Cobb Tuning-2007 LGT Spec.b vs 2006 LGT spec.b

I've been following this forum for a little while now that I'm pretty sure I want to buy a 2007 Legacy GT Spec.b. Just FYI, you guys are really helpful. If I am to get an LGT Spec.b, I would like to do some standard power upgrades such as using a Stage 1 Cobb map or even go stage 2 with just a downpipe.

 

The problem? Has anyone looked at the (Cobb AP) power increase for the 2005 LGT vs the 2007 LGT? It's...insane. I'll provide you guys with some links so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. (Summary below)

 

All the links and results below are for a manual car tuned by Cobb for 91 Octane.

 

1. Link to Cobb Stage 2 for a 2005 LGT

http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/05%20LGTM/Map%20Notes/Stage2%2091%20MTv116.pdf

 

2. Link to Cobb Stage 2 for 2007 LGT

http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/07%20LGTM/Map%20Notes/Stage2%2091%20MTv103.pdf

 

3. Link for the dyno graph for the 2007 LGT Spec.b (just cover all bases)

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/images/Spec%20Bchart1%283%29.swf

 

I'll summarize the problem:

 

Power gains for 2005 LGT Stage 2: 300hp (+20%) and 345 lb-ft (+38%)

Power gains for 2007 LGT Stage 2: ____ (+6%) and _______ (+19%)

 

I don't give the numerical horsepower and torque figures because Cobb doesn't either, and I'm not sure if they're measuring it with 250hp or the revised 243hp/241lb-ft. (Not that it really matters...)

 

However, there is a 2nd reason I did not give numerical figures for 2007. It's because when I called and asked Cobb why the 2005 Stage 2 LGT put out so much more power than the 2007, the rep. told me that the 2007 LGT put out more power to begin with (stock), so Cobb could not make the same kind of gains for 2007 as 2005.

 

Upon hearing this, I checked the stock dyno chart Cobb posted for the 2007 LGT Spec.b to look for a stock hp figure (the 2007 LGT Map only shows % gained...not base hp). What did I find? the 2007 LGT Spec.b puts out the SAME amount of power as any other LGT they dyno'd.

 

So, this leaves me saying wtf? Why does the 2007 stage 1 and 2 suck:mad:, and the 2005 stage 1 and 2 rule?

 

Hope this wasn't too confusing and sorry about the endless post. I just wanted to be as specific as possible. I really look forward to hearing from you guys. You all seem to be on top of things in the Legacy world.

why don't you just buy it, mod it, and enjoy it rather than crunching numbers that have nothing to do with your overall satisfaction with the output of a car/engine whose potential you have not experienced yet?

 

in short, the car is pretty formidable in stock form and even more fun when modded. numbers be damned.

i guess i'm more curious to know...well, haha, i'm actually kind of anxious. i just want to get to the bottom of it because it doesn't make any sense (to me). I've read the other threads talking about how people think the 07 may put out more hp due to a catless UP and different turbo and ecu. But Cobb's information contradicts that.

 

 

And honestly, the numbers do matter to me...

if numbers matter to you, then you don't want an AWD car.

i do...i want an awd car (bc i spend a lot of time in PA) that's also reliable, practical, grownup, powerful, with good handling. lgt-b satisfies all of those. i'm not looking to set records with this car. i just noticed something that was out of place, and i'm looking for an answer.

Yes, i know i seem a little obsessive, but i'm out of work until next thursday so i decided to do some research on my tentative next car...

obsessive? yes. beneficial towards your buying decision? no.

If you plan on keeping it stock the 07-08 will edge out the 05-06 powerwise. However the gearing is longer. But after mods it all really is in fact a wash. Actually to this day I have yet to run across a modified 07-08 that made as much power as my 06' and another 05' that I have tuned, on the stock turbo.

Infamous, is there evidence of the 07-08 consistently beating the 05-06 powerwise, in stock form?

 

as I noted, cobb's (using the same dyno-according to its website at least) figures lead me to believe that both years make the same power in stock form, but as you said, very different power after modifications. the spec.b link i posted shows stock power for 07, and from what i can tell, it's the same as any other year...

 

So my question: Why doesn't an 07 make the same kind of power as pre 07 with tuning and/or dp?

^ its simple.

 

05-06 had a cat in the up pipe which restricted some flow to the turbo. Also the stock tune was pretty mild. And no SI drive.

 

07-08 the cat in the up pipe is gone (finally) which allows for a little more power/spool. Mild change to turbo internals...no evidence this change really did that much. The big difference is SI drive. Subaru finally saw what was going on in the aftermarket with tuning, so they built some in. The sport and sport sharp give you a nice little bump making it closer to 05-06 cobb "stage 1" levels which is just a tuning change. Once you hit stage two...adding parts the model years even out.

 

Hope that helps.

Han'sGT, Thanks for the response.

 

I understand the differences among those years, and I understand why 07 and up should make more power in stock form. But, from what I can tell from the graphs provided by Cobb, there's no difference...

 

Compare links 1 and 3 I provided above and look at the stock whp numbers. The graph for 3 kind of sucks, but you'll get the gist of it.

I read somewhere that 05-06 responds better to tuning. Maybe this is because of the air pump that comes with 07+ models.

Han'sGT, Thanks for the response.

 

I understand the differences among those years, and I understand why 07 and up should make more power in stock form. But, from what I can tell from the graphs provided by Cobb, there's no difference...

 

Compare links 1 and 3 I provided above and look at the stock whp numbers. The graph for 3 kind of sucks, but you'll get the gist of it.

 

Doesn't make sense. Seen plenty of stock '07-08's making more power in stock form.

Really? Weird...have you seen actual dyno results? Or is this all anecdotal evidence?

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I feel the power difference is from the slightly higher boost the 07-08 generally see. I haven't seen a complete stock rom but from what I remeber they call for a tad bit more boost higher up in the rpms which will create more hp.

...The big difference is SI drive. Subaru finally saw what was going on in the aftermarket with tuning' date=' so they built some in. The sport and sport sharp give you a nice little bump making it closer to 05-06 cobb "stage 1" levels which is just a tuning change.[/quote']

 

This is wrong. The SI drive only retimes the electronic throttle response. It makes the car feel a little more responsive but does absolutely nothing to the tuning of the engine. The S mode is the same as the 05-06 models. The S# mode makes the throttle open quicker and sooner than the S mode (WOT at ~60% peddal travel). The I mode is a restrictive mode which does not allow for WOT and increases gas mileage (supposedly).

^ anything that changes the throttle response is "tuning" of the cars ECM yes?

Really? Weird...have you seen actual dyno results? Or is this all anecdotal evidence?

 

I don't recall the actual numbers. But generally the later model cars have higher dyno numbers stock. It's not giant, but higher.

I'd like to take your word for it, but i feel like those cobb graphs keep tapping me on the shoulder lol

I just re-flashed my '08 spec.B to Stage2 91 and the difference was marginal if that. Granted I have only about 10 mins drive time and 7 miles since the reflash so I can't comment on the change 100% yet... but when I re-flashed my '06 STI the difference was night and day

They do dyno higher stock, just search around you will find the graphs.

^ +1

 

the search button is your friend.

haha alright, i'll do some searching on the forum

 

jvcjbl, thanks for the response...who did you use for the tuning? Cobb?

 

I'm wondering if a custom tune would be worth throwing money at. From other threads i've read, it seems like it is. YES!

I just re-flashed my '08 spec.B to Stage2 91 and the difference was marginal if that. Granted I have only about 10 mins drive time and 7 miles since the reflash so I can't comment on the change 100% yet... but when I re-flashed my '06 STI the difference was night and day

 

Re-flashed from stock to stage 2 or stage 1 to stage 2?

 

Keep us posted on how it is after a bit more drive time.

haha alright, i'll do some searching on the forum

 

jvcjbl, thanks for the response...who did you use for the tuning? Cobb?

 

I'm wondering if a custom tune would be worth throwing money at. From other threads i've read, it seems like it is. YES!

 

It is just an OTS map...

 

Re-flashed from stock to stage 2 or stage 1 to stage 2?

 

Keep us posted on how it is after a bit more drive time.

 

I flashed from stock to stage2 91.. Yeah I will... work is like 12 miles one way... majority of freeway... so I will get some miles in ASAP... FWIW my car only has 6k on it...