Clutch Replacement, OEM or Aftermarket?

Hi all, I've been searching around for the past few weeks on this site as well as other Subaru specific forums and I haven't found anything definitive. Does anyone know if the aftermarket Exedy flywheel (P/N FWSBL02FF) is worth my time or should I go OEM here? I'm going to replace my clutch in the space of about four days so machining my existing one, if it's still in good enough shape, isn't really something I'm considering. Also I saw mention that the flywheel in 2.5i's is some kind of "sprung" two-piece design (but not a dual-mass flywheel), is this true, is it worth while/cost effective to change to a solid-type flywheel? I'm also interested in the KSB04 Exedy clutch kit but I've found mixed reviews for this so here again I'll just go OEM if it's that much better. Finally who is a good vendor to get the TSK1 throw-out bearing and sleeve kit from? TOB noise during cold weather is the only reason I'm even doing a clutch replacement in the first place. It's been squealing for three years, only during cold weather, but I figure I don't want to push my luck any further given the pictures of destroyed trans cases floating around. I suppose I could do only the TOB but if I'm going in deep I might as well do it all. The clutch grabs fine and shows no signs of slipping but at 145k I don't know how much life is really left and I don't know how the car was treating until 112k when I bought it used. I appreciate any insight.

Being a 06+ 5MT you have a single mass fw, solid one piece. The sprung attributes pertain to the clutch disc itself (sprung vs unsprung).

 

Here is my parts list for my recent (Jan 2017) clutch job on my 08 2.5i:

 

-Exedy KSB04 kit (OEM)

-Exedy FWSBL02FF (OEM 06+ 5MT)

-4 Quarts of Motul Gear 300 75w90

-OEM Rear main oil seal

 

Optional parts that are easy while doing this job:

-OEM front and rear shift bushings

-OEM Transmission mount

-Trunion if your linkage is sloppy (the coupling the connects the linkage to the shift forks)

-Center diff andor transfer gear bearings if they are noisy

 

You could substitute Sachs for Exedy as both are equally OEM quality and save a few $$$. I rode my OEM clutch for 151K miles before replacing it and even then it had just started slipping on long hills in 5th gear under load(think interstate highway cruising in 5th and you're pulling a long hill).

 

You dont need the TSK1 unless your TOB failed and chewed up the input shaft, cold weather whining is typical once the clutch wears to a thickness that causes the TOB travel further to engage/disengage the PP. As long as you replace it prior to total failure, there wont be an issue.

 

Be safe replace it all and that way you know your baseline operational condition and wont have to worry Dont forget to grease the ball and fork

Thank you GEE OTTO. My thought process on the TSK1 kit is that maybe it's more durable than the original style but it seems that our N/A cars simply don't have the failure rate that the turbo cars do so I'll just throw in an OEM TOB and be done with it. The cold weather squealing happens for about the first 15-20min of driving after a cold start but then goes away. I also have to replace the flexible hydraulic line that goes between the slave cylinder and the master cylinder, I noticed last weekend during an oil change that it's "sweating" brake fluid along it's whole length. There's also an oil leak from the transmission where the shifter mechanism enters the back of the trans, I'm going to see if the parts dept at my local dealer can find that seal on a diagram, I didn't have any luck looking at the diagrams online myself.

When you replace that line do it after the clutch job, I say that because sometimes replacing too many items at once makes it tough to diagnose any single issue as a result of replacing the cltuch pack. By that make sure the current configuration will operate your new clutch properly then while everything is back together replace the hose and bleed it.

 

That linkage seal is part of the master seal kit for the gearbox the parts guy should be able to single you out one.

 

When pulling that seal use a dry wall screw, screw into it then pull the seal using the screw and tap it back with a similar sized socket (if possible) same for the rear main except use a short block of wood and tap evenly rotating the block 45 or 90eg every few taps until flush with the crank

Ended up getting the Exedy parts along with some OEM stuff such as the axle seals, the transmission shift seal, the clutch line, the clips, etc. Good point on the clutch line, I will replace that after I'm 100% sure everything went back together correctly and the car drives okay. Maybe I missed it when ordering the Exedy flywheel but it comes with new bolts in the box that have normal heads on them, just an fyi for anyone else looking to do this.

Is there supposed to be some kind of alignment mark or "zero" mark on the KSB04 pressure plate? I looked all over mine and found nothing. There are three painted white teeth on the new flywheel, but with no marks on the pressure plate I can't see any specific way to orient it on the flywheel.

There is not specific clocking for the FW just make sure to put it on clamping side out. The clutch pack will only align one way also so no guess work there either.

Two reasons I'm wondering, one is because this FSM scan I got from elsewhere mentions: "When installing a new clutch cover and flywheel, position the clutch cover in order to make the gap between “0” marks of flywheel and clutch cover 120° or more", two is because I got the car all put back together last Sunday and immediately on start up I got a vibration that wouldn't go away. The vibration was rpm-dependent, as in it got worse with more rpm, and was there regardless if I was idling in neutral or driving along in first gear. I was afraid to go drive any further with it vibrating like that so I didn't go beyond the driveway. Clutch engagement was also very rough with much chattering. At first I thought that maybe the flywheel was somehow loose despite me triple-checking each bolt because that's how bad this vibration felt. However I got the car taken apart yesterday and I found no installation errors what-so-ever. Looking at the pressure plate today on my bench I found a stamped dot which I believe to be the zero mark, further more the old pressure plate I took out has a paint mark on it along with the painted white teeth on the flywheel. The old clutch parts look to be OEM from the dealer if not the actual original parts to the car. I would upload photos of all this but I keep getting an error. Kicker is that orienting the dot on the pressure plate "120° or more" is exactly how I had originally installed it because it seemed to fit over the dowels easiest that way, in which I got a mean vibration as if something is badly out of balance, but it also fits onto the flywheel in two different clock positions regardless. I'm wondering now if I should try to get in touch with Exedy about potentially faulty part(s) but I don't know if it's the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, or some combination of the three. Be great now If I could just get a full refund and go buy OEM parts from a dealer but I'm well outside of the return window with RockAuto. Apologies for the long rambling post

MSA5T0505A54033 clutch disc and cover removal.pdf

how did you draw the bellhouseing together?

Transmission went back on fine until the point it got to the dowel pins, which are fitting so tightly that I couldn't push trans onto them, so I used the bolts to get it that last bit onto the dowel pins. I figured if it was on that far everything was probably lined up okay. You think I might have damaged something and caused the vibration? I looked over the parts very closely on tear-down and I see no damage.

Sorry for the delay I should have added that for the FW you just rotate it to the clock marks if any. On the three jobs ive done and seen the alignment pin in the FW (two Exedy on Sachs) locate the pressure plate correctly to the FW then use the alignment tool to insert the disc (correct side out and per the alignment marks) then install and torque down the pressure plate per the torquing sequence.

 

On my Legacy i could see the fins grabbing as I torqued each and by the end they were all parallel to each other. Also make sure you torqued the FW down to 55lbs each in the cross pattern.

 

If you are sure the FW, Clutch and PP are tight and torqued then mate the two. If it binds once the splines are engage your level is. My first go round we used a piece of plywood on a scissor jack to lift it and the tail was hanging slightly lower than the bell housing. It would engage but be super tight when trying to bolt it up, stopped pulled it all out did it again with two sets of hands hold and pressing the whole gear box into the clutch and almost flush to the block, hence the trans jack rental the next time around:)

 

 

 

If you have the transmission what are you using to hold the transmission while drawing it back together? I rented a trans jack for that very reason as i could secure and pitch it (if needed) to mate it. Make sure you center the disc prior to tightening the PP bolts

Not a problem I really appreciate the advice . I purchased the 800lb trans jack from Harbor Freight, I'm using a ratchet strap to hold it on instead of the crappy chain it comes with. The tilt adjusts allow me to get the trans in almost any position. So your bell housing dowel pins didn't fit really tight? When I took the trans back off after having the vibration I still had to lever it off the dowels with a pry bar even though it was literally just off the day before and I had anti-seize on them too. One thing I noted when installing the clutch the first time is that the pressure plate didn't seem to fit well onto the FW dowel pins, so it bulged a small bit over the dowels (couldn't help but notice the Exedy FW only has two dowels where the original FW I took out has three). Clocking the PP all around didn't yield a better fit either. Closer inspection of the new PP (after taking the trans back out) reveals poorly deburred dowel holes compared to the original PP, which fits much more nicely onto the dowels of the new FW and I can't feel any burs on the original PP dowel holes. FW was definitely torqued correctly and was fully seated to the crank, the PP was tightened with the alignment tool in place, both were tightened in a star pattern. I suppose I could try cleaning the dowels off with some emery cloth, they do have some light rusting. What I'll do now is debur the dowel holes on the PP with a small needle file by hand and try putting the clutch in again. Just thinking out loud here but I feel like the PP bulging a bit on the dowels could have caused the whole PP to deflect enough causing the actual plate to wobble rather than run straight. Overall I'm not impressed with the "look and feel" quality of the new clutch kit compared with what I took out which I'm pretty certain is the same as the actual parts sold by Subaru dealers (if not original to the car). No doubt there is mark-up on the OEM dealer clutch parts but it also looks like part of the extra cost is better finishing and QC. I would really like to make the kit I already have work though rather than drop $600 plus in addition to what I already spent on the Exedy "oem" kit.

I think you might need to replace that kit and what is the Flywheel part number that you ordered?

 

If you want to swap it out go for the Sachs variant FW, Clutch and PP they are of equal quality to Exedy and a OEM supplier to Subaru (my 09 LGT had a Sachs OEM and my 08 2.5i) I would have bought Sachs for my recent replacement on my 2.5i but the FWs were out of stock

 

But I do recall having engagement jutters which I was told was "the new FW and clutch breaking in" I too had exedy parts and the new owner also mentioned the same issue after he installed a new engine in the car.

 

Now im wondering: while he P/N that Exedy lists for our model hasnt changed did a slight change occur that they did not deem "impactful"

OEM will last longer and feel way better. If it is going to be your forever car then it's worth it.

FW part number as received is FWSBL02FF. I agree at this point with RumbleRumble that OEM is probably the better way, I wonder though if the FW actually has a problem or if I could get away with an OEM disk and PP on the aftermarket FW? GEE-OTTO do you remember if the one you got only had two dowel pins? This isn't my first rodeo with clutch changes but is the first time I've had difficulty with aftermarket clutch parts. I mean Exedy is a good name, it's not like I went and got some white-box garbage from a chain autoparts store, at least there it wouldn't be a surprise that the car drives like crap after. I called some area machine shops and although they can resurface flywheels neither of them have a way to check the balance on a FW (or so they say ). I know I should just bite the bullet and get the works from the dealer but $350 for a FW alone is darn steep.

I cant recall the number of dowels my replacement had but the shop showed me the install and didnt mention any fitment issues.

OEM will last longer and feel way better. If it is going to be your forever car then it's worth it.

 

Ha this is funny, OEM last longer. I have had Clutch master clutches, ACT clutched and so one last 100K miles with no problems. It depends on how you drive. If your a crappy driver then it does not matter what you install, it will not last.

I would have did a CM FX100 kit. You would have thought you were driving a stock 2.5i. I have ran these in many cars. Solid kits if you got some decent pockets.

Happy to report that I got my car back on the road Sunday afternoon . The problem was indeed the pressure plate not fitting onto the flywheel dowel pins properly. What I did was I deburred the PP dowel holes with a small needle file, then I used a small plastic dead-blow hammer to gently tap on the flange of the PP around the dowel pins during installation (probably what made the most difference). Followed the idle-learn procedure, no vibration at idle like I had before however I still had the engagement shudder but this mostly went away after a 20-mile residential drive. The drive to/from work today was uneventful as well, thank you to everyone that commented. Now to do all the other crap, like the inner CV boots, and the rear shocks, and the rear wheel bearing, and the clutch line, and, and......

Nice to hear and glad your shudder is dissipating! I still wonder if my old 08 still has the shudder with the new owner....