chiefbluefeather Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Apologies if I'm posting in the wrong spot -- but I figured I might be able to get some help to a messed up situation. I've got a 95 Legacy L 4WD Wagon with 230,000 miles on it. My folks were the original owners but I've had it for about 5 years now and the car has been bomber -- rock solid reliable. I treat it well and it has never let me down. It's so reliable, I just put new Michelin's on it because it was going to hit 300,000 miles easy. Anyhow, I had to get it smogged in order to register it this year so I brought it to the licensed Smog Check Test Only station yesterday, gave the guy the key and he told me it would be ready in 15 mins. About ten minutes later he comes over with a confused look on his face. "Your car keeps dying," he says, "I can't finish the test." It's then that I notice the front wheels are sitting on the dyno (not spinning at the time.) Sure enough, I fire up the car and it won't stay running when in neutral. As soon as I release the clutch the engine dies and the stick shift feels like it has seized. I can't move the shifter very easily, whereas before I brought it in it was smooth. At the time, I didn't have any idea what happened, but I know the guy fucked it up some how. It starts to dawn on me -- I'm guessing he didn't know it was a 4wd. After a couple minutes, I have him push it while I'm in it and I'm able to get it out of the service bay. He tries to play it like "oops, too bad you have an old car, I guess it just fell apart." I was pissed, but tried to keep my cool. I told the guy I thought he was responsible for the damage and that I'd be back. I ended up getting the car towed to my reliable Subaru mechanic in SF (123 Auto on 1st/Harrison) and by the time it got there, everything seemed back to normal -- I could get it into gear and drive it. I explained what happend and my Subaru guy said that if the guy put in on a dyno, the differential overheated and locked up. When it cooled off, things went back to normal. I drove it home and it felt okay, but today I took it on a 100 mile trip and something is definitely wrong with the transmission. It doesn't shift smoothly and is making some fishy noises. I just don't know enough about what may have happened and don't really know what to do. The car runs, but I feel like it's a ticking time bomb ready to fail. I got the Smog Guy's info and told him I'd be back, but if anyone has any info out there as to what damage may have been done I'm all ears. 4WD gone? Differential needs replacing? Anyhow, it's a serious bummer -- my first child is due this week and I was just getting the car dialed out so it was safe to drive him around in. I guess I have to lawyer up and stick it to the Smog Check station? I'm kicking myself that I didn't mention it was 4wd before I gave it to the guy, but damn he should have known. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Sorry to hear that, We had a similar story a year or so ago. The guy did the damage and should have it fixed. I would have your shop that looked at the car write you an estimate and take it to the location that did your smog check and tell them they need to pay for it. Try to find someone higher up at the place that did the test. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 13, 2011 I Donated Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm a certified emissions inspector in Georgia. I don't know what the regulations are in CA, however I assume that testing procedures are similar. There are certain cars that are exempt from dyno testing. Subarus being one of them, since the majority of them are AWD. Any Subaru that I test BY STATE LAW must receive the Two Speed Idle test...meaning that you stick the probe in the tailpipe, and hold the engine (in neutral) at pre-determined RPMs for a certain amount of time while the emissions machine collects exhaust samples. The tester SHOULD NOT have put your car on the dyno. He is responsible to repair it, and to provide you with a loaner vehicle or a rental vehicle while yours is being repaired. He REALLY screwed up. This was just negligence. As a consumer, its not your responsibility to know what your vehicle is (most people actually have no idea if they have AWD or not). Its the emission testers responsibility to inspect the vehicle to figure out what it is. Your center diff is toast. It will need to be replaced. You need to do a few things. 1 - get a qualified subaru mechanic to diagnose the problems. having it diagnosed over the internet will not do any good. you have to have rock solid paper proof that your center diff is destroyed. 2 - Contact the governing body in CA about emissions and emissions testing. Here in GA is called the Georgia Clean Air Force, I don't know what its called in CA though. They will investigate any complaints about an emissions station. In your case, the inspector who did your car will probably lose his license, be forced to pay for damages, and have some pretty hefty fines from the state. 3 - Take a look in your owners manual for your car (if you still have it). I believe there is a section about emission testing in it that says NEVER to put the car on a dyno. As well, there is a section explaining procedures for towing your car...that explain if one axle is not spinning while the other one is, damage to the center diff will occur. If this stuff is in your owners manual, you can show this to the inspection station. I don't think you will need to obtain a lawyer. I would politly go back to the emissions station and talk with the owner / manager / inspector, or whoever with the diagnostic paper from the mechanic in hand. Explain to them that when they put your all wheel drive car on the dyno, it caused damage to the center diff, and as inspectors they are required by state law to properly test each vehicle. In your case they did not properly test it, leading to catastrophic transmission damage. Also ask to see any certifications / licenses of both the station and the inspector. take note of any numbers and names on the pages. I know in GA, these are required to be provided if a consumer asks for them...hell, they are even printed on the emissions paper that I give to the customer. After all of this, tell them that they are responsible to provide repairs for the damage that they caused...and that you have picked a qualified Subaru mechanic to perform the repairs. If they refuse to pay for the damage, or play the "your car is old and just fell apart" game...tell them that you will not hesitate to go to whatever governing body controls emissions in CA. Maybe the threat alone will make them fix the situation for you. They know they screwed up, and if you go in there uneducated they will take advantage of you. if you go in there knowing your rights, and knowing that they are responsible to provide a test that does not damage your vehicle, and to test according to state regulations, they are likely to work with you. Remember, there are VERY harsh legal punishments for emission inspectors if they do not test properly. Use this knowledge to your advantage. The state of CA is very powerful, and they will take your side on this if you go to them. Once the state gets involved, the emissions station runs a risk of being shut down and they know this. If they want to keep their business going, they will take VERY good care of you. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be as much help as I can...and I'm very sorry that you have fallen victim to someone who shouldn't be doing emission inspections. On a side note - congrats on the little one! I have two of my own, they are fun! Try to find someone higher up at the place that did the test. Most emissions stations are small and privately owned (at least where I live) with only one or two employees. He may be as high up as he can go when he talks to the inspector. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefbluefeather Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks for that detailed response broknindarkagain -- sounds like I found the right guy. The guy who did the test claimed he was the owner of the place, but he really didn't seem like he knew what the hell he was doing. I'm going get the car properly diagnosed and look into contacting the CA Smog Check. I'm hoping this guy will cover the cost of the replacement without getting lawyers/courts involved, but he seemed ready to play the my word vs his word game. The shop is pretty small and looks pretty fly-by-night. He claimed he didn't have any insurance when I told him I'd be back and that he was responsible. I just have a feeling this is going to be a long, drawn out process. Anyhow, thanks for the great info -- I'll let you know how it all works out. Cheers, CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 You need to call BAR ASAP http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/ An AWD subaru should never hit the dyno for smog http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARResources/02_SmogCheck/Engineering/AllWheel.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 13, 2011 I Donated Share Posted June 13, 2011 No problem at all. Please do keep us posted on whats going on with the situation. Like I said, I'll be of any help possible...but I only know GA regulations. I believe the phone number for CA that you need to call is (800) 952-5210. If thats not the right number, they should be able to direct you to the right place. As far as insurance goes, I think he just told you that to give you the impression that you wouldn't get anything out of him. Legally, he is required to carry insurance for the vehicles that he tests. The average policy here in GA covers up to a million dollars in damages. I'm sure CA is pretty much the same. Good new is though that you can buy a "new" transmission for fairly cheap. Locally, I can buy low mileage autos for only a few hundred bucks from the local junk yards. Book labor on transmission replacement on your car is 5.3 hours so it isn't that bad. Most shops will charge around $450 for the labor. However, if the emissions station is going to pay for the repairs.....you should demand new OEM parts, and the local Subaru dealer to perform the repairs. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefbluefeather Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 So I contacted CA BAR about a week ago and received a letter informing me that I need to send all pertinent information their way. I've got a receipt from the bungled Smog Check and am going to be getting estimates this week. Things are moving slowly because my wife and I just had our first child on 6/17 -- the same day the letter arrived from BAR. Needless to say we've been busy. The car is drivable, but it feels a little funny. I drove it for an hour or so at freeway speeds and started to have real problems getting it into gear. Tooling it around town it feels fine. Anyhow, I'm going to get it fixed -- probably swap out an old tranny instead of going the OEM route with a Subaru dealer. I'm afraid I won't get all my money back and the local Subaru dealer is known to charge inflated prices. I'm going to try and talk to the rep at BAR tomorrow -- hopefully they have some kind of fund for these botched smog jobs. Thanks again for the great help here -- I think this is all going to work out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattie Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 dude , go back and read post number 3 , it made complete sense to me , you dont have to pay for crap. reread post 3 and stick it to the smog guy and get your self a minty new transmission. congrats on the baby ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 23, 2011 I Donated Share Posted June 23, 2011 Thanks for the update on the situation. I've been wondering whats been going on with your "problem". You shouldn't have to pay for the damage. If you're patient, then the emissions station that screwed up your car will be forced into paying for it. And when that happens, why do you care how much it costs? It won't be coming out of your pocket. At that point, take it to the dealer so you can get brand new OEM parts. New is always better then used parts. Congrats on the little one! Welcome to the life of no sleep for the next year lol -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 You can likely sue the guy in small claims court (under $7,500) and win if he tries to stiff you. Small filing fee (which you can add to your damages), and each party has to represent themselves in court (no lawyers). You could get a couple shops to give you estimates saying it was the smog shop's fault, etc, etc. Also, on the auto versions of legacy's the FWD fuse is there (in part) for smog tests requiring a dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookatmyrust Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 the fwd fuse is true. and also for useing the spare tire which may be of a different size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 30, 2011 I Donated Share Posted June 30, 2011 Also, on the auto versions of legacy's the FWD fuse is there (in part) for smog tests requiring a dyno. The FWD fuse is there for diagnostic purposes, not emission testing purposes. Name at least ONE state that puts AWD cars on the dyno - and show proof of this -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookatmyrust Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 my state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkl303 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 colorado? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Colorado is one of the few states that has AWD dynos for emissions My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green98LegacyGT Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I fire up the car and it won't stay running when in neutral. As soon as I release the clutch the engine dies and the stick shift feels like it has seized. I can't move the shifter very easily, whereas before I brought it in it was smooth. Hey CBF, just ran into your post a few days ago cause my car exhibited the same problem. I'm at a wits end to what could be wrong with the car. Was just wondering if you were ever able to find out what caused the engine dying then the shifter getting locked up. I still haven't been able to get my shifter out of first and am afraid to pull on it too hard cause I don't want to bend or break anything. My car starts with the clutch pedal pressed in and the engine does make funny noise while it's running. As soon as I release the clutch pedal tho the car will die out normally (as with any car in gear) but it will not lurch forward or anything. At this point, I'm not even sure how a tow truck will be able to move the car since it's not rolling at all. I really do enjoy this car (as most subby owners do). Just hate these problems that arise. Thanks for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lojasmo Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Clearly, an AWD car should not be run on a 2wd dyno. The tech was negligent, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted July 1, 2011 I Donated Share Posted July 1, 2011 I should have clarified my post a little more. Name 1 state that 2wd dyno tests an AWD car -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 if the tech put an AWD car on a 2WD dyno, they are at fault, period. call the boss, manager. if he is not helpful tell them you next calls are to the better business bureau and the state agency that regulates the ''inspection'' you were required to have. if that does not get you any where call, a lawyer from the yellow pages who advertises ''free'' first meetings. he will either take the case or hopefully tell you how to proceed with out him. keep copies of all letters, yours and theirs; take notes of meetings and phone calls as they happen; and keep a journal of everything you do to resolve this. judges love hand written logs of phone calls and meetings. this is a $1000 repair. hopefully the shop will step up and do the right thing and you will not need to involve the legal system. talking to the state may be just what you need. losing their ability to do these inspections will cost them way more than the repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibob6 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Just to put my 2cents in, I happen to be a CA Smog Technician. and If you go through all the propoer venues (BAR and BBB) you will get your money (or transmission). They take smog VERY seriously and if BAR thinks you fucked someone over they will get you. So as long as you are honest and persistent i can almost guarantee he will be paying up. and on top of that he will personally be fined and his business will be fined probably between 5-15 thousand dollars. Just for ******* up the SMOG, not even your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted July 4, 2011 I Donated Share Posted July 4, 2011 Just to put my 2cents in, I happen to be a CA Smog Technician. and If you go through all the propoer venues (BAR and BBB) you will get your money (or transmission). They take smog VERY seriously and if BAR thinks you fucked someone over they will get you. So as long as you are honest and persistent i can almost guarantee he will be paying up. and on top of that he will personally be fined and his business will be fined probably between 5-15 thousand dollars. Just for ******* up the SMOG, not even your car. Figured this would be the case in CA -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 chiefbluefeather keep us posted. We'd all like to know how this gets resolved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted September 17, 2011 I Donated Share Posted September 17, 2011 Any update on this? How did things turn out? -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPlascencia60 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Just to put my 2cents in, I happen to be a CA Smog Technician. and If you go through all the propoer venues (BAR and BBB) you will get your money (or transmission). They take smog VERY seriously and if BAR thinks you fucked someone over they will get you. So as long as you are honest and persistent i can almost guarantee he will be paying up. and on top of that he will personally be fined and his business will be fined probably between 5-15 thousand dollars. Just for ******* up the SMOG, not even your car. True, I'm also a CA smog tech. With any vehicle! (the tech must verify before the inspection) call the BAR. Hopefully all works out for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.