AWD Rumors

:| As rumors continue to circulate about a forthcoming AWD turbo MSP 6, and even an SH-AWD TSX (1st possible turbo from Honda in decades), does anyone wonder how this will affect popularity/sales of the new Legacy. I can see it both ways; one that these cars will act as direct competitors to the Legacy and reduce sales, the other is that manufacturers are recognizing a US market exists for performance, mid-sized sedans. If the latter is the case, it would seem Subaru has beaten others to the punch, and will be offering a vehicle which will be highly competitive in both price and performance with any other car on the foreseeable horizon. Just a thought...

A good one here coolblue. I've heard of the SH-AWD TL but not the SH-AWD TSX, this is a first. The competition will be very still of all especially but at the end of the day, the auto maker with the best reliability and quality overall would emerge the winner in the market place. Of course we all know that Honda's reliability have been established in the market but the lack of AWD has pretty much taken it's toll for us enthusiasts looking for that option and hence here we are waiting patiently for the Legacy. I would definitely say that if Subaru wants to keep their fair share of the market, there should be continuous research to improve and keep up with the competition in the reliabiliy and quality including updating features in a car. My 2cts worth.

I doubt those systems will really pose too much competition per their FWD bias, however, most people just see AWD and think everythings equal. Guess everyone can't be so educated. *shrug*

Keep in mind here that I've got a lot of research to do on AWD systems... they're a little bit new to me. My 0.02 is that I place value on the established AWD systems that are *not* FWD based or biased, meaning Audi's Quattro and Subie's AWD. The Volvo Haldex, Audi TT/VW 4-motion, the 3-series, G35 and anything from Honda would probably not qualify, as they don't seem to be optimized as well as the top 2. Yes, the 3-series and G35 offer a lot of rear bias, which is nice. But they are still limited... I don't think the BMW has any limited slip in it, just brake control. Might be effective in snow, but the Quattro and Subie are going to be doing work for you without electronic intervention.

I am sure Subaru is flattered by the amount of much larger and better established competitors that are copying them, instead of the other way around. And traditionally, when you are the copyee instead of the copier, sales are usually the best of the bunch in that segment. The others will be hard-pressed to beat the power/weight ratio of the Legacy, as their systems will add weight to cars that are already as heavy or heavier than the Legacy. And since there is a FWD or RWD version of each of those cars, consumers will be faced with whether they want to pay more for a slower version purely to have AWD - or to simply buy a Legacy that comes with it as standard equipment and manages to be quite quick. Cheers, Paul Hansen

Uh yeah, what Paul said a lot simpler than I did. ;)

You just hope the American market reacts that way, unfortunately as I've seen on at least some other forums, name brand plays a huge factor, it's a BMW or Volvo or whatever so it must automatically be better! On a somewhat similar note, Hyundai has increased quality at a staggering rate in recent years and people have taken notice, but still what sells to many is big numbers like a big warranty and such. At least on this side of the pond, people really warm up to certain thought trains like names and aspects like warranties regardless of how useful they are or what they really mean. Several of the brands have hopped around in reliability and what the brands really stand for, but little has changed in perception with many buyers.

Yeah, I agree about Hyundai... a guy at work bought the "hit-by-the-ugly-stick" Santa Fe, mainly because of low cost and huge warranty. Also good calls on certain train of thought... But d@mn, I just wanna test drive a GT. :D

You want to test drive one? I wanna buy one! :D (But not before a test-drive if I can do it. ;))

Like you say, test-drive first, buy second. ;) Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I want to drive it first to ensure that I'm agreeable with my top few items... seat comfort/support, steering feel/precision, handling sharpness without punishing ride, clutch and gearbox feel. I fully suspect the GT will deliver on those... but the test drive will tell all. :D

I'll probably just end up test driving the one I order before I fully commit. My really only question lies with the front seats, but in due time that could potentially be remedied if not up to my specs. I'm pretty confidant overall though.

Where are the side airbags located? Not the curtain ones, but the sides? I'm asking because the G35 has the bags in the seats, making aftermarket replacement of the seats all but impossible... and that car needs Recaros really BAD. And yeah, I'm pretty confident too. I love the WRX, so it's hard to imagine a company that produced that getting the Legacy GT too wrong...

Was it last month's Car & Driver that did the test using an A4 FWD & Quattro and G35 & G35x? I was just reading it today and can't remember the magazine. Anyway, the system of the G35x performed the best in their tests, and part of that could be due to the good f/r weight balance. It just put on a lot of weight. The SH-AWD will be very interesting. The "SH" is essentially the same thing as was used in the Prelude SH which uses a planetary gear to speed up the outside wheel while cornering. With this being in the rear, it should give an effect similar to 4 wheel steering. It will be very fitting for the Acura TL, and I expect it will happen for 2006 even though I haven't really read anything from true sources. As for the TSX, the turbo issue is being written more as a wish list. Given the specs of the engine, they should be able to get that 2.4 engine to about 240hp natural aspirated. If the S2200 has 240hp, I see no reason why a 2.4 can't have 250hp. It would definitely need AWD.

[quote name='PPower'] As for the TSX, the turbo issue is being written more as a wish list. Given the specs of the engine, they should be able to get that 2.4 engine to about 240hp natural aspirated. If the S2200 has 240hp, I see no reason why a 2.4 can't have 250hp. It would definitely need AWD.[/quote] I agree, any talk involving Honda and a turbo seems to be a stretch. Having owned a VTEC Prelude, and seeing the HP figures they can achieve from engines such as the 2.0l in the S2000, I would confidently argue that Honda makes the best 4-cylinder NA engines. The thing is, all of that HP is derived from the RPM's the engine is able to attain. Go to most any Honda board and all you will hear them discuss is HP. Torque is the Achilles heal for Honda engines. Torque is the reason why the new S2000 w/ 240 HP has a 2.2l, rather than the original 2.0.

Yes Honda makes very nice small and large motorcycle engines... Anyway, IMO, Leg has a giant leg up so to speak. Take a look at base prices for the TL and TSX. Edmunds is showing $33,195 and $27,035 respectively. Add a turbo to the TSX (using 34% power gain like Subaru) and you have 268hp but only 222tq, on an already high strung engine. We have 210/235 (FXT), 250/250 (GT/OXT), and 300/300 (STI), all without trying very hard. The 2.5 Subaru boxer is a very bulletproof, versatile engine, and the AWD system is one of, if not the best. The only reason Honda can compete is because... Honda has the name...We get a GT limited for $29,000 ish

With companies such as Audi & Subaru being at the forefront of AWD technology, it was only going to be a matter of time before some of the larger car companies tried to cash in on the same ideas. Here is Oz, Holden better known as GMH or Chev in the States, have just launched an AWD Wagon and Sedan. The technology is far behind Mitsu, Audi and Subaru but hopefully their future developments will only push Subaru and the rest of the gang to bigger and better things......

A company here in Australia called Corsa Special Vehicles has just spent an arm and a leg getting in a new AWD dyno for Australia's first AWD car the Holden HSV Coupe4. They are talking about taking the 5.7 to maybe 6.3 which should blow Kw figures from 305 to the mid 380kw range and 600nm of twist, only if we could get figures like that out of the Scooby !