Car quit- Timing belt?

Hello Gentleman!

Wanted to ask for a little help and for your reccomendations.

The Car: '98 Subaru Legacy. EJ22. 208,000 miles. Just bought at 202,000 miles. Car runs/ran good.

The problem: Driving down the highway the other night, the car all of a sudden seems to sputter, I push the gas to see if it'll run strong again, no power. I coast to the side of the road. No check engine light if I remember correctly, temp ok. Car dies on the side of the road. all of this happens within a minute or less. Try to start the car- starts, but barely idles and won't rev up. Like on an older vehicle if the timing is way off. Car dies again.

Troubleshooting: On the side of the highway I check to make sure it has spark. Only check one cylinder, but good, strong spark. Check to make sure it's getting fuel- getting fuel to the filter under the hood and then into the hard lines before the injectors. Disconnect the battery, let it sit 10 minutes unhooked, hook it up again, try to start it, won't start. Turns over fine. (If it's indeed the timing belt, probably should not have tried to start it again, but didn't think about that at the time.) I didn't notice any weird sounds when I was turning it over.

Questions:

• Should I get a scanner and see if there are any codes? (I need a scanner for an OBDII port right?) Can I rent one from checker, autozone, or etc?
  
• Does it sound like a timing belt to you guys? I have no idea when it was changed last, I was going to do it soon, but probably should have done it sooner.
  
• Is there anyway to tell if it is the timing belt without just tearing into it?
  
• IS this a good timing belt kit: Mizumo auto kit on ebay with water pump etc. Is that a good price? Is there a vendor on here I should look at instead?
  
• Is there anything else that I should replace while I am in there that is not in the kit?
  
• What gaskets in the kit should I replace with OEM? Maybe the water pump?
  
• How likely is it that I have done damage to the valves? Or should I just replace the belt etc and see if I can run it? (Seems like it is less likely to have done damage on an EJ22 than if I had a 2.5 liter)
  
• Any links to a good writeup with lots of pictures? I am a very visual sort of guy... I've read one writeup on here that was linked from a different site.... a site with beer in the name if I remember right... Anyone have a link to that or another?
  

I really appreciate any and all input! I have been searching the site as best as I can, and learning lots, but put this into a thread because I really need to get my daily driver running again this weekend or at least asap- also figure having the newest- and most updated- info, to the above questions, in one thread might not be a bad thing.

Thanks again for your help!

I have no idea what is wrong, but you can take off part of the timing belt cover and look at it pretty easily.

Here is the beergarage timing belt write up: http://beergarage.com/SubyTBelt.aspx

Here is a write up from this site, it's for a 2.5 but still usefull: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/replacing-cam-crank-seals-w-full-timing-belt-replacement-126988.html

If you replace your timing belt, replace both of your camshaft support o-rings too. I got my two o-rings from the dealer for about $10. (part no.806946030) Beergarage link: http://beergarage.com/SubyCam.aspx

It is a good idea to change your hydraulic timing belt tensioner, since they usually fail before the belt does. But it is your call. When you compress your existing one for re-installation, look for any weeping around the piston. Just compress it according to directions, and be careful. They are $120 or so new. Check subarupartsforyou.com. I think they were around $96.

I wish that I would have changed my oil pump seal while I was doing the timing belt replacement, but I didn't know to do that until after the fact.

I used the mizumo auto kit and it seems good, all the gaskets were just fine, no need for OEMs.

If it was a timing belt breaking, your EJ22 is non interference, so your valves are more than likely just fine.

On top of the timing belt, etc. Do all the stuff recommended in the mpg sticky.

If it was a timing belt breaking, your EJ22 is non interference, so your valves are more than likely just fine.

NOPE,

starting in 97 ALL subaru ej engines are interference.

but you might get lucky, it has happened before. hang a new belt and see how / if it runs. if it feels ok, then replace everything the belt touches and all necessary oil seals. if there is any question, do a compression test and go from there.

Thanks to all for the information and links!

I'll be tearing into the car sometime tomorrow hopefully, and will try to post my findings for others reference.

Any thoughts on the code scanner? Is it right that it would be an OBDII scanner? And where is the best place is to rent one?

Thanks again and keep it coming!

NOPE, starting in 97 ALL subaru ej engines are interference.

Thanks john for enlightening me!

The engine in my 95 an EJ22E. What is the engine type for a 2.2 in 97?

Doesn't sound like a broken timing belt. Maybe jumped timing but no likely. I would look at fuel delivery as the culprit.

 

If some kind of sensor failed then there should be a code stored....so hook up a code reader to it first. But I would venture to guess fuel pump

You think fuel even though I had fuel to the filter and also just prior to the injectors? Hmmm. My first thought too, but I checked on the side of the road and was ok as mentioned in initial post.

Yes cause the fuel filter may be clogged....bad fuel injector....or the fuel pump may not be putting out enough PSI

But I am getting fuel after the filter... Lots of it!

And no codes...

So what would you do now?

Check the fuel pressure with a gauge. Just because fuel is coming out doesn't mean that it has enough pressure behind it. Fuel injected engines require high fuel pressure. A pump can fail...but still spit out fuel....just not enough

 

Does your check engine light come on when you turn the key on but not start?

When I turn my key to on, yes- the check engine light is on as well as the oil pressure light and brake light. But that's what it always does I'm pretty sure. Am I wrong?

I went ahead and tried to start it today. It did start for and run for about 30 seconds. Maybe less. But wouldn't again after that.

Those lights are suppose to come on. I asked about the check engine specifically to make sure your ECU was getting power.

 

The fact that it started again rules out a broken timing belt.

 

I still stick by my original statement. Fuel delivery or mass air flow sensor. Keep guessing other thing and chasing ghosts if you want to waste your time.

Not planning on wasting my time...

So an inline fuel pressure gauge you think? Where would you put it? What should my fuel pressure be? Where would you recommend looking for an inline gauge? Or will the autozone etc stores have one that'll work. Don't want to spend a ton of money on it.

How about checking the MAF? How would I do that? I'm much more experienced with older rigs, so forgive me if that is dumb question!

I would agree that it's not a broken timing belt, but what about skipped timing? Isn't that a possibility?

Double check your air hoses. Especially the large one that goes up into the air box.

The engine in my 95 an EJ22E. What is the engine type for a 2.2 in 97?

No engine type, just date of manufacture. A 99 IOB of mine still has the ej22e engine.

O.

If Subaru made such nice non interference engines like my EJ22, why change to an interference engine? Do you get more power? I have tried to find this answer out on my own but maybe someone can explain it. A simple question is why not just make all engines non interference?

Are EJ22Ts non interference?

I found this on a quick Google search:

Valves open further in an interference engine and project further into the combustion chamber than in a 'free-running' engine. This allows outside air at atmospheric pressure flow faster into the combustion chamber through the larger valve opening. The engine can therefore inhale more air, be a little smaller, and still create as much power while reducing its manufactured cost and also guaranteeing future repair business for its dealer. If a rubber timing belt breaks by not being replaced soon enough, some of the valves stuck in their open position will collide with the top of the pistons, thereby breaking or irreversibly damaging one or the other or both. To make matters worse, it is not possible to measure the wear on such a rubber belt so that it could be replaced when there is some indication of imminent failure. Failure in these belts is catastrophic, without warning. This will require a whole new engine be installed. Woe to the owner. Finally, the rubber belt may have to be replaced long before 60,000 miles solely due to its age. This is really playing a bad poker hand. Interference engines are like a time bomb waiting to explode unless replacing the timing belt at the recommended interval.

let's not hijack the thread, let the OP get an answer to his issue.

Look at the output of the EJ series and any other engine and you'll see why interference.

O.

So I finally got the gumption to push the car the 20' into the garage tonight...

Troubleshooting update:

• Checked to make sure there were no blockages in the airway, there weren't.
  
• Haven't had time to go to autozone to get a loaner fuel pressure guage, but really don't think that's the problem since, as I posted in the opening thread, I have great fuel flow both pre-and post-fuel filter.
  
• Pulled inspection covers off of timing belt and this is what I found:
  

Running on borrowed time there!

As suggested change the T belt, idlers,tensioner, water pump, and check the screws on the back of the oil pump.

To check operation. Line up the timing marks(hash marks not arrows)before removing old and just hang the new belt and start. If it runs ok, then remove and replace the rest of the stuff.

A fsm is available online.

I've used theimportexperts on ebay, with good results and prices.

O.

I have not had a chance to get back in here to update this thread, but I changed the timing belt two weeks ago and the car fired right up!

The worn timing belt had allowed the timing to skip about five teeth on the belt so the timing was off- hence the reason that it would sometimes start, but not run well. I thank God that the belt did not break comepletly because, as mentioned earlier, all Suby engines 96-newer are interference type engines.

Changing the belt really is pretty easy for anyone who is at all mechanically inclined. I took a bunch of pictures and hope to add them (and a few thoughts that I don't think are covered all in one writeup elsewhere) soon. However, it'll be a little while as I am working full time and putting together an engine for my LandCruiser at night.

Just want to say "Thanks!" to the folks who contributed helpful advice and links in this thread!

You are one lucky person!

Glad it was an easy fix!