front and rear is a good starting point. You could always go with stiffer springs to balance the car how you want.

 

I think the strut braces are made out of aluminum.. so I would be surprised if they rusted. I'm not running any on my car though so can't say for sure.

 

For the PSRS, I would recommend starting with just upgraded steering rack bushing. The Spec B has superior control arms and with a poly steering rack bushing and proper alignment and tires, your steering feedback should be excellent. If you still are looking for more beyond that, then you need to consider the trade-off of NVH for steering feel that the PSRS would offer.

 

Any reason you are making the jump to coilovers? Do you need the adjustibility or planning to run very stiff spring rates? The Bilsteins are great. IMO the Bilsteins are a better quality damper than Tein Flex. Pair them up with a stiffer spring (such as STI pinks) along with sway bars and the car handles nicely while remaining comfortable. EDFC is basically a toy. Some people like to pay a premium for it but a person should be realistic about how often they really need to adjust the damping of their coilovers. My $.02. It's your car :)

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Any reason you are making the jump to coilovers? Do you need the adjustibility or planning to run very stiff spring rates? The Bilsteins are great. IMO the Bilsteins are a better quality damper than Tein Flex. Pair them up with a stiffer spring (such as STI pinks) along with sway bars and the car handles nicely while remaining comfortable. EDFC is basically a toy. Some people like to pay a premium for it but a person should be realistic about how often they really need to adjust the damping of their coilovers. My $.02. It's your car :)

Coilovers are great.

Check that, good coilovers are great.

Bilstien and Pinks will be good enough for 80% of drivers here and will be better than 90% of the coilovers on the market for our car.

I have not drive then Teins for this car, but in general, Tein is considered, huuum, how do I put this delicately, crap.

Consider The Racecomps/KWs if you're married to coilovers. Only get coilovers if you know what you're buying them (please tell me it isn't to lower the car, or get that right "stance").

Or you can save almost $1000 and get bilstiens and pinks. If you know why you want coils, have the money, and can get the difference out of them, by all means buy them. Otherwise, the pinks might be better.

 

Disclosure: I have racecomp tarmacs. I love them.

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I concur with these guys^

 

Those swaybars are beefy... maybe start with something more mild and better matched. The car, in stock form, is greatly biased towards understeer because of the 21mmF/16mmR bars. Even just increasing the rear bar thickness will reduce body roll and make the car more neutral in cornering. If you go too thick with the bars, without upgrading your tires, you are reducing overall traction, particularly if you hit a bump mid-turn.

 

Personally I think endlinks and rear swaybar mounts are great. Poly swaybar bushings too if they aren't included.

 

The lower arm bars are great... get them.

 

Strut tower bars are pretty much unnecessary.

 

Go with a polyurethane control arm bushing rather than the PSRS. It will be more compliant but still worlds better than stock. There are also Group N variants which will replace the front and rear bushings in the front control arm.

 

Keep the Bilsteins... they are the B in your spec.b :lol:. If the ride height is too much for you go with Pinks for OEM quality. With coilovers you can get stiffer springs, better damping (with adjustability to boot), and control your ride height, but you need to do your research and get a quality coilover, not just based on price. KW is widely regarded as a quality brand (the RaceComp Tarmacs are rebranded/tweaked KW V.2s, I haz dem) and so is Bilstein (PSS9 needs to be imported).

 

I would also recommend the whiteline roll-center correction kit if you plan on dropping the car below .5"-1". When you lower the car you change the static position of the suspension in its camber curve. The RCK will offset that change and reduce body roll at the front axle and also reduce bump-steer.

 

However, MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure your tires and alignment are in good working order! If you are dropping the car at all you may want to consider adjustable rear lateral links so you can control the rear camber.

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Steering rack bushings, Group N motor, tranny and front strut mounts are also good. Rear diffy locking bolts and the whiteline subframe bushings are also real good.

 

Konis + Pinks are a great combo that I use on my track LGT that also sees street duty. Turn em down for street, up for track.

 

Only get coilovers if you are ready for rebuilds, and the stiffness they provide.

 

The chassis bracing is a good portion bling factor, similar to strut tower bars IMO.

 

-mike

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Tien flex coilovers are spectacular!! I have had them on my car for about a year now and I have no complaints. They are comfortable enough for daily driving and aggresive enough for autox days. As for the EDFC it really is for the lazy guy who doesnt want to get out of his car and count the number of clicks to adjust the dampening force (would take 1-2 minutes if done manually, so its not worth the 400 or 500 bucks to me, to do this from inside the car).

 

I went with Progress front and rear sways and GTSpec front and rear strut tower bars and I honestly love my setup. The car feels very responsive to driver input. I have to get endlinks next as mine are still stock.

 

I installed the coilovers first, (huge difference over stock) then installed the sways and strut tower bars about a month later, and they really made a significant difference over just the coils.

 

g/l

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Thank you so far for the help! I'm doing some quick calculations in my head and sure enough, I'm saving a grand just by dropping the Teins (which I THOUGHT were super quality coilovers because some of the tightest Legacys around here were running them).

 

Revised list!

 

1. Perrin 22mm front sway-bar

 

2. Perrin 22mm rear sway-bar

- Instead of the 25mm, which I think is too much for a beginner like me

 

3. Perrin front endlinks

 

4. Perrin rear endlinks

 

5. Cusco Front Lower Arm Bar (type II)

 

6. Cusco Rear Lower Arm Bar Set (type II)

 

7. GT Spec front strut bar

- Anybody heard of GT Spec or tried them?

 

8. GT Spec rear strut bar

- Seeing that these are more for the 'bling' factor, I can live with a little experiment and try the GT Specs instead of Cusco.

 

9. PU control arm bushings

- This is to replace the Perrin Positive Steering Response System (PSRS)

- Anybody have suggestions as to a reputable

 

10. Pinks

- People keep suggesting the pairing of Bilsteins and Pinks. Well, I am assuming that since I already have the Bilsteins, all I need are the Pinks

- Are there variations in Pinks or is there only one kind out there?

- Who carries this stuff?

 

11. Additional considerations

- I've cut out the Tein EDFC, because someone made a good point: how often will I actually USE the thing

- I am considering the KW coilovers. I know there are different variations, but which does everybody else suggest?

 

Thank you! These new additions are really starting to fit what I'm looking for haha and yes... the coilovers were pretty much for "stance" :icon_mrgr

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are you going to be tracking your car alot?

 

combined, these will stiffen up the car a lot to the point where i think it would barely be comfortable as a DD

 

it's really overkill if you're looking just to spruce up the suspension a tiny bit for some spirited driving.

 

RCE tarmacs are essentially KWs with better valving from my understanding. from whoreing the forums i would say they're probably the best coilover avail for legacy at this moment if you want to DD your car still. maybe aside from the bilstein PSS but you'll never find a set of those. i've also only heard good things about tein flex? so not sure where other comments are coming from. however they are more suited for track applications.

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I've ran PSRS system before, made the front end feel a lot more precise, night and day difference in my book. The con to is that since its solid, you will feel everything transmitted back, it increased my dash rattle a good amount. But I do miss the way the car drove with them installed, took out a lot of the front end looseness.
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I'm getting a lot of mixed feedback on Tein products. It was my understanding that they could be adjusted quite easily to provide a more comfortable DD type of ride, as well as tightening for racing days.

 

Now I'm torn between:

1. Tein Flex

2. Bilstein (stock) plus Pinks

3. Tarmac

 

Definitely heard pros and cons about all three. Actually, I don't think I've heard anything negative about the Pinks combo thus far. But yeah, the roads get very rough during the winter (which is about 8 months of the year).

 

Looking for a combo that won't shatter my spinal column :lol:

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I defintely agree with going for the 22mm bars over the 25mm ones, especially if you're going to be on coilovers. They just don't need to be that big for the Legacy IMO for most cases.

 

What kind of tires and what size are you running?

 

Myles (RCE owner) has run a ton of different set-ups on his Legacy Spec B, including Bilstein + Pinks, Bilstein + Swift, KW V2, and of course our RCE Tarmacs. Feel free to give us a call and he can talk you through a lot of the different options what works and WHY it works.

 

- Andrew

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If you're going to track your car at all, i'd recommend this build:

 

1) Tires - OEM tires get greasy after couple laps on the track, and could feel them pushing out early in the mid turn. They were good enough to have fun, and defenitely good enough for spirited mountain runs, but since it looks like you really want to carry speed through your turns with all your suspension mods, the OEM's will really hold you back.

 

2) springs - Pinks are a great choice. I went with Ralliteks to keep it comfortable as my DD, but I may get the pinks down the road after i get better tires.

 

3) Sway bars - The reason I'd put in springs first, is because your car will react differently depending on which springs you choose. ie, with my ralliteks i'm getting more over steer, which makes it fun to push the throttle and drift around corners. I'm looking into getting Perrin 25mm fronts, and 22mm rears, so that I can make the car more neutral again hopefully.

 

4) Bushings! - Helps alot with the feel of the car. I use the AVO LCA bushings, and got the stiffer steering and more planted feel that I was looking for. NVH did go up alot, but the ralliteks also kept it comfortable. Bumps are noticeable, but not jarring/annoying. If the steering still isn't tight enough for you, you can add the additional steering rack bushings. Another plus is that these bushings are cheap. If you get coilovers though, you might not need these, and may want to keep the stockers to keep the NVH down.

 

5) i'm also looking into the lower arms bars for added stiffness.

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Revised list!

 

1. Perrin 22mm front sway-bar

 

2. Perrin 25mm rear sway-bar

 

3. Tires, oh how important tires are ;)

 

4. I am considering the KW coilovers. I know there are different variations, but which does everybody else suggest?

 

Done...thats really all you need. The rest, besides the bushing, for the amount of money you spend on those pieces you really will not really notice any difference in handling.

 

Get some nice coilovers and swaybars that suit your driving style. Stock endlinks will be fine until they break ;) then you can replace them. Move on to brakes after the suspension then go stage II, after that you will be hooked!

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just to throw this in, but I was thinking of the tokico hts struts and pinks. i herd that the tokico are good also. they are adjustable also.

 

Just from what I have researched I have heard that the Konis are a better route to go then the Tokico....

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Looks like tires have also entered the arena... fantastic. In all honesty, I wasn't going to replace my tires until I got a new set of rims (which would be roughly a year from now). Plan was to go with Falkens, not because of experience, but because I have heard so many good things about them!

 

Tein? or not to Tein... that is the question. Hmmm...:confused:

 

I mean, it WOULD be nice to have a few more greenbacks in my pockets haha

 

Maybe I should throw it out there that this Legacy project is destined to be not just for speed and handling, but also a show car. But bodywork is the last stage of the Legacy (right after audio).

 

Sorry, got off topic: BACK TO SUSPENSION! :lol:

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Looking at the price of the Teins you're in RCE tarmac country. If you're dropping that kind of coin, get the ones with the better dampers (RCE). Also, if you're in a part of canada that gets winter the Tramacs are stainless. After a Minnesota winter, mine look like new. (They also took 1st in a local ice time trial)

If you don't want or need that, the pinks are a better choice. Well your car see the track or autocross? If you say no, get the pinks. If you says yes, get the coilovers if you know what you want them.

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just to throw this in, but I was thinking of the tokico hts struts and pinks. i herd that the tokico are good also. they are adjustable also.

 

editing for clarity: I put Tokico HTS dampers on my car a few weeks ago and I'm happy with them.

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coilovers are only if you want to go to a big track and race. They are a waist of money for a daily driver and if you are going to auto cross a couple of times.

 

I disagree. Coilovers certainly have their place on daily-driven vehicles. There is no magic pixie dust that makes them different from normal fixed-perch strut/spring combos. It all comes down to what the user wants. If you want height and damping adjustability and a wide range of spring rates, coilovers may be the right fit for you.

 

I went from Konis/Swifts to RCE Tarmacs and not only does the car track flatter due to the stiffer springs, it rides and handles much much better because the springs and dampers are matched to each other. I've also adjusted my ride height to get the desired stance (not slammed BTW, check my mod list for details). I haven't had to tweak the damping much because they were shipped preset at recommended settings from RaceComp although I plan on experimenting when I get a bit more time.

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