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Complete Review of Mr_Luv HID Retro's w/ pics!


Detslider

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What follows is a summary of my experiences so for with the lights I purchased thru the HID Retro Group Buy (GB) offered by Tommy Love aka Mr_Luv.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78857

 

I originally chose these lights after doing some limited research into HID “kits” and saw frequent mention of their poor performance and incompatibility with our stock housings (I know there are many people who will read this and could argue the contrary though I ask that you try and convince me in different thread). I had also wanted some new housings since mine showed some damage from road debris so I contacted Tommy and placed an order for a set of lights with every option available. Total cost was $950.00

 

When I first entered the GB I noticed that an expected delivery date was not posted but Tommy addressed this in one of his e-mail’s to me when he stated that he had all the parts on hand except for the new housings and as soon as I sent payment he “can get them started and knocked out”.

 

I sent payment via Paypal on February 27, 2008.

 

On March 21st I received an PM from Tommy that they were all done except for being blacked out

 

Tommy contacted me approximately a week later to let me know that they were done but he wouldn’t be able to deliver them to me because he was having his car worked on, I agreed to meet him 30 miles away in Sterling, VA on March 30th to pick them up.

 

I picked them up, installed them without issue and returned home at which point I realized that he had installed Lexus projectors rather than the Infinity bi-xenon projectors I had ordered. I immediately contacted Tommy about the mistake and began discussing how to get the lights back to him.

 

That night I took some pictures of the Lexus lights to compare them to pictures I had already taken of the stock lights.

All of the below night time comparison shots were taken with the same camera with the same ISO Speed, F-Stop, focal Length and exposure time.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/lostock.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/hidlow.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00458.jpg

 

The process of returning the lights became an issue of disagreement between us but in short he wanted me to deliver them back to him or pay for shipping. I was not pleased that his error would cost me additional time and money and would have preferred he offer to pick them up or pay for shipping. In the end I did drive another 30 miles away to deliver them back to him on April 19th in Silver Springs, MD. The only explanation he offered me was that the lights were built incorrectly due to “miscommunication”. I don’t know what possible miscommunication there could have been; the bill he sent me was very clear about exactly what kind of lights I was paying for. It seems to me it would have been easy to refer to that when building the lights.

 

At this point I was quite frustrated that I’d had to log over 120 miles and several hours of my time because Tommy was unable to deliver as promised and his lack of attention to detail.

 

Man I will install them for you too!!! Locals get VIP Concierge service Ask CrazyKen and SeoulSista!!!

 

By early May I had not heard anything back from Tommy so I contacted him via PM on May 3rd to get an update. He replied that one light was done but it would be a “week or 2 or 3” before the pair was ready for delivery and he had other orders to fulfill before working on my lights. Obviously getting the lights done and delivered was no longer a priority for him.

 

On May 15th Tommy sent me a PM letting me know they were done, on the 20th he agreed to mail them to me and that they would ship on the 22nd. I was provided a tracking number on the 29th.

 

The lights arrived at my office on May 30th and I had them installed that afternoon. Just over 13 weeks had passed since I placed the order. I had the Lexus lights three weeks while I was out of the country. Total time to send the correct lights was 10 weeks.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/lostock.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00718.jpg

 

On May 31st I noticed both lights had developed condensation on the inside. I contacted Tommy via text message to inform him. On June 2nd he replied via PM and suggested I put a few silica gel packs in the lights to absorb any moisture. I e-mailed him the following pictures on June 4th to show this was a larger problem than silica could solve.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/NewImage.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/NewImage2.jpg

 

Again Tommy wanted me to deliver or pay for shipping back to him. Both options would (and already had in the past) cost me at least $25 if not more. I find this completely ridiculous that his errors keep costing me time and money, especially when I am in his own definition “local”. Why is he so unwilling to pick them up or pay for the shipping?

 

I hadn’t had much reason to head out at night to fully test these lights but do remember at least onece around dusk I had noticed the lights didn’t seem to maintain a consistent brightness, I figured this might be the lights warming up or “bouncing”. It wasn’t until June 8th when someone pointed it out that I realized that the driver side light was actually working intermittently. I again contacted Tommy about the failing lights and informed him that I suspected it was just a loose wire. Tommy responds with “I cannot verify what you may have done in the interim to bring your lights to this point” and “there is nothing else I can do for you.”

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=53692&d=1212957209

 

Unbelievably (sarcasm) Tommy had, based on a one sentence e-mailed description of the problem, been able to diagnose it as damage due to water and concluded that it is not his responsibility because I was still running the lights. This really makes no sense because the only electrical components inside the housings that would have been exposed to water are a few wires and the bulb, the ballast is taped to the outside of the housing. Since the bulb is still functioning it’s easy to rule that out in the troubleshooting process. In addition Tommy made the assumption that I had never removed the lights when in fact I did; I removed them during days of inclement weather (after all up to this point the only problem was that they leaked) and had reinstalled them for a day when no rain was forecast (in fact on June 6th it was over 100° and blue skies outside.)

 

The final offer Tommy made to remedy the situation was to send me a used set of housings. I am unwilling to accept this offer because I paid for two separate items; new housings and Infinity HID’s. Just because the HID’s quit working doesn’t mean that he can send me used housings to replace the leaky new housings I paid for.

 

My last e-mail to Tommy in an effort find resolution to this problem was on June 11th, it has gone unanswered. As I write this I can see by checking Tommy’s public profile on the forum that he is online now and has been for at least the past three hours, I am left with no option but to conclude that he is ignoring me.

 

I have made a strong effort to resolve this between us but now feel as though I will have to persue other options to get resolution, the first of which is posting this review in public forum about Tommy’s lack of customer service and low-grade product.

 

The following pictures were taken after Tommy denied all responsibility, ceased communications and left me with a $1K set of leaking and non-working headlight. I have been forced to attempt to locate the reason for the intermittently working driver side headlight myself.

 

This first picture is the driver side light, dust cap removed but otherwise exactly as it was delivered to me. As I stated earlier I suspected that the problem was simply a loose wire. I began troubleshooting this by hooking the light up to the car and lightly wiggling each individual wire, when I touched the splice just to the left of the bulb in the picture below the light went out.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00763.jpg

 

I pulled back the tape and immediately noticed that this splice/connection had not been done correctly. Not only were two different sizes of quick disconnects used but they were not insulated from each other and only held together by a few inches of electrical tape. He was wrong to think that two very different sizes of quick disconnects would make a good connection but even worse to think that electrical tape would hold them together, especially in a hot area like a headlight assembly or engine bay. The adhesive just became a sticky goo that allowed the tape to stretch out.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00770.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00788.jpg

 

I cut off the male side and crimped on two appropriately sized disconnects. Total cost: $0.67. I also added a short length of heat shrink kept them insulated from each other.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103510&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&pg=1&parentPage=family

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00776.jpg

 

While installing the above mentioned heat shrink one of the Butt Connectors came loose probably because it was also not the correct size. I replaced it with a quick disconnect, again covered in heat shrink. Total cost: $0.67

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103314&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&pg=4&parentPage=family

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00778.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC007792.jpg

 

Two red wires that connected to the projectors (probably to control the hi beams) used a combination of a flag female quick disconnect and an insulated male disconnect. These were a loose fit and did not properly insulate the connection. Again Tommy figured a few inches of electrical tape would be sufficient. I did not. The flag disconnect was replaced with the appropriate insulated female disconnect. Total cost: $0.67

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103502&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&pg=3&parentPage=family

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103497&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&pg=3&parentPage=family

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104018&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&pg=1&parentPage=family

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00777.jpg

 

Here is a quick representation of all the parts I used, it cost less than $2.00 and provided infinitely better connections. Considering Tommy is selling the most expensive LGT HID retrofits available I definitely expected a high build quality. Unfortunately that is not the case.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/Detslider/HID/DSC00785.jpg

 

The driver side headlight still does not work correctly. I’m thinking there may be an additional problem with the ballast. If this is the case Tommy should have no problem taking it back because it wouldn’t be any fault of his own, he can return it to whoever he bought it from.

 

 

Tommy, I’d still like to get resolution to this

 

 

I’ll repeat here the same options I e-mailed you that might be a satisfactory.

1. I mail them COD, you fix them and have them back to me in working order in less than 7 business days.

-or-

2. Accept them back as defective and give me a full refund.

 

At this point I would prefer a full refund, you can then fix them and sell them for the same price since they are bi-xenon.

 

Should I find resolution to this problem I’ll gladly edit or add to this post in order to reflect any professionalism and integrity you may display. You know how to contact me.

 

 

To anyone else considering purchasing lights from Tommy, as of today, I encourage you to consider other options. You can see from the above pictures that there really isn't much added performance and the customer service is non-existant.

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Well great write up and a great review. its a shame that people will screw other members over. its ok for them to take yoru money but not ok for them to give you what you paid for.

 

-10 for Mr luv and his Shitty service along with shitty work.

OTM.

Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about ;).
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I was waiting for a write-up on these. Sorry about the trouble hope all gets resolved correctly, I will def not waste my time on these.....and $1K!!! WTF!?
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? -George Carlin
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That is ridiculous! First off, he is selling them at 1K and can't even provide a good product at that cost. 2nd, terrible communication and a disinterest in resolving the problem, making you do all of the legwork. I am glad I didn't buy them.

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Wow, sorry you’re having such a bad time with your lights. I have a hard time reconciling what you’ve described in your post with my own experience. I know that there are two sides to every story and I don’t know what happened with you two, but I can say that I have had my lights since this past winter without the slightest flaw in either customer service or workmanship. And he did, actually perform the install. I went to him to have them done as I didn’t want to do it myself. But I really didn’t expect not to, in the same way I don’t expect my mechanic to come to me to fix or upgrade something. And hell, if anyone should, then the mechanic should. I paid a lot more for car itself than I did for the retro!

 

Actually, I had such a good experience that I got a set for my nephew for his birthday. He’s pretty adept at all things automotive, but didn’t want to do it himself and didn’t want to pay LightWorks prices (and I certainly wasn’t going to! LOL!). In any case, Tommy was really accommodating during that transaction. I just paid for them, but I know they went back and forth with my nephew changing his mind about options, but they were finally done and he’s thrilled with them. Tommy sent them to him in March but he drove up here from Boston in April to have him put them in and talk shop.

 

In any case, it sucks that you are having problems, but I just can’t imagine Tommy being anything but obliging. Like I said, there are two sides to every story but this has GOT to be some kind of isolated incident!

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I also hope this is an isolated incident.

I didn't expect him to deliver or install the lights until he offered. And he offered this before I made the purchase. He didn't bill me shipping charges.

These lights aren't cheap, if anything they are crazy expensive. I budgeted for these and am frustrated that I'm exceeding that budget because of his mistakes.

If you look at the people, including yourself, who he has installed lights for you'll notice they are all close to his home address. Apparently he's decided I'm not local enough.

Yes there are two sides to this story but remeber my only obligation in this deal was to pay him and tell him where to deliver the lights. I've most certainly done that and more.

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You know, Seoul_Sista is right, there are two sides to every story. I do make every effort to provide excellent customer service and I charge only what it costs for supplies and my time. I do this mostly because it is my hobby, I enjoy it. I am not turning over huge profits here folks, so if you have the idea that I'm trying to get rich on these retros you're way off base.

 

Having said that, there is a lot of misleading information in detslider's post about what happened during this transaction. For example, he paid the cost of a single Xenon retro and that's what I originally gave, and installed for him. I took it as my error for misunderstanding his desire for BiXenons and agreed to replace them. I did not adjust the price so he did get BiXeons for the price of a single Xenon retro. I made continued efforts to meet with him at a convenient location between the two of us to get the originals despite my own busy schedule. I continually tried find a way to meet with him to obtain them before he went on vacation, so that the situation could be handled sooner rather than later and while I had downtime to do something about it. When it seemed that he could not manage to meet with me, I suggested mailing them to me so that I could work on them. Due to some information brought to my attention, I definitely had no desire to meet him at his residence alone.

 

All and all, at some point I discovered that he was just someone that isn't satisfied until he gets something for nothing. And I refuse to be bullied into wasting my time just because I happen to be a nice guy. I do not know what he did to his lights in the interim to render them unworkable, and it is true that I have reason to distrust that his statements are forthright, but despite that, I did offer to fix them for him when he said that he noticed slight condensation. Having already established that he has been uncooperative about meeting up, this time was no exception. So, I suggested he take them out, place desiccants (http://www.hidplanet.com/silica.html) in them, and send them to me quickly to avoid further damage. And lo and behold, he chose to beat around bush, until they were suddenly, according to him, "completely defective" (albeit after much rain and a drive to a Hampton Roads meet the next day).

 

After wising up to what he was after, and in my desire is to sever ties with him, I offered him a set of OEM light to honor my own integrity and assure myself that I was doing what I could yes they were used and not for more then 96 hrs on the road. You can't buy a pair of shoes, wear them around in the mud, and then take them back to the store saying that they're defective.

 

The condition in which I gave the lights to him is not the condition that he currently describes. My customers have been satisfied with the quality of their retros and the quality of my customer service with this exception. This is evidenced by my good history on these forums since 2004. As for his history, well, anyone who chose to google both his real name and Oregon would see that his version of a story is not always in keeping with what really happened…

Mr.350
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As for his history, well, anyone who chose to google both his real name and Oregon would see that his version of a story is not always in keeping with what really happened…

 

I recommend this as well. Its kinda scary actually. :eek:

 

There is a LOT more than meets the eye. There are plenty of people on this forum who have had great experiences with Tommy, and I am one of them. He isn't the type of person who would screw anyone out of business.

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You know, Seoul_Sista is right, there are two sides to every story. I do make every effort to provide excellent customer service and I charge only what it costs for supplies and my time. I do this mostly because it is my hobby, I enjoy it. I am not turning over huge profits here folks, so if you have the idea that I'm trying to get rich on these retros you're way off base.

 

Having said that, there is a lot of misleading information in detslider's post about what happened during this transaction. For example, he paid the cost of a single Xenon retro and that's what I originally gave, and installed for him. I took it as my error for misunderstanding his desire for BiXenons and agreed to replace them. I did not adjust the price so he did get BiXeons for the price of a single Xenon retro. Yes you charged me the same price for bi-xenons as a single xenon but, as I stated in the past, I never asked for or expected a discount. There was no missunderstanding, and if there was I gave you plenty of opportunity to correct it. I can post the original e-mail that prove it but in short the conversation went like this: On the 26th of February you e-mailed me an invoice and said "Let me know if this is cool for you." my response was "Looks good, is this for bi-xenon?" to which you replied that same day "yea thats for bixenon I charged the RX cost but defintly gonnq do the bi's." I then sent payment the following day. So no, I never ordered, paid for or wanted single xenon HID's.

I made continued efforts to meet with him at a convenient location between the two of us to get the originals despite my own busy schedule. I continually tried find a way to meet with him to obtain them before he went on vacation, so that the situation could be handled sooner rather than later and while I had downtime to do something about it. When it seemed that he could not manage to meet with me, I suggested mailing them to me so that I could work on them. Due to some information brought to my attention, I definitely had no desire to meet him at his residence alone.

My favorite part of the above response is "despite my own busy schedule" which to me implies that your schedule is more important than my own and that you don't really have time to fix your mistakes. The locations you offered to meet at were only convenient for you. They were directly on your normal route home after work, you had even expressed that you had chosen those spots because anywhere else "at that time of day the later it gets the longer my stay in traffic will be". The locations you selected were not convenient for me, nor were the times. It would have been a 30 miles round trip detour and at least several hours in traffic for me. Hardly sounds convenient. To clarify I wasn't going on vacation, I was leaving on business, so you see I also have a busy schedule, so much so that I was working thru the weekend but as you say above you had the downtime, why not meet me somewhere near where I live if your uncomfortable in my house? You didn't suggest mailing them, you made it the only option if I was not going to meet you.

 

All and all, at some point I discovered that he was just someone that isn't satisfied until he gets something for nothing.

$1K is nothing!?!?! Most people, including myself, disagree with you.

 

And I refuse to be bullied into wasting my time just because I happen to be a nice guy. I do not know what he did to his lights in the interim to render them unworkable, and it is true that I have reason to distrust that his statements are forthright, but despite that, I did offer to fix them for him when he said that he noticed slight condensation. Having already established that he has been uncooperative about meeting up, this time was no exception. So, I suggested he take them out, place desiccants (http://www.hidplanet.com/silica.html) in them, and send them to me quickly to avoid further damage. And lo and behold, he chose to beat around bush,

I did not beat arround the bush, I made it very clear that I was not interested in investing more time and money, both of which are carefully budgeted out, because you kept making mistakes. You should be the one to bear the expense.

until they were suddenly, according to him, "completely defective" (albeit after much rain and a drive to a Hampton Roads meet the next day).

Your timeline is incorrect, again I can provide all the e-mails, PM's and text messages if needed. I'll review though.

May30th - I installed them in the afternoon.

May 31st - I text message you mid-day to let you know they are already fogging up, you reply that you are out of town and we'll talk when you get back.

June 2nd - You PM me asking for more details and suggest dessicant aka silica gel tabs. No mention of removing the lights.

June 5th - I e-mail you pics showing the lights completly filled with water, you text message back "please tell me you have taken the lights out before the storm last night". Nope I didn't, I have a busy schedule and scince it started raining about 3pm I was still at my office without a free hour to go drop the bumper and swap lights.

You e-mail me back telling me to take the lights out "ASAP" (to avoid further moisture), I did.

June 8th - There was no rain forecasted and I was going to a subie meet so I reinstalled the lights and not that it really matters, but yes it was in HR. I had no reason to believe, nor did Tommy, that this would be a problem. Up to this point the only issue was that they leaked and since it was over 100deg on the 8th, moisture wouldn't be a concern.

 

You still haven't explained how you figure moisture caused them to stop working. In my last e-mail I explained to you that from the very begining I had noticed them flickering but had not comlpletely identified the problem. Therefore this is not "further damage", as you stated to me offline, but damage that existed from the begining. I've pretty much shown that to be true in my first post.

 

 

 

After wising up to what he was after, and what is it that you think I'm after? To be clear I only want what I paid for: new non-leaking headlights with working bi-xenon HID's. and in my desire is to sever ties with him, I offered him a set of OEM light to honor my own integrity and assure myself that I was doing what I could offering me used headlights when I paid for new ones is a reflection of your integrity?yes they were used and not for more then 96 hrs on the road. You can't buy a pair of shoes, wear them around in the mud, and then take them back to the store saying that they're defective.

Nor can you send poorly constructed headlights and when the customer complains sever ties with him.

 

The condition in which I gave the lights to him is not the condition that he currently describes. So I'm a liar and the pictures I took are fake? I have neither the time or the motive. If the lights were tip top as you claim why would I say they are not and only ask that you send working lights? My customers have been satisfied with the quality of their retros and the quality of my customer service with this exception. So a history of otherwise satisfied customers allows you to overlook one unhappy one? This is evidenced by my good history on these forums since 2004. As for his history, well, anyone who chose to google both his real name and Oregon would see that his version of a story is not always in keeping with what really happened…And now you want to try and associate an unrelated matter? I know where your going and am telling you that your probably not googling hard enough beacuse the situation your referencing ending in my favor with me being called "credible" by people alot better known and respected than you.

I am only voicing complaints about the product you market and manner in which you handle your business. I have not attempted to libel you or your character, don't try those tactics on me, it only makes you look worse.

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I recommend this as well. Its kinda scary actually. :eek:

 

There is a LOT more than meets the eye. There are plenty of people on this forum who have had great experiences with Tommy, and I am one of them. He isn't the type of person who would screw anyone out of business.

 

Man I deffinetly didn't expect you to be the one feeding this. What is your motive?

There are plenty of people on several forums who have had great experiences with me, including you. See one of those iTrader ratings I have came from you. I was in your home, you even invited me to hang out for a while, gave me your business card. In your own words I'm a "super nice guy."

Did I try to screw you over? Why do you suddenly feel compelled to try and discredit my complaint?

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OKAY!!!!!!

 

Let me introduce myself.

 

Hi!! I'm Garrett another retro'er on these forums and others and someone who has done business with Mr. Luv for a few years now ~ 2+ years. In the time I have known him and done business with him I have received excellent communication, service, and respect from him and in no way have ever in all that time had one bad situation. I have traded countless parts with him and sold and or bought countless products. He brings forth an amazing work ethic and outstanding service and allthough I have never met him in person (considering I live much farther then most of you from him) I am proud to call him a friend.

 

I find these alligations against his business to be reckless slander from someone who has caused error to his own demise.

 

I know that common sense doesn't always enter many people's minds and it has shown in your situation as you did not remove the lights and return them right away for repair.

 

I think if we put this into another perspective it might be easier for others to see that infact your errors and arrogance in the end is what caused your problems.

 

So just for the hell of it lets just say you have a tire and that tire gets a nail in it and thus has a slow leak. You decide that since its just a slow leak you are going to keep driving but as the air continues to get lower and lower the nail then punctures through the sidewall and that tire now must be replaced.

 

Now is it right for the tire company to replace the tire due to your own negligence?

 

I'm sure we can all agree that due to users error the tire was made inoperable.

 

If anyone has any concerns with Mr. Luv or myself please feel free to post as I have plenty of free time to respond :D.

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This is a public forum and I recognize your right to post your review. Naturally, I have posted my side. I am making no attempt to slander you or your character. I have indicated why I doubt your credibility. There are no "tactics" involved. Your behavior and your actions are yours and yours alone. Though you seem to thrive on confrontation and discontent, I am not obligated to participate; therefore I will not be going line by line rebutting each of your statements and continuing this indefinitely. And as I've stated to you directly though our correspondence, I refuse to carry out this dance with you. I have handled this transaction professionally and have done what I can. You will consistently find something to complain about and consistently attempt to find someone to point the finger at to excuse your behavior and I will not be engaged. This is the last response that I will make to this post as we have already been back and forth long enough.

 

To All: This was his review and I have responded to it. If anyone has any further questions about retros and/or my work. Please feel free to contact me directly.

Mr.350
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