Could they be....THAT WRONG......

For many years I've been a subscriber to Consumer Reports,,I fact along with Road & Track ,they are the only magazines concerning cars I might delve into.

 

What perplexes Thetoad,is this discrepancy in the 06 ,or other 4th generation Legacy's as per it's reliability rating.No mention is given to its clutch( mine shot after 20.6) brakes,,,,front and rear the same.Bear in mind at least 5k miles were spend on non stop driving to Pittsburg .

 

Am I wrong to assume my B is an anomaly ,,,,,,or is it that due dilligence in reporting its shortcomings was not present......

 

I've unfortunately read about other problems plaguing this "reliable car"

 

Am I mistaken,,,,,,,,you tell me .....

Did you just refer to yourself in the third person? George is getting very upset!

 

Consumer Reports data is collected from people who choose to respond to their survey. Is it statistically relevant? I have no idea. It's not a particularly scientific way to measure failure rates though. I would guess that Subaru of America has much more reliable data on failure rates based on dealer service data that they have no intention of sharing though.

 

Regardless, the anecdotal evidence that you read on here is hardly representative of the entire range of Legacys sold by SoA. My guess is that they are pretty reliable overall and spec.B owners have slightly higher failure rates because they push them harder and LGT.com members have slightly higher failure rates because they push them harder.

 

There are a fair number of failed turbo threads here, but I don't know that that necessarily indicates that there are a lot of failed turbos in Subarus. (My own failing turbo notwithstanding )

 

Honestly, I don't know the actual truth, but I suspect it has to something to do with the discrepancy between anecdotal evidence and actual statistical data.

I think overall the 4th gen is very reliable. The clutch and brake issues you describe are not common as far as i have read or experienced myself. There have been alot of blown turbos mainly due to oil starvation issues, but i think in the big picture there are relatively few cases..

Well first off Let's just say no matter what car show you watch or what car magazine you read they are all paid into by car companies.

It used to be that they would pay to get good reviews but that has changed over the past 10 years. Now everyone pays them to test them out and whats said is said. Think of it this way if you were to get a raise at your job from your boss you wouldn't be giving him a bad review to his boss now would you? Anyway everyone has differences with cars. Take my buddies 08 EVO X a few people had a clutch burn out at 12k and other around 20k he beats on his car as well as DD's it to. His car has around 35k and the clutch feels just as new as it did from day one. I know when I owned my Acura RSX there were people that happen to get what we called the Frankenstein motor. What it was is the motor was built the same as the rest but for some unknown reason would put 40+ more HP then the rest of us. It's just the luck of the draw really.

Yes,,George saw it.Im sorry,,however once in awhile the third person comes in,,along with excessive commas...

 

I've driven this car only moderately spirited if such a category exists.considering nearly a quarter of its miles we're logged on I 76 ,and the PA. Pike,with little or no traffic makes me wonder.

 

This must be considered my very first performance car,and I've certainly not stretched it,indeed I've sheltered it.As I may have mentioned previously when the need to pass at 75 and it does it so effortlessly ,,it's a joy to behold,,as long as your over 3k Tach numbers.

 

One of the reasons I bought this,,,besides the $7large deduction in price was its heritage.The kinks...eliminated...refinements added..

 

Only time will tell...

My 2005 LGT Wagon has been the most reliable car I've ever had. 147K miles, will do first brake job at 150K. No problems except replaced the front lower control arm bushings twice (first time in warranty); a pretty minor thing.

Did anyone else have a hard time reading op's post ?

Let the truth be known......The N.Y. Giants were my main squeeze..

 

It was very tough for me to concentrate for the verbiage required to post after the results seen today.For that forgive me..

 

This might be my 9th or 10th car.....ranging from my first ,,,a 1971 canary yellow convertible,,,3 other beetles,,,a 1974 VW. Kubelwagon (burnt orange) 3 maybe 4 toyotas ,,,which performed admiralty ..a forrester ,and finally the B

 

Subaru is a niche car company,,filling in the voids left by all other manufacturers,and tailoring their advertising to the teachers/ doctors/ecologists and all others who may appreciate a green lifestyle.

 

Their engineers ,when given the chance indulge themselves in rally racing and the like,however they know where their milk is buttered..Just look at the shows they sponsor on PBS.

 

I was drawn to them for one reason,,their insistence on all wheel drive vehicles,,save for that attempt into a rear wheel sports car. I

Still think its a unique company,,and like Toyota who OVER ENGINEERED their entry level cars to make them ÜBER reliable will standby their most recent products.

 

It was not too long ago,that anything with the moniker "Made In Japan" carried a heavy weight to bear..They ended that,as I mentioned by producing incredibly reliable specimens,,,,not to mention reasonably priced.

 

Am I writing a book here?

 

Oh.....tomorrow is New Years eve,,,,,take care,,,& try to understand this rambling discourse.....

My car has been quite unreliable as of late. I bought mine with 60k miles on it. Within the first month the throttle body and wiring harness for it had to be replaced. This was due to the rust that made its way into the connector so i dont think thats too big on the reliablitiy factor. The next thing to go wrong was the oem flywheel broke in the first month. Never launched it or anything. Replaced it wih a single mass flywheel and exedy replacement clutch and still going strong with over 200 launches on it.

 

But the big biter was my pistons. My first set of pistons lasted 84k miles. So the shortblock was replaced and had a new sti block put in. This one lasted 4k miles. So theres an issue someone that needs to be resolved. My car wasnt 100% stock so i cant vouch for the oem reliablity but ive seen so high milage people on this forum with few problems.

I would say very reliable car. For how I drive it (35k a yr.). As fare as brakes & rotors, I'm on my 2nd set of rotors & brakes pads last 55k-70k. OEM 5MT clutch start slipping at 63k.

 

Over 210k.

Stage 2 Costume T.A. Tune, 18.5 peak boost, Avg. 24mpg

IIRC, Parts I have replace do to failure or show signs of failure. Regular maintenance stuff not included.

-5mt, 50+ runs down drag strip & some miss shift. (Replaced with STi 6MT)

-DS front wheel bearings 4

-DS rear wheel bearings 3

-PS front wheel bearings 4

-PS rear wheel bearings 2

-Countless low beams head lights. before DRL delete.

-Thermostat

-Alternator

-Crank pulley

-Radiator

-2 Lower ball joint RH & LH

-Turbo inlet tube

 

Mike

Knock on wood, my leggy has been good to me. (93000 miles later). I have noticed how hard it is to locate 4th gen leggys. One may conclude that the cars are very dependable (hence we don't sell them), or that we love them too much to never let them go. I always like looking at the TSB, when I considering buying a car.

2006

http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/55/06550563.html

2008

http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/55/08550563.html

Consumer Reports realibility ratings seem to be very reflective of the overall picture.

For example, the 08-09 turbo Subaru's used to have a black rating rating on Engine (Major), due to the number of spun rod bearings.

 

Keep in mind, the majority of CR readers probably bought automatics, so clutch data will be very light.

Brake wear seems very mild on these cars, I'm at 40k on my brakes and they should easily run to beyond 60k.

 

The vast majority of users on here push their car FAR FAR harder than the average CR reader.

I think there's a lot of factor in here.

 

If you're looking at reliability you need to look at this car across options from everyone else. In my opinion the only makers 'more' reliable are Honda and Toyota. For years Toyota has had the lowest service cost per mile of anyone. The fact is though they don't make a car like the Legacy. Honda does but it's the Acura TL SH-AWD, spendy and bigger car.

 

Subaru in my eyes falls between Honda/Toyota and GM/Ford in build, closer to their Japanese counter parts but with the 'we build tractors' lack of solid engineering. For decades their h4 was 'more efficient' yet no figures actually back this up. Go grab a late 90's legacy and it feels like it's going to die near red line. Toyota or Honda love to be rev'd.

 

As for general build quality, the interiors have vastly improved over the years. On the 99 Legacy the stupid cup holders blocked radio/climate controls/middle vents - morons build that center deck. However the motor and tranny ran for 200k without issue.

 

I think what's starting to catch up to Subaru is the lack of innovation. For the most part, their line has been suck on the AWD platform they developed 20 years ago. They no longer 'rally' and until US MPG standards were forced on them they were happy to have piss power MPG. In europe they make a 55mpg legacy diesel which I'd love to own.

 

As for what CR reports, it's considered generally to be a reasonable 'gauge' as to how the car will perform over the long run. It's not sceince, nor gossiple so factor this in.

 

My experience with Subaru over the last 20 years is they make a 'good' car. It's not a 'great' car but much of that is out of your control. On an older Subi we had the alternator go, and get recalled, and we even had a suspension mount blow up while parked - thankfully it didn't happen while on the road. Subaru of the 90's backed up the car and fixed it all. We were only out a small amount of coin.

 

If I compare this to the domestics - they've been in the shop more than I'd care. The German cars, electrical or motor issues that are just unacceptable. The only brands I've had trouble free use of is the Toyota's and Honda's I've had in my garage. My unscientific measure of these brands is also reflected in my friends and family.

 

I wouldn't consider a Subaru well serviced to have reliability issues.

Yes,,George saw it.Im sorry,,however once in awhile the third person comes in,,along with excessive commas...

 

I've driven this car only moderately spirited if such a category exists.considering nearly a quarter of its miles we're logged on I 76 ,and the PA. Pike,with little or no traffic makes me wonder.

 

This must be considered my very first performance car,and I've certainly not stretched it,indeed I've sheltered it.As I may have mentioned previously when the need to pass at 75 and it does it so effortlessly ,,it's a joy to behold,,as long as your over 3k Tach numbers.

 

One of the reasons I bought this,,,besides the $7large deduction in price was its heritage.The kinks...eliminated...refinements added..

 

Only time will tell...

 

I think you're mistaken if you think this is a performance car. This is a family sedan with soft suspension, poor brakes, bad handling and a turbo that gives reasonable mid-range TQ figures. GT badge doesn't make it a performance car.

 

When you go to push the stock car to it's limits it's short comings are glaringly scary. Bad turn in, heavy front end, weak top end power, massive body roll, poor driver feedback and brakes you can destroy in a mountain pass.

 

I think for a 'fun' family sedan with AWD and some TQ to make on ramps fun you'll find this car to be just as build. Car & Driver ripped the 4th gen apart in their reviews and gave a lower powered, fwd 4cyc the 1st place in sport sedans.

 

If you keep this all in mind I think what you'll enjoy about this car is the reasonable build quality, low price and added benefit of AWD.

 

I bought this car because my then wife and I wanted an AWD sedan, with great crash ratings (5 star all around) and I was pushed to buy this Subi. We got it for a killer deal, and while much of the car I really dislike (engineering wise) I've decided I will keep it for the short term as my winter beater. Few people own such nice cars, never mind have them for 4 months of snowy weather like me.

 

If you want to improve the car I'd suggestion:

1. Upgrade brakes - lines, fluid, rotors and pads

2. Upgrade suspension with aims to reduce body roll

3. Stage 1 & or bigger turbo

 

If you managed to do all 3 of those the car starts getting in the zone of the GT badge and than might start to become a 'performance' sedan. Otherwise in it's stock form it's not much different from a honda or toyota v6 sedan.

 

Enjoy the car. I'll get flamed for the critical feedback of this 'God's gift to awd turbo car fans' who frequent this forum.

I think you're mistaken if you think this is a performance car. This is a family sedan with soft suspension, poor brakes, bad handling and a turbo that gives reasonable mid-range TQ figures. GT badge doesn't make it a performance car.

 

When you go to push the stock car to it's limits it's short comings are glaringly scary. Bad turn in, heavy front end, weak top end power, massive body roll, poor driver feedback and brakes you can destroy in a mountain pass.

 

I think for a 'fun' family sedan with AWD and some TQ to make on ramps fun you'll find this car to be just as build. Car & Driver ripped the 4th gen apart in their reviews and gave a lower powered, fwd 4cyc the 1st place in sport sedans.

 

If you keep this all in mind I think what you'll enjoy about this car is the reasonable build quality, low price and added benefit of AWD.

 

I bought this car because my then wife and I wanted an AWD sedan, with great crash ratings (5 star all around) and I was pushed to buy this Subi. We got it for a killer deal, and while much of the car I really dislike (engineering wise) I've decided I will keep it for the short term as my winter beater. Few people own such nice cars, never mind have them for 4 months of snowy weather like me.

 

If you want to improve the car I'd suggestion:

1. Upgrade brakes - lines, fluid, rotors and pads

2. Upgrade suspension with aims to reduce body roll

3. Stage 1 & or bigger turbo

 

If you managed to do all 3 of those the car starts getting in the zone of the GT badge and than might start to become a 'performance' sedan. Otherwise in it's stock form it's not much different from a honda or toyota v6 sedan.

 

Enjoy the car. I'll get flamed for the critical feedback of this 'God's gift to awd turbo car fans' who frequent this forum.

 

Says the guy with the 5eat

Says the guy with the 5eat

And what does that have to do with anything:confused::spin:

 

Mike

As I mentioned many of the cars I've owned starting with my much loved 1971 canary yellow Karmann Ghia convertible ,to the Kubelwagon ,3 different toyotas ,,one Nissan,and a 165 horse forrester ,,,,,,,

 

Yes to me ,a 2006 B is a performance car,,,granted not in the rarified airs of Modena ,,,Italy .but decent considering it's weight.

 

I've heard problems about Legacy's 2nd gear for instance ,and indeed since I bought it..new..it does not mesh as easily as the others.

 

As far as I know,,Consumer Reports does not accept advertising,and certainly is not a shill,,,like maybe car & driver is.Id be embarrassed if caught reading one.

 

The point made about lack of development,or resting on laurels is well made...it's almost as if ingenuity died after the original 4 flat was up sized to even a six......on the horizon ,,who knows.There is however something to be said about refinements.

 

Consider the Porsche 911 ,,,,relatively unchanged since it replaced the 356 in what....... 1955 or so....it's now 2013 ...it's still their best seller...

 

Hope all came through last night unscathed ,,,,,,,

I think you're mistaken if you think this is a performance car. This is a family sedan with soft suspension, poor brakes, bad handling and a turbo that gives reasonable mid-range TQ figures. GT badge doesn't make it a performance car.

 

When you go to push the stock car to it's limits it's short comings are glaringly scary. Bad turn in, heavy front end, weak top end power, massive body roll, poor driver feedback and brakes you can destroy in a mountain pass.

 

I think for a 'fun' family sedan with AWD and some TQ to make on ramps fun you'll find this car to be just as build. Car & Driver ripped the 4th gen apart in their reviews and gave a lower powered, fwd 4cyc the 1st place in sport sedans.

 

If you keep this all in mind I think what you'll enjoy about this car is the reasonable build quality, low price and added benefit of AWD.

 

I bought this car because my then wife and I wanted an AWD sedan, with great crash ratings (5 star all around) and I was pushed to buy this Subi. We got it for a killer deal, and while much of the car I really dislike (engineering wise) I've decided I will keep it for the short term as my winter beater. Few people own such nice cars, never mind have them for 4 months of snowy weather like me.

 

If you want to improve the car I'd suggestion:

1. Upgrade brakes - lines, fluid, rotors and pads

2. Upgrade suspension with aims to reduce body roll

3. Stage 1 & or bigger turbo

 

If you managed to do all 3 of those the car starts getting in the zone of the GT badge and than might start to become a 'performance' sedan. Otherwise in it's stock form it's not much different from a honda or toyota v6 sedan.

 

Enjoy the car. I'll get flamed for the critical feedback of this 'God's gift to awd turbo car fans' who frequent this forum.

 

At least you knew that you were going to get flamed for your comments..

 

I really didn't want to respond, but these are the same complaints you've had in multiple other posts. Didn't you get the feedback you were looking for?

 

You're crazy if you put this car in the same category as a v6 accord. I'm starting to think the problem isn't in the car, but the consumer.

 

If you want more driver feel, swap bushings. Less body roll, sways. If you want to have fun while driving, don't buy an automatic. If you want your brakes to last, once again, don't buy 3500lb automatic. If you want a lgt with good handling, don't buy an automatic.

 

I'm thinking you just don't understand Subaru engineering, and that's why you don't like it. It's funny.. my girlfriend does the same thing, so I'm familiar with your perspective.

When a so called enthusiast quotes "car & driver" as a reputable source of information,,,,,,who hammers subarus engineering prowess..

 

I am very comfortable in the decision I made.

 

Did I hear low..high end acceleration...surely you jest.

Subaru has,and always will be a niche car company,filling in gaps left by the larger entities ,and in doing so has produced enjoyable products,easily modified,at a price most can afford.

Says the guy with the 5eat

 

Yet all my comments apply... thanks for playing

 

You're probably unaware of this but the 5eat pushes the rear end with a 45/55 rear biased, instead of the 5 speed stick version which is 50/50. If you want to really push a car to the limits you want the back end getting a bit more power in an AWD setup.

When a so called enthusiast quotes "car & driver" as a reputable source of information,,,,,,who hammers subarus engineering prowess..

 

I am very comfortable in the decision I made.

 

Did I hear low..high end acceleration...surely you jest.

Subaru has,and always will be a niche car company,filling in gaps left by the larger entities ,and in doing so has produced enjoyable products,easily modified,at a price most can afford.

 

You made a good purchase. Not sure I said anything contrary. If you re-read I specifically stated it was a 'good' buy.

 

You mentioned road and track, should I flame you for reading a pathetic publication that is consistently 'bought' by it's advertisers? No I didn't do that. Enjoy your car. It's a good family sedan

At least you knew that you were going to get flamed for your comments..

 

I really didn't want to respond, but these are the same complaints you've had in multiple other posts. Didn't you get the feedback you were looking for?

 

You're crazy if you put this car in the same category as a v6 accord. I'm starting to think the problem isn't in the car, but the consumer.

 

If you want more driver feel, swap bushings. Less body roll, sways. If you want to have fun while driving, don't buy an automatic. If you want your brakes to last, once again, don't buy 3500lb automatic. If you want a lgt with good handling, don't buy an automatic.

 

I'm thinking you just don't understand Subaru engineering, and that's why you don't like it. It's funny.. my girlfriend does the same thing, so I'm familiar with your perspective.

 

If you want to discuss the engineering down falls of this car you're welcome to open a thread about it. There are many of them, and a good car company shouldn't be repeating in this day and age.

There's no point in starting a new thread to cover that.. I could just use the search and find a handful of engineering flaws.

 

It's easy to complain about a cars design flaws when your only perspective is from the drivers seat.. If you actually worked on the car yourself you would know that the guys were brilliant. I've worked on a lot of stupid cars.. this is far from it.

 

I'm not going to knock Honda.. they are doing things right. I even heard that they will buy back a car if the engine blows within warranty, take the car to a plant and reverse engineer the mode of failure. BUT, they're not in this market. The Acura awd is way overpriced, and for a reason. It's complex. The legacy is less expensive, yet still complex.

 

There is a point where the quality of the car is compromised by the price point. I'll trade a few known design flaws for the many known design successes that come with these cars. The platform is well worth it.

That was a succinct reply to a great question.

 

When does the old design warrant a new look.All I can point to is a design that not only is older than you (probably) and then the need for a change.I speak of the Porsche 911 design.Its refinements are endless,in fact mr. Ferdinand Porsche may not even recognize his creation.

 

To say the horizontally opposed setup of subaru engine or their lack of new products I'd say is inaccurate.

 

This company was not designed to directly compete with the Toyota's of the world.Id be willing to say they are happy where they are.A steadfast following,good green reviews by the environmentalists ,easy and widespread modifications,,,,,yes I'd venture to say...there content.

 

 

Who knows what is in the pipeline....